The origins of Haze

  • Thread starter Thread starter JessE
  • Start date Start date
hi

I have a question, may be stupid :


What is the haze the most strong in the world ?

and of course, it is possible to have seeds or buy a clone of Shantibaba for exemple ? where ? :D
 
MAKAVELI,

it depends on personal taste really but NevillesHaze , MangoHaze , SSH , NHxMango are all very potent strains each unique in its own right. The NH and NHxMH contain the most haze but all are special and would hate to not have tried em all!
 
Last edited:
When i have space in my garden for HAzes I would buy them all. Have 9 seeds of NH remaining but they strech so much that I need some space.
 
british_hempire said:
Nice article Jesse, funny coincidence but I've also written an article about Haze!

Here's the section about the Hazes created while Shantibaba and Neville worked for Greenhouse Seeds, would just like folks to have a read and see if they can correct any errors or add any more info, hopefully when Shanti gets back from SE Asia he can contribute some more details as I have zero faith that Arjan would be of any help!

__________________________________________________________________________

The Greenhouse Years - Super Silver Haze, Mango Haze and Neville's Haze

Despite their current claims to have been an established seed company since 1985, the history of Arjan Roskam's Greenhouse dates back to the 10th of August 1992 when he opened his first coffeeshop Greenhouse Tolstraat in Amsterdam's Old South. A second shop called Greenhouse Namaste opened on the Waterlooplein on the 21st of April 1995 and around the same time Arjan teamed up with Australian breeder Shantibaba (Scott Blakey). They launched Greenhouse Seeds in time for the 1995 Cannabis Cup, the strains were bred by Shantibaba and included famous names like White Widow, White Rhino, Great White Shark and El Nino. Greenhouse won multiple cups with these Shantibaba-bred strains, dominating the High Times Cannabis Cup in the same way Neville had in the early years of the event. A third coffeeshop called Greenhouse Centrum opened on the 1st of June 1997 on Oudezijds Voorburgwal in the Red Light District and after retiring from full-time breeding Neville became a co-owner of this shop with Arjan. An excerpt from an article that used to be found on the Greenhouse Seeds website:

“The Greenhouse Seed Company breeding program to develop the new strains used new growing methods including using new substrates, climatic controls and new nutrient formulas served to the plants using new methods. The breeding program was a success. The first Green House, coffee shop, Tolstraat, opened soon after and popularity of the seed strains grew as more people sampled the new strains on offer at the shop. Master Kush and Cytral were a big success and Greenhouse was proud to have them represented at the 1st High Times Cannabis Cup. A second Green House coffee shop, Waterlooplein, opened in 1995. The artistic looking shop won the Cannabis Cup for the best looking coffee shop that year. As the Greenhouse Seed Company continued to grow they looked for a partner and a collaboration with a former Sensi Seed breeder led to a third Green House shop in 1997.“

Neville and Shantibaba began working together on breeding projects and each chose a female from a large crop of over 1000 NL5 x Haze A plants, the female Neville chose became the female half of Super Silver Haze (SSH), whereas Shantibaba's choice became the mother of Mango Haze. Shantibaba explained the selections in two posts on the mrnice.nl forum in April 2007:

“SSH is just one of those seed F1s that you are guaranteed of finding something great in every packet. Of course it is a small sample but you should have no problems. Consider this, to find the SSH female parent it took Nev over 1000 seeds flowered out over several years. Then doing the progeny test, which ultimately is the only true test of breeding, took alot of us several attempts to be sure the selection was true . This strain has had alot of breeding work over alot of years and it is not for no reason that it is so close to so many people worldwide.”

“The reason I went on with MH and Nev went on with the SSH was personal taste differences. The majority of people we gave both to taste initially went for the SSH and therefore it was named and its history is written. But my choice was MH and for any of you who manage to find a great mum keep her well as I believe you will not find a better example of such a sweet smelling, cerebral effecting plant.”

SSH was created by crossing Neville's selected NL5 x Haze A to a Skunk x Haze A male. It was entered in the Hydro category of the 1997 Cannabis Cup and won 1st prize. SSH seeds were made available during the 1998 Cup and SSH again won the Hydro category as well as taking the overall 1st place and El Nino, another Haze hybrid by Shantibaba placing second overall. SSH took 1st again at the 1999 Cannabis Cup to complete a remarkable hat-trick of victories. Here is Shantibaba's description of SSH from mrnice.nl:

“A champion of champions since winning its hat-trick at the 1997, 1998, and 1999 High Times Cannabis Cups and comprising of the most commercial strains known to the uncivilized world: Skunk, NL and Haze. Such achievements confer an undoubtedly regal pedigree. It has an excellent breed for those who wish to possess the stash of stashes and leaves one gasping for reality. This complex hybrid is in the cutting edge in practical Haze hybrids, designed to astound the grower and consumer alike. Recommendation is unnecessary as most people can not see the Haze for their daze.”

Neville's Haze

Shantibaba and Neville decided to make a new more Haze dominant hybrid and crossed the Haze C male to a selected NL5 x Haze female, this was sold by GHS as Neville's Haze, it was a cup winner in 1998, the year it was released. Neville's Haze is the most Haze dominant hybrid that will perform indoors, under lights and having both the A and C males in it's lineage, it contains phenotypes that express both the Colombian and Thai sides of the Haze genetics. Here is the original description from the GHS catalogue:

Pedigree: Almost pure Haze with just a hint of Indica (Northern Lights).
Awards: Never entered in any competition.
Strength: The most potent variety of its kind on or off the market. Not recommended for inexperienced smokers - too trippy - too profound.
Flowering Times: Indoors: should be started under 12 hours of lights. The earliest will finish in 14 weeks (25%). Those that take much longer than this are usually discarded as not practical.
Outdoors: should be grown in the Tropics + started just before the on set of autumn. Yields are surprisingly good - the longer flowering time is usually compensated with extra large yields, both in and outdoors. Not for the novice smoker or grower.
Specifications: ~ Flower: 14 + weeks ~ Price: $175.00 (10 seeds) ~ Code: nh

Here is Shantibaba's description of Neville's Haze from mrnice.nl:

A tribute to the father of all modern seed companies, Neville Schoenmakers. There is something very special about this 3/4 sativa that those in the know will recognize once they smell the end product. It can be difficult to know what to base your selective reasoning on, but the plants that go longer than 16 weeks indoor will really not be of value in the end to indoor cultivators.A tip for those who do find a long flowering plant they wish to keep...clones usually finish 2-3 weeks quicker than the seed mother plant and therefore will give the grower a possibility to finish something that normally needs the tropics to grow in.The full flavor is sativa all the way so for you Indica lovers this plant will not be for you! It was made by combining a pure Haze to a NL5/Haze, thus creating probably one of the most influential plants of our time , certainly for flavor , aroma and effect. It is a must if you are within 10' of the equator for outdoor cultivation , but indoor would be recommended in other regions. All seed companies owe the ground work and origin of modern cultivars to Nevil . Like the man himself...the legend grows!

Shantibaba ended his involvement with Greenhouse Seeds after the 1998 Cannabis Cup and soon after, Neville also departed. Shantibaba explains what happened in the History of Mr Nice article published on the mrnice.nl website:

“I did not particularly like the event so decided to retire from it that year. Coincidentally my relationship with my Dutch partner deteriorated, and egos went crazy. As a result, I sold my interest in the Greenhouse Seed Company and, as a sole trader, set up Mr Nice Seedbank (MNS), which has always been and remains a Dutch company. Shortly afterwards, Neville also forego his interest in Greenhouse. MNS never entrusted plants to non-growers, including our ex-Dutch partners.”

Shantibaba took his breeding plants and seed collection and moved to Switzerland to continue his breeding work as he explains:

“In 1999, Dutch law changed and no longer permitted the production of seeds. Due to the Dutch gedogen law, however, selling seed imported from another country remained legal. We wanted to fulfil our project without breaking any country’s laws. Accordingly, MNS moved its growing operations to Switzerland, where the law permits growing cannabis for seed production. Many Dutch seed companies lost plants, mother rooms, and seed crops, but in Switzerland, MNS seed production blossomed.”

After Shantibaba and Neville parted ways with Greenhouse Seeds the details of the Haze genetics being offered by Arjan become difficult to discern, certainly the parent plants being used to make the Haze varieties offered had changed as Shanti and Neville took them when they left. However, this did not stop Greenhouse from continuing to sell the same Haze varieties they had before. I have no idea whether the varieties were reproduced by finding new parents from original seedstock or if the genetics were from another source, only Arjan and a select few at Greenhouse Seeds know the truth and to speculate is largely pointless. Arjan owns the copyright on the names White Widow, White Rhino, Great White Shark and others so is legally able to sell seeds with these names; however there are no laws governing the authenticity of the genetics so while the name remains the same, the genetics are subject to change. A good explanation was given by Shantibaba in a 2007 internet post:

“Seeds of Cannabis are not recognized as authentic except for various hemp strains the French managed to patent years ago. So every company who sells Cannabis seed has no patent nor ever can have a patent. The best they can do is try to copyright a name that includes their company name. That is the truth and therefore you see companies like GHSco now using everyone elses name of a strain even though they are using F1 seed to make these feminized versions...and it is not only them but many other companies that do that.”

“Since 1998 I must have answered several thousand complaints against Arjan's seed which he sells under GHSco. He will never admit it but he lost or killed most all plants that were left to him so he basically buys in seed from Ingemar(which is unpredictable at best) or tries to avoid true breeding by using hormones to feminize seed. The reason he feminizes seed is two fold, one it sells well to beginners or people wanting to only get females, and two because he has no idea of what male to breed with...nor does he have the males so as an alternative use the hormones to make seed from the female...a job anyone can do. The only problem now will come when people grow his types. And just a small tip for anyone who really wants to know, the loudest sound comes from an empty barrel...that is why he has god knows how many strains named after his own self...is it ego or insecurity...I will leave it to you to figure. “

Since the turn of the millenium, Greenhouse have released a host of new Haze varieties such as Arjan's Hazes 1, 2 and 3; Arjan's Ultra Hazes 1, 2 and 3 and Strawberry Haze. Concrete details about these strains and their genetic makeup are not readily available so it is unknown if they contain any of the Haze genetics introduced by Neville or if they are even Haze variations at all. Regardless of the authenticity or quality of his genetics, Arjan ensured that the Haze name remained a hot item in the world of cannabis seeds. Arjan's Ultra Haze #1 was created by crossing a Neville's Haze plant to a sativa from Laos and was entered in the 2006 Cannabis Cup, everyone who smoked it was unimpressed and very surprised when it won 1st prize.

When originally offered for sale, the lineage of Arjan's Haze #1 was listed as Nevilles Haze X Super Silver Haze X "secret haze" and Arjan’s Haze #2 as Neville’s Haze X Super Silver Haze X Laotian. It is unknown if these are the actual lineages or whether the seed was created by Greenhouse themselves or bought in from an outside source.

The lineage of Arjan's Strawberry Haze is listed as Swiss Sativa X [Northern Light #5 X Haze], this suggests that the strain was bought in seed form from a Swiss based grower as a Haze x Erdpurt hybrid was popular among outdoor growers during the brief Swiss cannabis growing boom in the early 2000s. Erdpurt is a traditional Swiss strawberry flavoured outdoor cultivar that is very hardy but low in potency and resin production. Arjan's Strawberry Haze was met with distinctly negative reactions on it's release in 2006, being derided by one veteran Haze smoker as having 'no taste, no THC, real hay'.

Meanwhile Shantibaba (as Mr Nice Seedbank) continued to offer Neville's Haze, Super Silver Haze, Mango Haze and El Nino (renamed La Nina as GHS owned the copyright on the name El Nino) using the same parent plants as he did in the years 1995 to 1998 while working at GHS.
Click to expand...

I dont know how I missed this british hempire, but awesome read. The funny thing is that where GHS uses old stock photos of their white family and other classics back from the 90's, their various Arjan's hazes look like absolute crap... because he doesn't have the finest breeder in the world to rip off of anymore. In fact these are all ripoff's off Shanti's gear..but theyre so terrible that they at least don't resemble any off the current gear. I finally found the actual genetics to them, and the genes are really good.....its just the bozo's whos actually breeding them that ruin them.

Arjan's Haze #1: Nevile's Haze x G13 sativa (I bet its the G13 Haze that everyone and their grandma's have/had. But still if Shanti grew this you know it would be straight fire, its amazing that they can mess up such a pedigree.)

Arjan's Haze #2: Haze x Laos plant (Notice everytime Arjan talks about this plant he says "haze from laos", well I'm willing to bet my farm that real orginal haze never made it to laos. If its a sativa then say so, breeders need to stop using blatantly confusing/misleading nonclementure and slang )

Arjan's Haze #3: Neville's Haze x Super Siler Haze X "Laos" sativa (Again at least two of the parents are superstars why does this pots suck so bad?)

Arjan's Ultra Haze #1: Neville's Haze x Cambodian sativa x "Laos" sativa (Its getting to be very apparent that no one knows what theyre doing at GHS...but wow colored seeds, most breeders live off their plants reputation..GHS needs gimmicks and lots of them)

Arjan's Ultra Haze #2: Neville's Haze x Mango Haze x "Laos" sativa (Heres where its black and white that Arjan is a theif and poser, where does his Mango Haze come from...gee I wonder.)

I just really hate this guy, I and other people I know got ripped off by him by buying his shwag, wasting or time and his personal style just reeks of douche. Watching the GHS videos on youtube made me embarresed to be a pot smoker. I've never seen a more trendy poser. He just looks like all the other wealthy "stoners" that use all the annoying slang. He is also obssesed with celebrities. He loves to gloat about how "all the movie stars" and "all the rap stars" smoke his shwag. Personally if a rapper is rapping about a strain I smoke....I don't want it anymore. I absolutely hate the slang term "kush" because just like all other ghetto slang that makes no sense its become a slang term for good weed, just as Arjan uses the slang term of haze for sativa in every grow video. Notice He always says Laos Haze, Haze this Haze that. He also says fabulous and fantastic about a 1000 times eatch. I don't know how Shanti put up with him for as long as he did and I don't even know the guy lol.
 
jingles said:
I think he mentions in the last paragraph, 'the haze was found'..
Click to expand...

I think it would be fair to say the dried bud pic is the sample tried out and 'that had been saved for such a special occasion' by Jingles 'not me btw',The other pic looks heavily thai influenced but i doubt is haze,
The article was first printed in 79 but was penned a year or two earlier so the time frame is correct. 'Kim, Fred, and jingles' I think one or two of them frequents the forums and maybe even here at mr nice..
 
Hi Jingles, thanks for reply

I read ed rosenthal saying Jingles invented Skunk#1(stabilized Mexican Acapulco Gold x Afghani hybrid and a Colombian Gold plant)

He also says the Haze was developed from two hybrids crossed,the first plant used was perhaps the same plant or a cousin of the one used by Jingles , but also went onto say about white widow being created by ingmar, I sort of tailed off then:)

So if Jingles, Kim or Fred is about, with all due respect, then maybe they could throw some truth up with pics or what not, on any of the above or the entire history of Haze :)

peace all
 
redeye24/7 said:
I read ed rosenthal saying Jingles invented Skunk#1(stabilized Mexican Acapulco Gold x Afghani hybrid and a Colombian Gold plant)
Click to expand...

i know i'm opening a whole can of worms here, but if Ed said that "Jingles" created Skunk #1, then "Jingles" = Sam the Skunkman. Ed and Sam have known each other for a long time, have collaborated in writing, and went to Amsterdam together to research starting a seed company in '83 or roundabouts. there are many things that Ed could be corrected on, but i doubt the creator of Skunk #1 is one of those things.
 
I thought Jingles was/is Sam aswell when I read it, if the story is as told by Sam, him being the said creator of Sk#1

Yeah he also mentions Dave Watson' s Dutch company Hortifarm in the same article, Jingles was/is ? a Northern California grower & Breeder, as written by Ed

Or they are all Sam :)
 
redeye24/7 said:
Yeah he also mentions Dave Watson' s Dutch company Hortifarm in the same article, Jingles was/is ? a Northern California grower & Breeder, as written by Ed

Or they are all Sam :)
Click to expand...


O what a tangled web he has weved?.:rolleyes:

More faces than big ben.



#
 
id love too read those articles of ED speaking on ohaze.he was around back then im intereted to kno wat he recalls

sad BH stop posting on the history nothin new as of lately


1luvbigherb
 
british_hempire said:
Tom Hill's Haze which descends from Positronics Haze is closer to OT1's Haze than Sams I think. Sam has stated at icmag that Positonics obtained their Haze from him, but others have suggested that Old Ed was the source of Positronic's Haze (and if anyone can find an old Posi or Lowlands Seed Co catalogue from 85 or earlier, and it has Haze in it, then that would mean it did come from Old Ed, not Sam.

.
Click to expand...

I just ask Wernard bruining from postonics and he sey Old Ed loves the Haze but he whas working more for dutch outdoor.
he thinks Dr Watson (i think Sam) bring Haze to them.
but he whas not sure he dint like Haze that must too strong.
that time he whas working more on cintrel so not intresded in Haze Old Ed worked it i think?

Peace

LBH
 
Mind boggling revelations on the history of Haze

Couldn't stand the suspense any longer, so I pm'ed British Hempire to get the latest goss on the origins of Haze. He finally replied, saying he still wasn't ready to publish his findings as he was awaiting verification from a professor of marijuana mythology at the University of South Wales. He did however give me some absolutely mind boggling tidbits:

1. The true identity of Sam Skunkman aka David Watson is none other than....wait for it....Ed Rosenthal!

2. Sam/Dave/Ed had been working with British intelligence as early as 1939 to develop an exploding Superskunk cigarette in the assassination of Adolf Hitler!

3. The true origins of Haze was British, that the famous Brother's Haze referred to the Brothers of Eternal Love - a cabal of expat poms, of which Old Timer was a founding member.

4. The origin of the Haze that Neville Schoenmaker acquired was from none other than the Mullumbimby Madness that arrived in Holland with Shanti.

5. Neville had married his love of sheep breeding and marijuana breeding and was somewhere in New Zealand developing a cross between an Argentine Marino Ram and a Columbian sativa.

Not wanting to believe such a fantasy I wrote back to BH to suggest he was talking BS, inventing a story to make it seem like his countrymen were the only keepers of the Truth on the Origins of Haze. He told me to fuck off he wasn't Dalai Hempy.:mad:

So I pm'ed Sam Skunkman over at ICmag to guage his reaction. He neither acknowledged nor denied that he was Ed Rosenthal, he said it was a coincidence that he was a former jeweler who just so happened to live in the Amsterdam's Jewish quarter. He did however say that the Mullumbimby Madness brought to Holland by Shanti was in fact developed by him in the 70's when he was visiting Byron Bay!

I then pm'ed Hempy to get some Earthy wisdom and see what he had to say. He basically said that both OT and SamS were liars and that the Haze was probably a Thia.

SamS did offer me some pure CBD, non-THC buds that were stronger than valium if I would keep his identity quiet. I kinda wish I'd taken him up on his offer. Who needs to smoke haze when you can trip out more just bullshitting about it?

If ever there was a need to prove that marijuana causes brain damage, this thread and the one over at ICmag would probably provide it.:D
 
humor

Hey L33t and all,

Bushweed was being facetious...sarcasm often is hard to tell on message boards...hilarious:D
 
hi Skunkha

Well if its a joke what can I say other than I guess this person must have a lot of free time and not knowing what to do with it and that there must be something wrong with this person if he came here and registered just to make some black humor and insult the host by calling him a lier..

In my world this is not funny..

Anyway I just replied out of curiosity and of course I don't really take seriously claims that are not backed up by proof
 
bushweed said:
5. Neville had married his love of sheep breeding and marijuana breeding and was somewhere in New Zealand developing a cross between an Argentine Marino Ram and a Columbian sativa.
Click to expand...

Hi L33t mate, read this bit carefully.... A sheep crossed with a plant lol

He wasn't insulting Neville at all just making a jab at how far fetched some haze theories are:p

I have much respect for hempy but the thia bit had me in stitches:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top