Mango Haze: Selection In Small Spaces

[cannatari]

Hello, resinbud. Nice to meet you. Thanks for dropping in and thank you for the kind words.

It is very much like an ebb and flow. The reservoir is external so that it can be easily replaced and so I don't have to carry the weight of the nutrient solution when I move the plants to work on them. This system can also by converted to DWC and the external reservoir will allow me to maintain my nutrient solution without having to remove the plants from the flowering area should I decide to SCROG or LST the plants. I don't know if you've ever tried to SCROG with DWC but you can imagine the challenges that it presents when you have to replace the res.

I'm still experimenting with different feeding cycles but for now I'm just trying to keep the medium moist and not over water the cubes.

I'm trying to figure out how your tomato hydro works. Is that a huge net-cup that they're in or is the whole container filled with expanded clay?

 

[cannatari]

Day 53

I'm having some feeding problems with the seedlings. All but 1 of the short phenos look great but all of the tall phenos have underdeveloped, pale leaves with burnt tips. I've been feeding them 600ppm (swings up to 800) and today I fed them 300ppm which should gradually swing another 100ppm over the next week. If the short phenos show any sign of underfeeding then I have to install a 2nd reservoir and manage 2 different feeding regimes. This should prove to be a good learning experience as I've managed a dozen different varieties at the same time and they all preformed the same on the same nutrients. I've never experienced this before. Here's a pic of the leaves, tall pheno's on the left:

If it turns out that I need to manage 2 reservoirs, I'll also have to transplant likes with likes. Fortunately I already did this when the cubes went into the hydros so now I only need to switch #8 with #9. Even though #8 is a short pheno, it's having the same problems as the tall pheno's. BTW, I'm seeing what looks to be pistils on the clones from #10 and #15! Both are tall phenos!

In other news, I chucked some pollen earlier this year and germinated 40 of the beans in September. Only 3 of them popped and they've been growing outside (abandon). My tray of starter cubes has been sitting outside ever since and the recent rain has caused a delayed germination of one of the seeds! Those cubes stayed soggy for at least a month, got baked by the Sun for another month, and have been getting rained on for the past few weeks. Amazing! The seedling is LSDxOGSk:

WTF am I going to do with this thing? It chills under the dome with the clones for now. I don't want it because the LSD was from a fem seed but this delayed germination has me curious. That seed was soggy for a month! Maybe there's something to "double soaking". Nature's way of trying again next season.

 

[cannatari]

Had a failure with the water-cooled light. Now I'm running bare bulb. Temps stay under 90. I've been wanting to warm up the garden anyways and I've freed up some space. It feels more tropical in the garden.

Here are pictures of some purple leaves that are starting to develop and what looks to be pistils on the clones. In the last photo you can see bracts right next to pistils to be sure there's no confusion.

That's Strawberry Cough in flowering BTW, 1 plant.

 

[Chana Masala]

Water Cooled

Ah shite!

You know about saying I told you so eh!!!! Lol, kidding! Excellent work for keeping it on track though... now you got room to add another bulb... hahaha...

Is that CBF Strawberry Cough?

One,

CM

 

[cannatari]

Ah shite!

You know about saying I told you so eh!!!! Lol, kidding! Excellent work for keeping it on track though... now you got room to add another bulb... hahaha...

Is that CBF Strawberry Cough?

One,

CM

LOL! I had it coming, that's for sure. Now I can put my other T5 in the lower half of my shelf unit for flowering. It's gonna cost about a bill to switch the 6 bulb fixture to 3000k VHO's but it'll be about 40,000 lumen though.

I got the SC by way of dispensary clone. I think it might be Mile High's?

 

[Chana Masala]

Well in honesty brother, I envy your simple yet complex system... on the scale it is great...

I kind of wish I could play around with new thoughts too, but to swap out my main garden would cost to much, so I am stuck with deficiency that I try my best to manage.

Mile High... I am going to do a strain search, never heard of the cut before...

Is it a 11 weeker?

I have 20 seeds of CBF's Strawberry Cough I got from Woodhorse Seeds in BC. It is supposed to originate from Kyle Kushman's Strawberry offering...

I will put it on my to due list for 2011...

Respect Cannatarian...

CM

 

[cannatari]

I posted some links, info and pics of my Strawberry HERE.

Realize that this particular SC was grown under a blue filter and the current one is not. The blue filter and direct overhead lighting caused extreme prolonged flowering but humongous buds. The current SC is already more mature at 6 weeks than the other one was at 9. I had to chop it at 11 weeks and the trichs were only 1/2 cloudy, the calyxes never swelled, the leaves never yellowed and it foxtailed like crazy. I've been working with this cut of strawberry all year and it only did this when I used the blue filter. I believe that removing the filter would have initiated her final phase. I'm thinking that switching spectrum is better that full spectrum for huge yeilds. Maybe the red spectrum doesn't induce flowering as much as it does finishing. I hate to experiment on the Mango Haze but I think I'm gonna have to flower with Metal Halide till I've got some nice fat buds, then switch to HPS for ripening. MMMMmmmm!

 

[Hop Head]

Wow cannatari! Those are some very pretty girls you have there. Good luck with the rest of your grow. Hop Head

 

[Chana Masala]

I posted some links, info and pics of my Strawberry HERE.

Realize that this particular SC was grown under a blue filter and the current one is not. The blue filter and direct overhead lighting caused extreme prolonged flowering but humongous buds. The current SC is already more mature at 6 weeks than the other one was at 9. I had to chop it at 11 weeks and the trichs were only 1/2 cloudy, the calyxes never swelled, the leaves never yellowed and it foxtailed like crazy. I've been working with this cut of strawberry all year and it only did this when I used the blue filter. I believe that removing the filter would have initiated her final phase. I'm thinking that switching spectrum is better that full spectrum for huge yeilds. Maybe the red spectrum doesn't induce flowering as much as it does finishing. I hate to experiment on the Mango Haze but I think I'm gonna have to flower with Metal Halide till I've got some nice fat buds, then switch to HPS for ripening. MMMMmmmm!

You know, if you keep all this up, you are going to be changing careers and spaces very soon! LMAO!

Braps to the 11 week bud that wanted to keep going, and going, and going, and going, and going.... and going...

Well it seems the dye was a great idea. Honestly, did you come up with that cause if you did, I am changing all 8K to water cooled and it will be rainbow brite up in Toronto...

Love that SC cut man... how did she smoke and taste?

One,

CM

[EDIT: That SC Bud was akin to Yo Sammy's C5 and my expression @ home when I first saw it... f it bro, after that I am logging off for the night...]

 

[cannatari]

Hey Chana,

I first considered dying my coolant for photography sake. I then considered that it could be a good color spectrum experiment.

I first tried RIT Dye (clothing) and it didn't look how I visualized it should. Next I found success with blue food coloring and naturally at first I used too much.

Look how it made the bud look white:

I want to work with pink next. The dye looks like Penetrator. I'm also thinking about putting a 250 watt CMH in the fixture. The dye would just sit in there, it wouldn't get hot enough to have to circulate water through it. I hate seeing the fixture just sitting on a shelf.

The photos are from the day I first used the dye. As I said, I was trying to accommodate the lack of white balance feature on my camera. Theses plants were pretty close to being done when I set out to take some budshots. The close-up is Strawberry Cough, BTW. I then grew some LSD under the light and the buds were huge and foxtailed, the plant was dark green after 3 weeks of flushing and had to be pulled before I wanted because I only allowed 9 weeks for it and it went 10. I didn't have much experience with LSD and it was not until I ran the SC under the light did I start to understand the effect the light was having on the plants.

Peace.

 

[cannatari]

Here's a good pic. This is the same exact cut of SC as the X-mas tree plant:

 

[Chana Masala]

Hi C, logged back after email update...

Serious research and find there...

WHAT A DIFFERENCE...

That hps picture (small one) is 600 watts. The first one, x-mas, is under the blue watercooled, right?

Good work brother...

I think you officially hijacked your own thread...

Never knew that could happen...

Hahaha,

Peace out brother,

C

 

[cannatari]

Hey Chana,

High-jacked my own thread, LOL!

Thank you as always for the kind words.

As un-scientific as my experiment was, it was still pretty conclusive. I'm sure you've heard about feeding your plants grow formula for the first couple of weeks of flowering to avoid premature bleaching of the feeder leaves. And also heard of feeding with the flower formula prior to flowering to help initiate flowering and avoid prolonged flowering. Well, which is it? Since I have determined that blue light prohibits bleaching, my next experiment will use blue spectrum light (MH) as a replacement for using the grow formula early in flowering and I'll switch to HPS at an undetermined point in bud development.

BTW, as far as a smoke report on the SC, I will post a smoke report when I can include a side by side comparison of both lighting circumstances. In short, the SC is very resinous but not very stoney. It doesn't taste so much like strawberries, maybe a little. It has skunk overtones mostly. As far as growing the plant, it's a champ. I've had a round or 2 this year that were complete failures but even at the edge of death the SC compared to other plants will always produce resinous buds. I love the pheno of this plant. Everything about her is very symetric and requires very little manicuring, sometimes none at all, when the fan leaves bleach they fall right off. The blue light made it a mess to manicure though, that particular bud was mostly foxtails and tiny, sugary fan leaves.

I'm thinking that red dye in the fixture could inhibit some vegetative functions completely. Note that when you color light with filters it doesn't add that spectrum of light, it just blocks everything else which proves that the plant is influenced not only by a spectrum of light but also by isolation of single wavelengths, lending to the idea that mechanisms within the plant are triggered by specific frequencies of light. I'm pretty sure that science already know this. In the end I hope to be able to intelligently sculpt my growth by using isolated wavelengths of light at different stages of bud development. I guess it's basically a training technique.

 

[Chana Masala]

Well, in a way, you are publishing your finding. Although maybe not a book or a phd after Cannatari, but this is why I respect your insight.

Sharing of information. Thank you.

As for the specturm testing... again, you need more space...lol!

When you gonna come over to my place for a few tweaking sessions?

What say you about, the latter and just using two bulbs of mix spectrum!

Maybe you can work into the future project.

When you mentioned using red dye, was that while under a MH bulb? If so that would be very interesting.

I want to see if your MangoHz can get that big. You mentioned Skunk in the SC, so probably not.

Respect,

Chana

 

[SurfdOut]

Thanks for the input man, like the way your mind works. So you think MH for the first month of flower then switch to the ole HPS?

 

[cannatari]

Hey, SurfdOut.

That is exactly what I'm saying. Full spectrum light triggers all of the light sensitive mechanisms all of the time. Because plants flower in stages, it seems logical that all of the mechanisms are not needed all through flowering. By turning various mechanisms off when they are not needed, I'm thinking that this is the best approach to working with different spectrum of light.

Stay tuned for some experimentation.

Yo, Chana.

As far as any expansion, like you said, it's hard to convert a large garden over for these kind of experiments.

As far as using multiple bulbs goes, as I was just explaining, I think the key is isolated frequencies of light in succession. Using multiple color bulbs at the same time is definitely a good idea for a comparison though.

I'm planning on using a CMH in the red dye experiment, not MH. Like I said, filtered light does not produce a given wavelength of light, it just blocks everything else. Powering a red light with a MH has a lot of waste compared to using an HPS. Either will produce the same color light when filtered but since HPS favors the red side of the spectrum, more photons are available in that color.

Peace.

 

[SurfdOut]

Hi Canna-
This info is so interesting to me as an outdoor hawaiian grower who is setting up his first indo set-up and love researching everything first. So what do you think of those setups that run both HPS and MH at the same time?

Anyhow, I tested germination rates on seeds recently from several different breeders used Reserva Privada, Cali Conn, Dutch Pass, Connoisseur genetics, Mr Nice and others. I was astounded at how much faster the Mr Nices popped and the taproots grew 4-5 times longer than anybody elses in 24 hours.

Hope those mangoes are good, I want some sooo bad.

 

[cannatari]

Hi Canna-
This info is so interesting to me as an outdoor hawaiian grower who is setting up his first indo set-up and love researching everything first. So what do you think of those setups that run both HPS and MH at the same time? I don't have any experience with those fixtures but I think they're a great idea. I have looked into the dual filament bulbs, I can't put my finger on why I don't like them.

Anyhow, I tested germination rates on seeds recently from several different breeders used Reserva Privada, Cali Conn, Dutch Pass, Connoisseur genetics, Mr Nice and others. I was astounded at how much faster the Mr Nices popped and the taproots grew 4-5 times longer than anybody elses in 24 hours.Everyone says they're the freshest beans in town!

Hope those mangoes are good, I want some sooo bad.

Dude, it's driving me crazy...I've been working these beans for 8 weeks and I'm still a couple of weeks from flowering them. They smell real good and that's about all I can tell 'ya.

Peace.

 

[cannatari]

Day 59

Another one of the seedlings is showing pistils in veg. #15, #10, #9 & #14 all show pistils now. The latest, #14, is one of the tall phenos but it's a little bushier than the others. 14 is definitely a performer with the unripened mango smell. She could be the one!

I'm closing in on the magic formula for the MH. 550 ppm is showing alot of improvement but I think even lower might be a little better.

It's been a smart move to allow myself some time to work with these plants. I should be in good shape by the time I start flowering. There would have been failures for sure if I had started flowering from seed.

 

[cannatari]

Day 61

5 plants now showing pistils!!!!

New to the list is #16.

That makes #15, #10 , #9 , #14 and #16! 5/8 sativa phenos are female!

#16 is also very vigorous and unique from the other plants. It's branches have been solid purple from day 1. The pistil I identified is dry and withered at the tip and displaying blood red hues.

All of the short pheno's look and smell alike. The line is really starting to reveal that the variety is in the taller pheno's.

Pheno's #10 and #15 are not performing very well. I've dropped the feed solution down to 450ppm and the plants are taking well to it but these 2 and #11 continue to be out-performed by the rest of the garden. They were the first ones to show pistils though.

#9 continues to stand alone in phenotype. She is tall, bushy and skunky. Overall, she is the best performer.

#12 is the tallest plant of all but has not indicated sex. It is the 2nd best performer of the tall pheno's.

#13 is bushy but suffers the same problems as #10 & #15. #1 and #8 express related problems.

So, 2/3 of the seedlings show good performance.

I have 3 tall pheno's that are excellent performers, are very unique from one another and all showed pistils in veg.

I'm feeling very confident about a keeper or two.