Breeding techniques

[Donald Mallard]

The deterioration of smell and taste with inbreeding is probably why the commercial dutch strains have declined a lot since the late 90s. Sensi Seeds, for example, seem to be nowhere near as good as they were from reports, that could well be because their lines are now f3, f4, whatever rather than the original f1 they sold when they first released the strain. The Dutch cops are too good at busting grows so since the Geoden law banned large grows for seed in 98 things have been driven underground and small-scale. Easy to lose key parentals to busts of rooms so you can see why they would have to replace parents with new ones from seed and end up with inbred inferior versions of their original f1 strains.

this may be more due to lack of selection , the deterioration of smells , if both mum and dad lacked smell , the progeny are sure to suffer ,

imho a lot of the varieties ive tried from the companies mentioned look ok ,,

but lacked all the things we look for in a good strain ,,,
like nice even high , good smell ,nice taste, that kinda cannabis you have to go back and toke more of and has you saying ,,
wow thats delicious and i feel great ...

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Can a brother get a linkage map? Nope, just folks who don't understand meiosis. Yes yes, I'm sure the males of your "strain" (AHEM, cross) are very dominant. I'm sure that you understand what an F1 constitutes and that's why your P1 is 25% of your P2. And your astute knowledge of statistics and genetics is why you use that description. Fantastic!

The answers are as follows:
1)you will have to wait for Nevil to google 'nick'
2)obviously if you want to fix things you should BACKcross. That'll fix stuff, right? Shouldn't your pedigree method have an answer?

Duckman-

How do you go about selecting flavor in your males?

 

[Donald Mallard]

just by smell greeninthethumb , some are very smelly , like female plants .

 

[Ronin]

The picture Sensi use for Silver Haze is the same one that appears in Nev's 1990 catalogue as Silver Pearl x Haze so I expect the seeds you had were Nev's Silver Pearl x Haze.

If you read Nev's description it fits exactly with your experiences, he notes that the yield is less than NL5Hz as you found and he also notes that the quality could be better than NL5Hz as you found.

It really does make it a lot easier to believe what Nev says when these kind of consistencies keep popping up - it's bloody rare these days to find an honest and accurate description of a strain by a breeder but here we have a clear example of the description Nev wrote 20 years ago being verified as accurate and honest by a grower. Wish that happened more often these days but as most seed cos just make up bullshit it's getting rare to see.

I wonder if there's any chance we might see a re-relase of Silver Pearl x Haze sometime in the future?

Nev, which Haze male made the SPxHz? Was it the C, same as the NL5Hz? If so, Shanti could remake it with a Silver Pearl mother?

That looks just like the buds, though that is a little chunkier than the 3 we kept. They had those running buds like that though. It has to be the same Haze as the NL5 x Haze though- both had that incense/pepper/spice thing going on. That was the "Haze" flavor for me for years - it was what made me a Sativa guy.

I didn't know the fruity sweeter side of Haze until my buddy went to Adam to get Nl5 x Haze and SH seeds for an op we had in Florida. When he was there, he found out what happened and then met Shanti. Shanti sold him Skunk x Haze and SSH. Skunk Haze was our production piece. It seems nowadays most people I meet, below a certain age, refer to the sweeter side as "the Hazy smell/taste".


I like em both, but I really wish I had more of that spicy side. That is my next project. My friend has a SSH clone from like 94/95 that has it but it is losing vigor. Gonna hit it with some of the Mango Haze males I find in this pack. I wish I knew then what I know now about La Nina. I did find the same smell/taste, to a lesser degree, in a couple from a pack of SSH a few years ago. I lost everything due to a toxic tent.

We grew Silver Pearl as well. I do not remember if SH had SP in its make-up, but I am sure it was called "Silver Haze" when we purchased it. It was a long time ago and many many plants since then.

I still long for that flavor. It would be a connoisseur strain in today's world of heavy hybrids, it probably yields less than most Nev's Haze and some take forever. The longest flowering one was by far the best but it also had the lowest yield - you know how it works .... Not too many people want to give up that much weight, per space foot and time, even if it is some of the best herb ever. I grow for me so I want it!!!!

It is the reason I went on the internet looking for info when I started growing again. I was devastated when I learned that ship had sailed.

I have been chasing it for years and have never found it. I have found something kinda similar, though not nearly as strong of odor, a few times.

One day ...

EDIT -Nev - can I find what I am looking for in Nev's Haze?

 

[Ronin]

Can a brother get a linkage map? Nope, just folks who don't understand meiosis. Yes yes, I'm sure the males of your "strain" (AHEM, cross) are very dominant. I'm sure that you understand what an F1 constitutes and that's why your P1 is 25% of your P2. And your astute knowledge of statistics and genetics is why you use that description. Fantastic!

The answers are as follows:
1)you will have to wait for Nevil to google 'nick'
2)obviously if you want to fix things you should BACKcross. That'll fix stuff, right? Shouldn't your pedigree method have an answer?

Duckman-

How do you go about selecting flavor in your males?

Do you have a link to any of your work? I would love to see what you have grown, or are you one of the people who has only read about it?

I would take someone with no education and a few years experience over someone with a master's degree and no experience. A person with decades experience I would take over 2 people with doctorates and no experience.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Do you have a link to any of your work? I would love to see what you have grown, or are you one of the people who has only read about it?

I would take someone with no education and a few years experience over someone with a master's degree and no experience. A person with decades experience I would take over 2 people with doctorates and no experience.

We've done this before, remember squidbilly? On the other thread where the guy with decades of experience looked stupid. Remember the a priori and a posterior mr cartoon squidbilly?

 

[GreenintheThumb]

My friend has a SSH clone from like 94/95 that has it but it is losing vigor. Gonna hit it with some of the Mango Haze males I find in this pack.

The clone's been losing vigor? Really, that's interesting because Aeric's Cali-o is older and still okay, along with the chemdog/og kush/sour d shit that's all the flavor around my location these days. I used to be confused with Sam Skunkman round these parts and he's got some old clones that are doing very well. What'd your friends do to fuck up their cuttings squidbilly?

 

[Ronin]

We've done this before, remember squidbilly? On the other thread where the guy with decades of experience looked stupid.

I did not know that was you.

Sure, shit can go to hell if weak/bad/wrong parents are picked, it is genetically prone to whatever, disease, etc.

It can also go just fine. There are exceptions to every rule.

There are plenty of places in the world to get seeds. If you don't like someone's techniques, get your seeds elsewhere. There is more than one right way and not everyone's version of "the right way" is going to be the same.

I am very pleased growing Shanti's and Nev's work. Kanga's stuff looks better than just about anything you are going to find at most of the seed banks in the world. Deep Chunk, from I have seen and read, is something that has lost what made it great for anything other than breeding. Shit can go either way - there are too many variables to say any way is right or wrong.

 

[Ronin]

The clone's been losing vigor? Really, that's interesting because Aeric's Cali-o is older and still okay, along with the chemdog/og kush/sour d shit that's all the flavor around my location these days. I used to be confused with Sam Skunkman round these parts and he's got some old clones that are doing very well. What'd your friends do to fuck up their cuttings squidbilly?

Really man? Please, tell me you are kidding.

They are living things, like people, some last/live/thrive longer.

It may have something to do with taking cuttings and putting the "mother" into flower each round. Figure 5 runs a year so, this is the 75th'ish cutting of a cutting.

 

[Chana Masala]

Hi chana , ive encountered quite a few petrol , nail polish remover , aircraft glue types of smells , mostly they were from sativas , some from hybrids also ,, perhaps the sativa helps bring out more sourness in indicas ??

Hi DM, Cheers!

Thanks for the reply...

CM

 

[fxginbcn]

Quote:
can't say I've ver seen any grows of Mother's Finest or Jack Flash

jack flash was the best herb i ever saw in the dam.... 2001 in blues brothers cafe...

love an respect

 

[Nevil]

Jack Flash

Ah yeah, I remember now. That's another one I made for Sensi. A progeny tested NL5Hz father.
N.

 

[Chana Masala]

Seems you got Jacked brother N!

Have you ever smoked Jack's Cleaner. Subcool has used it for a few of his strains. I believe it is Jack HerrerxSkoosh...

I like TGA's Jack the Ripper, though I find after smoking for a few days, it looses its bang... but when you smoke a few months later... it is all good again. Solid sat hybrid that yields. The pheno Medicine Man gave me is 9 weeks, but can be harvested at 8 for commercial purposes.

Peace,

CM

 

[Ronin]

So Nev, is Silver Haze able to be recreated?

Can the flavors we talked about above be found in the Nev's Haze?

 

[suburban]

I used to be confused with Sam Skunkman round these parts

I can see the resemblance.

 

[Nevil]

So Nev, is Silver Haze able to be recreated?

Can the flavors we talked about above be found in the Nev's Haze?

The market seems more sophisticated these days, but in the '80s, earliness was a priority. Hence the use of EP in the hybrid. These days I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of earliness for quality. I can do better than Silver Haze. The thing that is on my mind a lot is what will I be smoking in 2012? The seeds will have to be made this year.
The Silver Pearl mother was a useful plant, very much like the NL5, but sweeter.
The starting point would be to recreate something like that.
N.

 

[Ronin]

Can I find the flavor of the Silver Haze, the incense/peppery side, in the Nev's Haze?

Thanks!

 

[Nevil]

SH was by HzC. So was NH.
N.

 

[Ronin]

Looks like I will have to get a pack. Going to try the new NL5 x Haze to see how it compares too.

I need to set up another room ....

This is an exciting time for marijuana lovers.

Thanks man.

 

[krk]

Sensi never had anything of their own. Prior to 1990 I sold seeds to Sensi to cover the Dutch market. Any reputation they had came from those seeds. I was a mistake to sell to Ben. Despite the deal, as soon as I ended up in jail Ben stopped buying seeds to put me under financial pressure to sell everything to him. He haggled for 6 months while lawyers chewed up my available cash. In the end, I was forced to sell for less than what I paid for the House and the 10Ha surrounding it. I got nothing for my stock. This is why I had no compunction in taking back my cuttings and a handful of seeds when I left. In the 2 years that I worked there as a consultant, I got everything back on track and then left. I left them in good shape, but considering that nobody there is so much as a breeders arsehole. I don't expect anything good will be produced again.
N.

Thank you Nevil... that finaly explains everything I wanted to know about sensi... There ES and EP went to shit when they ran out of your stock... I'm sure of that now... A long lingering question now resolved. Prime example of the Hybrid problem you speak of...the sk#1 crossed to the EP was excellent...huge yields... But after you stopped selling to sensi and they had to make there own....crap-ola...F2,3,4....all junk. They even ripped me off once by selling me seeds that were not ES.....400 of them.