Breeding techniques
- Thread starter Nevil
- Start date
"I have found solid winners in most of the lines I have grown out. In fact my fist run of mns got me addicted it was so good."
That's exactly what happened to me. The La Nina brought me to the Master
"Interesting what you said about the SD musashi, im assuming you meant sour diesel, as the original is sat dominant in structure from what I have seen?"
You are correct and need to clarify. It is the only plant (USA) I have kept that isn't MNS genetics. That's the point I wanted to make.
"I must have spent a couple of thousand dollars on mns genetics, more than i may ever grow but what I do know is there is a legend or 2 waiting to be found."
And I thought it was just me
Aloha nui
M
That's exactly what happened to me. The La Nina brought me to the Master
"Interesting what you said about the SD musashi, im assuming you meant sour diesel, as the original is sat dominant in structure from what I have seen?"
You are correct and need to clarify. It is the only plant (USA) I have kept that isn't MNS genetics. That's the point I wanted to make.
"I must have spent a couple of thousand dollars on mns genetics, more than i may ever grow but what I do know is there is a legend or 2 waiting to be found."
And I thought it was just me
Aloha nui
M
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professorjj
New member
Hi musashi, thanks for clarifying your point, I misunderstood. My apologies
No mate not just you, it is an illness that afflicts many of us.
It's nice to have a back up plan and I like to support the team that supports me..
No mate not just you, it is an illness that afflicts many of us.
It's nice to have a back up plan and I like to support the team that supports me..
CVH
New member
Hi all,
I'm very new to growing and currently trying to study the basics of breeding. (I got the book CBB by Greg Green)
I found the first picture below in this thread but there was no extra information given.
But would the first picture be an example of a breeding practice where heavy inbreeding is combined with linebreeding to create a F1 generation between 2 IBL lines with different homozygous (dominant and recessive) traits. Where both lines will breed 'true' for the selected traits.
So in line A certain traits are selected and made homozygous (dominant or recessive?) and in line B certain other traits are selected and are also made homozygous through inbreeding.
When combining these 2 ibl lines -who have the same F2 male ancestor- together (linebreeding) the offspring will (possibly) be a mix of dominant and recessive traits from both lines which will result in heterosis (hybrid vigour). Where the resulting offspring who are heterozygous for all desirable traits will show the most vigour. As you can see in the F1 generation on the second picture.
If so, is it important that a certain selected trait in for exemple line A has a homozygous dominant (if possible) allele and in line B a specimen has for the same trait an unwanted homozygous recessive allele (deletirous)? As in the dominance model in picture 3. And the other 2 models (overdominance and pseudo-overdominance) are less desirable.
Or am I getting this all wrong and need my basic understanding set straight?
Could someone comment?
Hybrid Vigour (heterosis):
I'm very new to growing and currently trying to study the basics of breeding. (I got the book CBB by Greg Green)
I found the first picture below in this thread but there was no extra information given.
But would the first picture be an example of a breeding practice where heavy inbreeding is combined with linebreeding to create a F1 generation between 2 IBL lines with different homozygous (dominant and recessive) traits. Where both lines will breed 'true' for the selected traits.
So in line A certain traits are selected and made homozygous (dominant or recessive?) and in line B certain other traits are selected and are also made homozygous through inbreeding.
When combining these 2 ibl lines -who have the same F2 male ancestor- together (linebreeding) the offspring will (possibly) be a mix of dominant and recessive traits from both lines which will result in heterosis (hybrid vigour). Where the resulting offspring who are heterozygous for all desirable traits will show the most vigour. As you can see in the F1 generation on the second picture.
If so, is it important that a certain selected trait in for exemple line A has a homozygous dominant (if possible) allele and in line B a specimen has for the same trait an unwanted homozygous recessive allele (deletirous)? As in the dominance model in picture 3. And the other 2 models (overdominance and pseudo-overdominance) are less desirable.
Or am I getting this all wrong and need my basic understanding set straight?
Could someone comment?
Hybrid Vigour (heterosis):
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bluntmassa
Well-known member
You do know Blue Dream is just SSH X Blueberry right? American genetics are the same as Dutch and Canadian genetics.
If none had dense buds well you are doing something wrong. The Haze hybrids are not dense like the more Afghan lines for obvious reasons. USA strains are more of the Skunk, Afghan hybrids so they grow a more dense bud like you will find in the Skunk and Afghan dominant lines. Cash cropper lines quick flower dense buds its all they work with out west for the most part they call Blue Dream a sativa when in reality SSH is not even a sativa just a very good hybrid but most all take more than 9 weeks unlike Blue Dream.
But personally I'm happy with my pollen chucks of MNS weed though MNS may not be here without the USA since G13, Skunk, Haze, Spice, probably more came from the USA thanks to Nevil. Though the Widow lines are all Shanti well sort of that goes to Indian and Brazilian growers but like Nevil Shanti made them available to the public.
But I don't care grow what you like it all comes from the same genetics and very little have done actual breeding that has improved the plant significantly last I heard AK47 was still placing in the Cannabis Cup.
Broseidon
Active member
I grew AK47 in early 2000 from Nirvana.
Back then Nirvana was openly F2ing other people's stuff and selling it as F2s for cheap.
The plants were great, really great.
So when I started again last year, I wanted some AK47 for sure. This time I had more funds so I was going to go with the original from Serious.
I remember in early 2000 there was already a discussion if the Nirvana AK47 isn't better because rumors were circulating that Serious lost a parent in a bust.
At some point back then, Serious leaned heavily on Nirvana and they took their AK47 F2s off the market and replaced them with an unrelated AK48, which is a different strain (northern lights cross if I remember right).
Ever since, Serious has claimed that they are still the same as pre 2k, all original, no changes. Over on ICmag they are still claiming that today.
At the same time, when confronted, they cannot completely deny that AK47 was changed as a parent was lost. If I remember correctly, they replaced the lost AK47 parent with The Chronic.
Ever since AK47 reports are damning.
The consensus is that the strain has been ruined and is dead. The only people still growing it are newbies who naively believe Serious when they say things are still the same as they used to be, AK47 included.
The next consensus I found was:
If you want AK47, then go with White Russian from Serious. It's AK47xWhite Widow and is supposedly closer to the original AK47 than the AK47 itself.
Other than that, trust me, I have searched far and wide.
Apparently there is no AK47 to be had.
I am still hoping/waiting on someone creating a new seedline from old beans or using old beans to find a male and use an elite AK47 clone. There must be clones around still as well as seeds.
But through regular channels, it looks quite certain that AK47 is dead. Sadly.
Back then Nirvana was openly F2ing other people's stuff and selling it as F2s for cheap.
The plants were great, really great.
So when I started again last year, I wanted some AK47 for sure. This time I had more funds so I was going to go with the original from Serious.
I remember in early 2000 there was already a discussion if the Nirvana AK47 isn't better because rumors were circulating that Serious lost a parent in a bust.
At some point back then, Serious leaned heavily on Nirvana and they took their AK47 F2s off the market and replaced them with an unrelated AK48, which is a different strain (northern lights cross if I remember right).
Ever since, Serious has claimed that they are still the same as pre 2k, all original, no changes. Over on ICmag they are still claiming that today.
At the same time, when confronted, they cannot completely deny that AK47 was changed as a parent was lost. If I remember correctly, they replaced the lost AK47 parent with The Chronic.
Ever since AK47 reports are damning.
The consensus is that the strain has been ruined and is dead. The only people still growing it are newbies who naively believe Serious when they say things are still the same as they used to be, AK47 included.
The next consensus I found was:
If you want AK47, then go with White Russian from Serious. It's AK47xWhite Widow and is supposedly closer to the original AK47 than the AK47 itself.
Other than that, trust me, I have searched far and wide.
Apparently there is no AK47 to be had.
I am still hoping/waiting on someone creating a new seedline from old beans or using old beans to find a male and use an elite AK47 clone. There must be clones around still as well as seeds.
But through regular channels, it looks quite certain that AK47 is dead. Sadly.
Broseidon
Active member
You could possibly get some "actual AK47" in assorted crosses...
Jordan of the Islands did a bunch of AK47 crosses for example.
But when you gotta look in crosses for something, I think it shows how far gone that strain is. Really a damn shame.
What's a bigger shame though is how Serious is misleading the public about "it all being the same as it ever was" while all reports of AK47 growers state that it clearly is not.
Jordan of the Islands did a bunch of AK47 crosses for example.
But when you gotta look in crosses for something, I think it shows how far gone that strain is. Really a damn shame.
What's a bigger shame though is how Serious is misleading the public about "it all being the same as it ever was" while all reports of AK47 growers state that it clearly is not.
Yep yep. Had a friend lay a nice tight well trimmed AK47 nug on me several months ago. Got me to thinking. Good bag appeal but IME there is absolutely no comparison to NL5/Haze. While I will still need to dial this variety in, having grown it only for the second time, my last NL5/Haze grow was rocketfuel. I swear I left the launchpad without my shoes...
Cool runnin braddahs
M
sensient
Well-known member
Hey guys..yeah the old ak wasnt a bad smoke...nice bag appeal..especiallt the dark green large caylx pheno....but i must say...it really wasnt that special..Sensi star was my go to back in the day..now thats a line i wish would of remained original...just cant find the same plants in the fem version...im not a big fan of fem...but has anyone tried fem ak...wondering if its closer to the original? Could of just s1,d an orig ak cut..would be second gen..maybe nit as stable?
Broseidon
Active member
Plenty of people have tried all forms of AK since the 2000s.
There are plenty of reports around the web.
Most conclude something like this:
"I grew out 4 packs and haven't found a single satisfying plant like the ones I grew pre 2k" or something of the sort.
The only positive reports on AK since Serious lost a parent and replaced it with "The Chronic" are from newbies who don't know better.
There are plenty of reports around the web.
Most conclude something like this:
"I grew out 4 packs and haven't found a single satisfying plant like the ones I grew pre 2k" or something of the sort.
The only positive reports on AK since Serious lost a parent and replaced it with "The Chronic" are from newbies who don't know better.
deran
Member
i had a few encounters with ak as well, but i never had the urge - like with some other strains - to find its phenotypical limits, it was always a nice sativa buzz, comparable to a good power plant or to sensis silver haze, a simple sativa kick that whistles in your ears, keeps you (contrary to hazes) on a constant uppy wire, and lets you calm down without burn out, the taste was always especially pine like, woodsy and resiny, there was a part of indica felt in the body, tho indica is already a too strong word for the feeling it induced, compared to their kali mist, which hadnt that body at all
i never understood whats so special about her, besides its growth expresions, indoor friendly
the choices are all over the place if you want a plant like that, would be stupid just to concentrate on her, as im sure there are better alternatives .. like, just as an example, a c99, which is fruitier (yeah are all after the red cherry pheno lol - btw you can find cherry also within belladonna from luc) and a nicer sativa kick, and even faster, if you want something more extreme, get yourself a haze cross .. and so on .. and so on ...
ak is for me just a nice compact, fast, noob friendly small thingy; i do remember when i had a meter of ww and a meter of ak ... both very similiar, ww having more body and beeing more monodimensional, tunnel like, while ak didnt open the skull that wide either, the russian, tho from the total opposite of the spectrum beeing the best to me, tho very strong and indica, it has the most "personality" ...
not easy to speak about subjective inner aspects lol
i never understood whats so special about her, besides its growth expresions, indoor friendly
the choices are all over the place if you want a plant like that, would be stupid just to concentrate on her, as im sure there are better alternatives .. like, just as an example, a c99, which is fruitier (yeah are all after the red cherry pheno lol - btw you can find cherry also within belladonna from luc) and a nicer sativa kick, and even faster, if you want something more extreme, get yourself a haze cross .. and so on .. and so on ...
ak is for me just a nice compact, fast, noob friendly small thingy; i do remember when i had a meter of ww and a meter of ak ... both very similiar, ww having more body and beeing more monodimensional, tunnel like, while ak didnt open the skull that wide either, the russian, tho from the total opposite of the spectrum beeing the best to me, tho very strong and indica, it has the most "personality" ...
not easy to speak about subjective inner aspects lol
Broseidon
Active member
True that.
Back then we were deciding between C99 from Bros Grimm (had just been out for a year or two) and AK47 F2 from Nirvana. Went with Nirvana due to budget.
Now that I am "back" and AK47 seems dead, I went with the C99 from peakseeds as many of you might already know from Broseidon's corner.
The idea was exactly what deran said: Basically a "fruitier" replacement for the AK47 in my stable.
However, so far, with only 2 ladies flowered out, the C99 was not it, yet.
Have lots more beans to go through with that strain but so far the 2 I harvested did not convince me. Taste and smell is not fruity and the effect is kind of lackluster.
Still waiting on what the cure will bring out from the ladies but doesnt look too promising atm.
It could well be nostalgia but from what I remember, the AK47 was just more potent. Could have been the particular pheno as well though.
But from the effect, I would agree. The C99 and other sativa leaning hybrids do provide a similar experience. Just not as potent, to me, so far.
Could well be I find a C99 pheno in the future that does perfectly replace the AK though. Haven't given up yet
Back then we were deciding between C99 from Bros Grimm (had just been out for a year or two) and AK47 F2 from Nirvana. Went with Nirvana due to budget.
Now that I am "back" and AK47 seems dead, I went with the C99 from peakseeds as many of you might already know from Broseidon's corner.
The idea was exactly what deran said: Basically a "fruitier" replacement for the AK47 in my stable.
However, so far, with only 2 ladies flowered out, the C99 was not it, yet.
Have lots more beans to go through with that strain but so far the 2 I harvested did not convince me. Taste and smell is not fruity and the effect is kind of lackluster.
Still waiting on what the cure will bring out from the ladies but doesnt look too promising atm.
It could well be nostalgia but from what I remember, the AK47 was just more potent. Could have been the particular pheno as well though.
But from the effect, I would agree. The C99 and other sativa leaning hybrids do provide a similar experience. Just not as potent, to me, so far.
Could well be I find a C99 pheno in the future that does perfectly replace the AK though. Haven't given up yet
IMJ, still one of the best threads on the subject.
Cool runnin braddahs AND sistas
M