Breeding techniques

Donald Mallard said:
Ohh so everyone can have an opinion ,, cant i jesse ??
i see you spew your opinions left right and centre ..
yep i think your a crack up ,,
what has your post input to the thread ??
are you the comic relief??
so i guess your post is like an intermission .. lol ...
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Translation: I got the point JessE. Good! ;)

So lets get the story straight, you told hempy he knew nothing in relation to why he was against Fem Seeds. I posted and asked you if you knew about bottle necking and you admitted no. Then you go on to say there is no content in my post. Only later to assimilate my post and info as your own lol. And when called out on it, you get nasty...clearly defensive. Essentially an admission of guilt.:cool:

Im glad I taught you something Wally. Class will convene tomorrow at the same time, same place. Be there, or be square....;)
 
JessE said:
Lmao! :D :D Did you forget about this jewel Clown? What was that you were saying about irony...



So your corn comparisons are fine, but anything else is not? Hahaha!! Let me ask you chump, do you want some more? Just let me know if you want it with my belt on or my belt off! I'll be waiting wannabe...;)
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corn is a good comparison because it is an outcrosser like cannabis ,,
no anything other than that isnt the same ..
read a book jesse , your obviously literate ,,
start with Robert Allard , Principles of Plant breeding ..you too hempy , then come back and we can properly debate ..
No jesse you didnt enlighten me on anything t hat i havent already read . darn it huh ,,
 
actually id have to revise t hat last post and say if you read that book we could agree on many things and have a good chat about them instead of needign to debate ,...
looking foward to my next lesson mr teacher ...

sorry to others in the thread for a some out of line posting there by myself ,
ill take hempys advise and relax with some sativa now ,had enough caffeine for the day ,, .....
 
So about breeding - my old lady has her tubes tied!! She had her kid at 19 to so every snapped back into place.
 
Species not subject to inbreeding depression

Inbreeding depression is not a phenomenon that will inevitably occur. Given enough time and a sufficiently (but not too) small gene pool, deleterious alleles may be eliminated by natural selection by and by.

Under most circumstances, this is a rare occurrence though, as the gene pool cannot become too large (thereby increasing the odds of new deleterious alleles appearing through mutation) nor too small (resulting in outright inbreeding depression). Among island endemic populations, however, a high resistance to inbreeding depression is often seen. These derive from very small initial populations that must have been viable, and panmixia in the early stages of speciation was usually thorough. This will result in a very comprehensive elimination of deleterious recessive alleles at least. The second type of inbreeding depression – caused by overdominant heterozygous alleles – is impossible to eliminate by panmixia. However, local conditions may result in an altered selective advantage, so that the fitness of the heterozygous genotype is lowered.

Example taxa not subject to significant inbreeding depression despite extremely low effective population sizes:

Animals

* Chatham Islands Robin
* Laysan Duck (data equivocal; severe population fluctuations probably natural)
* Mauritius Kestrel
* Naked Mole Rat (mammal displaying eusocial reproductive structure and low genetic variation[1][2])
* Stegodyphus dumicola and some other social spiders (live in highly inbred colonies)
* Thai Ridgeback, a dog breed

Plants

* Dandelion (reproduces asexually through apomixis)[3]

* Nihoa Carnation
* Toromiro[verification needed]
Just in case anybody didn't bother to look further down the page.
N
 
hempy said:
The most extreme form of inbreeding is selfing So making fem seeds is fine but 1:1 breeding is not who we trying to fool here.

The reason why most lines in the dam have gone to shit is because those working them have no clue.
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why do you need to do 1:1 matings for fems? you don't!
 
hempy said:
Im GreenintheThumb and i really need to start a indica detox and start 2011 with a healthy diet of sativa so i can start making friends.

Genetic Variation in an Inbred Plant: Variation in Tissue Cultures of Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill]

E. J. Roth, B. L. Frazier, N. R. Apuya and K. G. Lark
Department of Biology, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112

Although soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill] grows as an inbreeding, generally homozygous, plant, the germplasm of the species contains large amounts of genetic variation. Analysis of soybean DNA has indicated that variation of RFLP (restriction fragment length polymorphism) markers within the species usually entails only two alleles at any one locus and that mixtures of such dimorphic loci account for virtually all of the restriction fragment variation seen in soybean (G. max), and in its ancestors, G. soja and G. gracilis. We report here that tissue cultures prepared from root tissue of individual soybean plants develop RFLP allelic differences at various loci. However, these newly generated alleles are almost always the same as ones previously found and characterized in other varieties of cultivated soybean (cultivars). This repeated generation of particular alleles suggests that much of the genetic variation seen in soybean could be the consequence of specific, relatively frequently employed, recombinational events. Such a mechanism would allow inbred cultivars to generate genetic variation (in the form of alternative alleles) in a controlled manner, perhaps in response to stress.

Genetic Variation in an Inbred Plant: Variation in Tissue Cultures of Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merrill] -- Roth et al. 121 (2): 359 -- Genetics
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soybean is an natural inbreeding species not an outcrossing one....

for those that give a shit some reading!

Plant traits correlated with generation time directly affect inbreeding depression and mating system and indirectly genetic structure
 
Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis breeders than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless breeders is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.
 
Nevil said:
Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis breeders than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless breeders is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.
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how do they smoke up ?? hehehe
 
Nevil said:
Chrysanthemums like corn are monoecious. They are not typically self pollinators as pollen is shed before the flower is receptive. Like cannabis, they are photoperiod responsive. They have been cultivated since at least 1500BC.

If you want to see a Chrysanthemum breeder flip out, start talking about open pollinations and bees. All planned matings are 1:1. It has been this way for 1000s of years. This has lead to an extraordinary number of types.

Chrysanthemum blooms are divided into 13 different bloom forms by the US National Chrysanthemum Society, Inc., which is in keeping with the international classification system. The bloom forms are defined by the way in which the ray and disk florets are arranged.

I would say that these days there are far more cannabis hacks than there are chrysanthemum breeders. Intensive inbreeding by countless hacks is likely to lead to all sorts of extremes over time. Some will focus on resin, others on calyx size, bud structure, smell, taste, yield, height and lets not forget high and the list goes on. This will lead to greater diversity, not less as the unimaginative types fear. There is no limit to how far we can go with this.

Are we all on the same page now?
N.
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they have started to favour selfing though i'm told due to their inbred nature although they have SI problems! aren't they natural polyploids too?

I've read some things on the likes of pollen limitation to gain floral adaption in females.

I've read theres a survival and adaptive reason certain plant species/populations turn to selfing and in turn can get in a state of flux

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should point out the above is not rel to Chrysanthemum etc
 
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Nevil said:
Plant traits correlated with generation time directly affect inbreeding depression and mating system and indirectly genetic structure
Where's the meat? It's primarily about selfing.
N.
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Based on data from 263 plant species for which estimates of FST, inbreeding (FIS) and outcrossing rate (tm) are available, we confirm that mating system is the main influencing factor of FST. Moreover, using an alternative measure of FST unaffected by the impact of inbreeding on effective population size, we show that the influence of tm on FST is due to its impact on gene flow (reduced pollen flow under selfing) and on genetic drift (higher drift under selfing due to inbreeding). Plant traits, in particular perenniality, influence FST mostly via their effect on the mating system but also via their association with the magnitude of selection against inbred individuals
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theres plenty to me.
 
Whether people like it or not, the standard practice for improving a breed, is to do close inbreeding to families that have outstanding and often extreme characteristics. Once these characteristics become fixed, usually after several generations, the best members of the line are outcrossed. Of all the outcrosses, often one will stand out (often the reason is because of a common ancestor further back in the pedigree). This is called a "nick".
Further matings are inbred to the nick and line bred to the best ancestor.
I offer this interactive pedigree of the Bullmastiff Torneto, who won numerous championships. WebGeneal 4.6p
You will see how he is line bred to Tailwyndes Thunderstorm. Click on the pedigree to see how he was bred. Tailwyndes Thunderstorm nicked with Boston Blackie. See how TT is inbred to the nick. It is of particular interest to see how close the Tailwynde studs inbreeding is. As often is the case some problems were created, but the successes will be indelibly imprinted on the breed. This breeding tek is found at the top level of most stud breeds of animals and plants. Familiarise yourself with the interactive pedigree provided. This is the future of cannabis breeding IMO.
N.
 
Has anyone looked at staffordshire bull terrier breeding especially blue staffs which is a dilute colour from breeding black to black. Inbreeding this blue line created a monster chunky blue staff there is problems with some of the inbred lines alot of deformaties. To keep the blue in the line black has to be re introduced at some point or the colour will dilute over time.The best line you can get is the jolson blue boy line as shown in the link below. If you follow the line you can see how many champions that stud has created. Maybe some1 should put up a database of nevs line and keep track of them and count how many champions have descended from his line.

Here is x4 gens

SBT Pedigree

Here is x12 gens

http://www.stamtavler.com/dogarchive/details.php?id=20514&gens=12
 
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I'd be willing to have a crack at such a database of Nev's work.
 
Go for it bh your the man for the job. People really need to know that nevs lines are everywhere sometimes hidden with names but the palate never lies :D.
And lets just see how many cups nevs lines have won worldwide.:D
 
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