Breeding techniques
- Thread starter Nevil
- Start date
B
british_hempire
Guest
The deterioration of smell and taste with inbreeding is probably why the commercial dutch strains have declined a lot since the late 90s. Sensi Seeds, for example, seem to be nowhere near as good as they were from reports, that could well be because their lines are now f3, f4, whatever rather than the original f1 they sold when they first released the strain. The Dutch cops are too good at busting grows so since the Geoden law banned large grows for seed in 98 things have been driven underground and small-scale. Easy to lose key parentals to busts of rooms so you can see why they would have to replace parents with new ones from seed and end up with inbred inferior versions of their original f1 strains.
hi all
also loss/fief of majority of docu on the strains and not even good grower/breeder to maintain the stock. it's a huge mess as Dronkers is more into hemp lately and the son has left and stop all the breeding he used to do. And with the bad germ rates I'm starting to wonder if they didn't even stop producing seeds and just selling stocks they did previously.
cheers
bonbolos
edit: Nevil jsut wondering if you saw my questions previously ?
also loss/fief of majority of docu on the strains and not even good grower/breeder to maintain the stock. it's a huge mess as Dronkers is more into hemp lately and the son has left and stop all the breeding he used to do. And with the bad germ rates I'm starting to wonder if they didn't even stop producing seeds and just selling stocks they did previously.
cheers
bonbolos
edit: Nevil jsut wondering if you saw my questions previously ?
You mean early to mid 90s...because I used to buy Early Skunk from sensi early 90s got 1lb yields...then come 94ish there ES went to light and airy junk. Maybe this coinsides with Nevil leaving.? Same time the early side of the early pearl also disapeared. Which in photosensitve lines that trait goes away fast in F2, f3s and so forth...if not breed soley for that earliness trait.
B
british_hempire
Guest
I don't know when things started going downhill for Sensi, to be honest I've never bought a pack of Sensi Seeds apart from Mexican Sativa years ago and they didn't germ. Sensi were always too expensive compared to what else was available. The Geoden law was introduced in 1998 and that was when the general decline set in. Serious Seeds saw a decline in some of their lines after 98 due to loss of parentals, the Kali Mist and AK47 changed and not for the better, some say White Russian isn't what it once was either.
I don't know if things declined at Sensi after Nevil left, the newer Sensi strains like Marley's Collie, American Dream etc are ones I know very little about, never seen em grown, in fact, you see very few Sensi Seeds grows online these days and it's been that way for years. I don't remember ever seeing grows of Silver Haze for example. I'm struggling to think of any Sensi grows I've seen last few years to be honest.
I don't know if things declined at Sensi after Nevil left, the newer Sensi strains like Marley's Collie, American Dream etc are ones I know very little about, never seen em grown, in fact, you see very few Sensi Seeds grows online these days and it's been that way for years. I don't remember ever seeing grows of Silver Haze for example. I'm struggling to think of any Sensi grows I've seen last few years to be honest.
Ronin
Well-known member
Silver Haze changed the game for me. Nl5 x Haze had the incensey/peppery thing going on too and yielded a hell of a lot better, but the Silver Haze had that flavor x3. It had these giant silvery blue calyxed small, but solid, running flowers. We got both the same year - SH was all for our heads and the Nl5 x Haze had big enough yields to spread around.
I wish I could get my hands on some of that old stock.
Nevil
Breeder
Sensi never had anything of their own. Prior to 1990 I sold seeds to Sensi to cover the Dutch market. Any reputation they had came from those seeds. I was a mistake to sell to Ben. Despite the deal, as soon as I ended up in jail Ben stopped buying seeds to put me under financial pressure to sell everything to him. He haggled for 6 months while lawyers chewed up my available cash. In the end, I was forced to sell for less than what I paid for the House and the 10Ha surrounding it. I got nothing for my stock. This is why I had no compunction in taking back my cuttings and a handful of seeds when I left. In the 2 years that I worked there as a consultant, I got everything back on track and then left. I left them in good shape, but considering that nobody there is so much as a breeders arsehole. I don't expect anything good will be produced again.
N.
B
british_hempire
Guest
Well that makes sense then Nev, no wonder people say Sensi Seeds are shit today compared to the old days.
That's nice of Ben, to take the house and land and seeds for as little as possible. Is there anyone in the Dutch scene that you worked with that didn't screw ya?
That's nice of Ben, to take the house and land and seeds for as little as possible. Is there anyone in the Dutch scene that you worked with that didn't screw ya?
The son alan was there a bit after nevil (I think Simon did the intermediate bewteen nev and alan) and he made some real good shit with the jack line, he worked on various paths that gave jack flash and mother's finest, which stays one of my favourit
Marley's collis is great, I think Simon was still breeder of sensi when it was created.
Black domina is also from Alan;
but since he left, everything is in a real mess, they really need some new breeders because they gona be left on the side of the road
cheers
bonbolos
Marley's collis is great, I think Simon was still breeder of sensi when it was created.
Black domina is also from Alan;
but since he left, everything is in a real mess, they really need some new breeders because they gona be left on the side of the road
cheers
bonbolos
B
british_hempire
Guest
The picture Sensi use for Silver Haze is the same one that appears in Nev's 1990 catalogue as Silver Pearl x Haze so I expect the seeds you had were Nev's Silver Pearl x Haze.
If you read Nev's description it fits exactly with your experiences, he notes that the yield is less than NL5Hz as you found and he also notes that the quality could be better than NL5Hz as you found.
It really does make it a lot easier to believe what Nev says when these kind of consistencies keep popping up - it's bloody rare these days to find an honest and accurate description of a strain by a breeder but here we have a clear example of the description Nev wrote 20 years ago being verified as accurate and honest by a grower. Wish that happened more often these days but as most seed cos just make up bullshit it's getting rare to see.
I wonder if there's any chance we might see a re-relase of Silver Pearl x Haze sometime in the future?
Nev, which Haze male made the SPxHz? Was it the C, same as the NL5Hz? If so, Shanti could remake it with a Silver Pearl mother?
B
british_hempire
Guest
Isn't Jack Herer from Nev's work? I suppose with a load of NL5Hz and HzSk plants of superlative quality to work with it wouldn't take all that much breeding skill to create some good lines from them which will be what Simon or whoever did that breeding would have done. Like Nev says, things were in good shape when he left so as long as they weren't totally incompetent they had all the ingredients on hand to create quality lines.
Nev posted about Black Domina a few weeks back, it's a four way indica hybrid that he bred.
kashrocks
New member
I remember smoking Silver Haze at the Greenhouse coffee-shop around 1996.
One section of the menu was devoted to past cannabis cup winners.
It was a great idea as it allowed customers to educate themselves.
This is how I trained my palate.
And yes the SilverHz was outstanding...
Peace.
K.
One section of the menu was devoted to past cannabis cup winners.
It was a great idea as it allowed customers to educate themselves.
This is how I trained my palate.
And yes the SilverHz was outstanding...
Peace.
K.
hi BH
I dunno, but from what I grew and saw it was very unstable, you had the whole range of phenos poping out. the cross l33T refers to gave very ununiform progeny. from this progeny, various lines where then developed taht gave in particular mother finest and jack flash.
cheers
bonbolos
I dunno, but from what I grew and saw it was very unstable, you had the whole range of phenos poping out. the cross l33T refers to gave very ununiform progeny. from this progeny, various lines where then developed taht gave in particular mother finest and jack flash.
cheers
bonbolos
B
british_hempire
Guest
Yeah, Jack Herer was wildly unstable, a lot of people complained about how varied it was i seem to remember.
Makes sense that Sensi had a load of cuttings that Nev left and they used those to breed some strains, can't say I've ever seen any grows of Mother's Finest or Jack Flash, seems like none of the later Sensi strains gathered much of a following cos you never see them being grown.
Makes sense that Sensi had a load of cuttings that Nev left and they used those to breed some strains, can't say I've ever seen any grows of Mother's Finest or Jack Flash, seems like none of the later Sensi strains gathered much of a following cos you never see them being grown.
C
Chana Masala
Guest
Hi Bro's, I just chopped two pheno's of Mothers Finest F2... I had some Bubba along side, and mothers finest looked nothing like Jack or Haze. It looks just like Kush. Maybe that is the variation I pulled but probably not...
Anyway, If you like I can post a couple of my pheno's of her.
Still nice to know that its Nev's beans...
I know its been discussed but where does the petrol or diesal phenos come from? Is it something found in haze or is it found in many other varieties as well...
Peace,
CM
Anyway, If you like I can post a couple of my pheno's of her.
Still nice to know that its Nev's beans...
I know its been discussed but where does the petrol or diesal phenos come from? Is it something found in haze or is it found in many other varieties as well...
Peace,
CM
the last pack of sensiseeds i bought as well as the last pack i will ever buy from them was mothers finest. 0 for 10 germ rate and bought from the attitude. the thread is here at mns. i have since made up my mind to eliminate this sort of pissing contest completely from my life. i am now committed to breeders and/or vendors with a rep for only selling the best. peace-biteme
D
Donald Mallard
Guest
Hi chana , ive encountered quite a few petrol , nail polish remover , aircraft glue types of smells , mostly they were from sativas , some from hybrids also ,, perhaps the sativa helps bring out more sourness in indicas ??
joshuahazen
New member
Hi Nevil,
I never really thought about it but that does seem to be true. I have seen that, now that you mention it.
I noticed though in my breeding regiman, where I was primarily trying to get back to the traits of one of the original parents, the NL5hz by the way, that I had the best luck in the F2 and F3 generations, I had a cross between a ¾ NL5hz which was the result of back crossing an F1Humboldt County Giant IndicaX NL5hz female[this cross referred to as Humboldt Haze or HH], back into the original NL5 Hz. I then crossed this ¾ hz into another HH hybrid cross between HH and another very high yielding long proven Giant Indica clone from bagseed. The resulting F1 cross was 75% NL5hz on one side, and 25%Nl5Hz on the other. This was inbred for one generation, and it was in the F2 generation from a large sample, that I found a speciman which had a flavor and potency very similar to NL5hz, with a significantly shortenned budding cycle(70 days) and was even higher yeilding than the original NL5hz.
The resulting F3 seed from this very special female was fairly true breeding and took after mom. The males from this seed seemed to be very dominant. I referred to this strain simply as the HHG and it was the backbone of my very simple breeding program. It seemed to cross well into absolutely everything.
My questions are as follows,
1) the original F2 mother would be an example of a nick right? What about the resulting F3 seed, would prime examples of them be nicks?
2) Where would you recommend going with the F3 seed, in terms of continuing a breeding program, if the goal was to further fix and improve the positive traits ofNL5hz potency and flavor, high yield from Giant, and short budding cycle from Humboldt? Would you recomend going to F4 or would some kind of backcross be better?
Thank you.
Last edited: