Breeding techniques

[joshuahazen]

heres a bit of info on inbreeding depression , though you guys dont believe it can happen , have a read and see for yourselves , no one is making anything up ...

Inbreeding depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the reminder Donald, I know it can happen. Its never happened to me, thankfully, but it is a very real danger, and I believe it is a real problem in Holland. Many if not most of the seed banks around are dealing with issues, which I think have a lot to do with inbreeding depression, and it is a particularly high danger in selfed plants and feminised seed. But it can happen in normal populations as well. In fact that is one of the reasons why it is so vitally important that we really listen to what Nevil says, regarding breeding, he is getting to linebreeding, and I am really excited to hear what he has to say.
It seems that MNS seeds are not experiencing many of the problems which other seed banks are experiencing and I believe that this is at least in part, due to sound breeding techniques and philosophy. Inbreeding is a tool as is outcrossing and open pollination, and they all have their uses and applications.

Inbreeding has to be tempered carefully, because inbreeding depression is a very real and prevalent danger, and caution must always be used when inbreeding. The main purpose of inbreeding is to fix positive traits, or eliminate negative traits.

Lets not forget that the prevalent theory in paleo-anthropology right now, is that all of humanity is descended from a single female, and no I am not referring to the creationists, I am referring to the single origin hypothesis, and it has recently been corroborated through DNA sequencing.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

What do you think the chances are that you actually find the two best individuals in a population and mate them? And how much time and effort do you expect to spend properly progeny testing to really make this happen? The methodology of perpetuating this species by individuals has been triumphed only by amateurs. What sense does it make to spend decades finding special individual plants when you could be making smarter more efficient selections using methods that have been proven by science? We have a community here who wants to sound authoritative but who lacks a fundamental understanding of a process like meiosis. We can't agree if corn would rather self or outcross. What's the point of spending time boxing a hurricane? I no longer wonder what happened to people like hyb, vik high, and nebu...

 

[GreenintheThumb]

In fact that is one of the reasons why it is so vitally important that we really listen to what Nevil says, regarding breeding, he is getting to linebreeding, and I am really excited to hear what he has to say.

It's important to wonder why males would show up in a selfed male, right?

It seems that MNS seeds are not experiencing many of the problems which other seed banks are experiencing and I believe that this is at least in part, due to sound breeding techniques and philosophy. Inbreeding is a tool as is outcrossing and open pollination, and they all have their uses and applications.

Oh, spending decades finding individuals that are responsible for large parts of your catalog and then losing them isn't a common problem?

Lets not forget that the prevalent theory in paleo-anthropology right now, is that all of humanity is descended from a single female, and no I am not referring to the creationists, I am referring to the single origin hypothesis, and it has recently been corroborated through DNA sequencing.

Well please, enlighten me...but really what relevance does this have to a discussion of outcrossing species of crops?

 

[Donald Mallard]

Hey mate I never said I dont believe it can happen. I am just backing Nevils theory on inbreeding, linebreeding and 1:1, proving that with good selection you will get rid of bad traits and retain the good ones without any loss of vigour, health and potency and on top of that improve the line.
I just put up proof that with old lines it is possible to have no Inbreeding Depression......What was Nevil chasing in his search for the grail.....old lines hidden in peoples vaults, because he belives that is where the answer is.

The hermie thing is interesting.....But I am not even going to go there with that one

without proper testing of the original parents and subsequent generations id say proof hasnt really been given ..
its hard to tell with ones eye and senses over many generations what has been lost unless you can compare to the original .
1:1 matings over 30 generations and no loss of anything , in fact its improving. ???

 

[Kangativa]

"And how much time and effort do you expect to spend properly progeny testing to really make this happen? "

No time and effort at all, just get a few mates and a few beers and pass the males round, bit of coughing and spluttering and its done.....the verdict is passed on which is the best male to use......Its called fun GitT, no scientific Know how needed just pure enjoyable amaturish fun and I understand for you doing that is a bit hard for you to comprehend.......but thats ok I understand you are a scientist...I think.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Sorry to post science in your rape fantasy thread. Oh wait, I posted in something called 'breeding techniques' but thanks for your contribution.

 

[hempy]

The most extreme form of inbreeding is selfing So making fem seeds is fine but 1:1 breeding is not who we trying to fool here.

The reason why most lines in the dam have gone to shit is because those working them have no clue.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

I'm hempy and I might act like I know something but my simple mind can't fathom a world where I would do anything with reversed pollen but put it back on the mom.

 

[JessE]

heres a bit of info on inbreeding depression , though you guys dont believe it can happen , have a read and see for yourselves , no one is making anything up ...

Inbreeding depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Inbreeding depression is the reduced fitness in a given population as a result of breeding of related individuals. It is often the result of a population bottleneck.

lol Golden! So now you're concerned with inbreeding depression and bottlenecking?

Originally Posted by Donald Mallard
You know looking back on that thread hempy there was some excellent information there ,, and the guys you were debating with were very patient in trying to school you up on what they were theorising about ..
I guess i could dig up the valid points on there that you dismissed ..
One has to keep an open mind hempy , when we close our minds to something we learn nothing ...

Hi Wallyduck,
What do you know about genetic bottle necking in regard to the feminized seed trend? I believe a very well respected member of the community has recently wrote on the subject, and I for one, am looking forward to reading what he has to say on the matter. So lets not start off on the wrong road with condescending and disrespectful remarks, as hempy is one of the best posters and most knowledgable growers on any cannabis forum today.

Originally Posted by Donald Mallard

I wont condone releasing female seeds as strains , i never said i would ..

The debate hempy was involved with was more about using reversal as a breeding tool , not so much about releasing female seeds to the public .

Sure id be happy to read about the bottle necking , we already know 1 on 1 matings can cause problems down the line , so using only one parent ,
well as i said i keep an open mind ...

On jesses post ,, you certainly can write , but theres not much content in your posts , some nice articulation , that s all ,
come on man ,, its not a contest on who can write best ,, put some value in your posts ... and your saying its nice that others are keeping on topic ,, sheez .

lol for somebody with not much content, you've certainly assimilated a new way of thinking havent you? (Boy does it look familiar lmao!) Not bad for a guy with not much value to his post right Donald? lol.

Well your just a crack up jesse

Yes, clearly. lol

 

[GreenintheThumb]

You're talking about value of posts? Go find a picture of irony Jesse, maybe someone will give a shit.

 

[hempy]

I'm hempy and I might act like I know something but my simple mind can't fathom a world where I would do anything with reversed pollen but put it back on the mom.

Im GreenintheThumb and i really need to start a indica detox and start 2011 with a healthy diet of sativa so i can start making friends.

Genetic Variation in an Inbred Plant: Variation in Tissue Cultures of Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill]

E. J. Roth, B. L. Frazier, N. R. Apuya and K. G. Lark
Department of Biology, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112

Although soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill] grows as an inbreeding, generally homozygous, plant, the germplasm of the species contains large amounts of genetic variation. Analysis of soybean DNA has indicated that variation of RFLP (restriction fragment length polymorphism) markers within the species usually entails only two alleles at any one locus and that mixtures of such dimorphic loci account for virtually all of the restriction fragment variation seen in soybean (G. max), and in its ancestors, G. soja and G. gracilis. We report here that tissue cultures prepared from root tissue of individual soybean plants develop RFLP allelic differences at various loci. However, these newly generated alleles are almost always the same as ones previously found and characterized in other varieties of cultivated soybean (cultivars). This repeated generation of particular alleles suggests that much of the genetic variation seen in soybean could be the consequence of specific, relatively frequently employed, recombinational events. Such a mechanism would allow inbred cultivars to generate genetic variation (in the form of alternative alleles) in a controlled manner, perhaps in response to stress.

Genetic Variation in an Inbred Plant: Variation in Tissue Cultures of Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill] -- Roth et al. 121 (2): 359 -- Genetics

 

[Ouchie]

I have a simple yet effective question. Out of the available strains for sale through MNS, which would you choose to personally breed with Neville? Say you could have us as a community work any strain with another, what would be the choice? If there is something on the seed list you haven't combined in hybrid form and worked with you would've liked to? Any one standout mix you're dying to see happen? Maybe we should look for 3-4 males from different packs, 1 from each pack of a different strain, and use them as "Studs" and work one particular line? Should I grow out a pack of SSH, and possibly a pack of Nordle and try my luck with the best male to female breeding within each other?

What would YOU do?

 

[GreenintheThumb]

I'm hempy and I'm ganna highlight some sentences in an abstract to a paper I haven't read about a species that is selfed and act like it's an argument about cannabis.

I've made friends with the right people hempy. The sort of people who shake their heads at your posts.

 

[hempy]

If i call any of you Dolly its just means i think your a cloned sheep baa baa lol.

 

[JessE]

You're talking about value of posts? Go find a picture of irony Jesse, maybe someone will give a shit.

lol You are perhaps one of the most retarded posters on this forum! In your angst to post something, anything, negative towards me...you did not even take the time to read the post you would bash!

You're a damn fool! I just pointed out Wally saying my post had no value, yet he is assimilating the information I post and now pretending like he knew about it all along and you're posting that Im complaining about someone elses value? No, you simpleton! If you had taken the time to read the post, you would have known all along it was my post being attacked for having no value! lol. So close, yet so far away Green thumb up his bum lol...

Yet I just demonstrated those who say that very thing take the value from my post and assimilate it into their idealogy. Not a problem normally, but the true Irony of both his and your situations are just too good to pass up!

lmao, wannabe...

 

[hempy]

I'm hempy and I'm ganna highlight some sentences in an abstract to a paper I haven't read about a species that is selfed and act like it's an argument about cannabis.

I've made friends with the right people hempy. The sort of people who shake their heads at your posts.

Well id call them ass holes but who am i to judge right.

I dont care what you have read or have not read you and your so called mate have this fucken attitude i find quiet irritating were you feel your selfs are above the rest of us.

How many lines did Vic breed and whos genetics did Vic use yes Neville's the same guy you lot call a hakk im so over being politically correct time i call a spade a spade an ass hole an ass hole.

Call me what ever you like reality is i as has kanga and many more growers around the boards and world grow and have grown inbreed line breed inbreed lines and saw nothing of what you so called experts claim.

 

[JessE]

I'm hempy and I'm ganna highlight some sentences in an abstract to a paper I haven't read about a species that is selfed and act like it's an argument about cannabis.

I've made friends with the right people hempy. The sort of people who shake their heads at your posts.

Lmao! Did you forget about this jewel Clown? What was that you were saying about irony...

This just in: corn is an outcrosser. And it's a great plant to look towards when thinking about cannabis breeding.

So your corn comparisons are fine, but anything else is not? Hahaha!! Let me ask you chump, do you want some more? Just let me know if you want it with my belt on or my belt off! I'll be waiting wannabe...

 

[Ronin]

Honkeys are crazy.

 

[socioecologist]

For *uck's sake guys, the haze has turned you all into egomaniacal kids. Please stop the petty bickering so those of us who are quietly listening to someone with a lot of experience (that'd be Neville) discuss his approach. Feel free to destroy the "breeding techniques" thread over at your own website in 20 years, but let's move on in this one.

 

[Donald Mallard]

lol Golden! So now you're concerned with inbreeding depression and bottlenecking?





lol for somebody with not much content, you've certainly assimilated a new way of thinking havent you? (Boy does it look familiar lmao!) Not bad for a guy with not much value to his post right Donald? lol.



Yes, clearly. lol

Ohh so everyone can have an opinion ,, cant i jesse ??
i see you spew your opinions left right and centre ..
yep i think your a crack up ,,
what has your post input to the thread ??
are you the comic relief??
so i guess your post is like an intermission .. lol ...