C
coop
Guest
the future?
Breeding techniques
- Thread starter Nevil
- Start date
the future?
joshuahazen
New member
The ideal thing to do would be to find a seedstrain that is strong in the traits that you are trying to improve.
For example if you are looking for better yeild and structure, seek a strain that would compliment yours, look for a strain that has a high yield and the structure you are seeking, and then seek a superior male within that strain.
Don't worry so much if it is an IBL or whatever, think more in terms of: Does this strain have the characteristics I am looking for. Just because the strain fits the bill doesn't necessarily mean it will cross well with your clone, so it will be difficult enough to find that perfect seedstrain which not only has the traits you are seeking but also crosses well with your clone.
kashrocks
New member
For those who missed it here is a link to an interesting article :
The Ins and Outs of Pedigree Analysis, Genetic Diversity, and Genetic Disease Control
Peace.
K.
The Ins and Outs of Pedigree Analysis, Genetic Diversity, and Genetic Disease Control
Peace.
K.
stingmenot
New member
Epigenetic memory
Here is a possible selection pathway to consider.
Science News
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Epigenetic 'Memory' Key to Nature Versus Nurture
ScienceDaily (July 25, 2011) — Researchers at the John Innes Centre have made a discovery, reported this evening (24 July) in Nature, that explains how an organism can create a biological memory of some variable condition, such as quality of nutrition or temperature. The discovery explains the mechanism of this memory -- a sort of biological switch -- and how it can also be inherited by offspring.
The work was led by Professor Martin Howard and Professor Caroline Dean at the John Innes Centre.
Professor Dean said "There are quite a few examples that we now know of where the activity of genes can be affected in the long term by environmental factors. And in some cases the environment of an individual can actually affect the biology or physiology of their offspring but there is no change to the genome sequence."
For example, some studies have shown that in families where there was a severe food shortage in the grandparents' generation, the children and grandchildren have a greater risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes, which could be explained by epigenetic memory. But until now there hasn't been a clear mechanism to explain how individuals could develop a "memory" of a variable factor, such as nutrition.
The team used the example of how plants "remember" the length of the cold winter period in order to exquisitely time flowering so that pollination, development, seed dispersal and germination can all happen at the appropriate time.
Professor Howard said "We already knew quite a lot about the genes involved in flowering and it was clear that something goes on in winter that affects the timing of flowering, according to the length of the cold period."
Using a combination of mathematical modelling and experimental analysis the team has uncovered the system by which a key gene called FLC is either completely off or completely on in any one cell and also later in its progeny. They found that the longer the cold period, the higher the proportion of cells that have FLC stably flipped to the off position. This delays flowering and is down to a phenomenon known as epigenetic memory.
Epigenetic memory comes in various guises, but one important form involves histones -- the proteins around which DNA is wrapped. Particular chemical modifications can be attached to histones and these modifications can then affect the expression of nearby genes, turning them on or off. These modifications can be inherited by daughter cells, when the cells divide, and if they occur in the cells that form gametes (e.g. sperm in mammals or pollen in plants) then they can also pass on to offspring.
Together with Dr Andrew Angel (also at the John Innes Centre), Professor Howard produced a mathematical model of the FLC system. The model predicted that inside each individual cell, the FLC gene should be either completely activated or completely silenced, with the fraction of cells switching to the silenced state increasing with longer periods of cold.
To provide experimental evidence to back up the model, Dr Jie Song in Prof. Dean's group used a technique where any cell that had the FLC gene switched on, showed up blue under a microscope. From her observations, it was clear that cells were either completely switched or not switched at all, in agreement with the theory.
Dr Song also showed that the histone proteins near the FLC gene were modified during the cold period, in such a way that would account for the switching off of the gene.
Funding for the project came from BBSRC, the European Research Council, and The Royal Society.
Professor Douglas Kell, Chief Executive, BBSRC said "This work not only gives us insight into a phenomenon that is crucial for future food security -- the timing of flowering according to climate variation -- but it uncovers an important mechanism that is at play right across biology. This is a great example of where the research that BBSRC funds can provide not only a focus on real life problems, but also a grounding in the fundamental tenets of biology that will underpin the future of the field. It also demonstrates the value of multidisciplinary working at the interface between biology, physics and mathematics."
Here is a possible selection pathway to consider.
Science News
Share Blog Cite
Print Bookmark Email
Epigenetic 'Memory' Key to Nature Versus Nurture
ScienceDaily (July 25, 2011) — Researchers at the John Innes Centre have made a discovery, reported this evening (24 July) in Nature, that explains how an organism can create a biological memory of some variable condition, such as quality of nutrition or temperature. The discovery explains the mechanism of this memory -- a sort of biological switch -- and how it can also be inherited by offspring.
The work was led by Professor Martin Howard and Professor Caroline Dean at the John Innes Centre.
Professor Dean said "There are quite a few examples that we now know of where the activity of genes can be affected in the long term by environmental factors. And in some cases the environment of an individual can actually affect the biology or physiology of their offspring but there is no change to the genome sequence."
For example, some studies have shown that in families where there was a severe food shortage in the grandparents' generation, the children and grandchildren have a greater risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes, which could be explained by epigenetic memory. But until now there hasn't been a clear mechanism to explain how individuals could develop a "memory" of a variable factor, such as nutrition.
The team used the example of how plants "remember" the length of the cold winter period in order to exquisitely time flowering so that pollination, development, seed dispersal and germination can all happen at the appropriate time.
Professor Howard said "We already knew quite a lot about the genes involved in flowering and it was clear that something goes on in winter that affects the timing of flowering, according to the length of the cold period."
Using a combination of mathematical modelling and experimental analysis the team has uncovered the system by which a key gene called FLC is either completely off or completely on in any one cell and also later in its progeny. They found that the longer the cold period, the higher the proportion of cells that have FLC stably flipped to the off position. This delays flowering and is down to a phenomenon known as epigenetic memory.
Epigenetic memory comes in various guises, but one important form involves histones -- the proteins around which DNA is wrapped. Particular chemical modifications can be attached to histones and these modifications can then affect the expression of nearby genes, turning them on or off. These modifications can be inherited by daughter cells, when the cells divide, and if they occur in the cells that form gametes (e.g. sperm in mammals or pollen in plants) then they can also pass on to offspring.
Together with Dr Andrew Angel (also at the John Innes Centre), Professor Howard produced a mathematical model of the FLC system. The model predicted that inside each individual cell, the FLC gene should be either completely activated or completely silenced, with the fraction of cells switching to the silenced state increasing with longer periods of cold.
To provide experimental evidence to back up the model, Dr Jie Song in Prof. Dean's group used a technique where any cell that had the FLC gene switched on, showed up blue under a microscope. From her observations, it was clear that cells were either completely switched or not switched at all, in agreement with the theory.
Dr Song also showed that the histone proteins near the FLC gene were modified during the cold period, in such a way that would account for the switching off of the gene.
Funding for the project came from BBSRC, the European Research Council, and The Royal Society.
Professor Douglas Kell, Chief Executive, BBSRC said "This work not only gives us insight into a phenomenon that is crucial for future food security -- the timing of flowering according to climate variation -- but it uncovers an important mechanism that is at play right across biology. This is a great example of where the research that BBSRC funds can provide not only a focus on real life problems, but also a grounding in the fundamental tenets of biology that will underpin the future of the field. It also demonstrates the value of multidisciplinary working at the interface between biology, physics and mathematics."
read all the 100 pages and im feeling smarter took me some time to finish it all with references and all but lots of usefull info and some good points.
I personally would like to add that seed making in a commercial scale is not IMO incompatible with seed making and selling, one can always open pollinate the original seeds to make 1000 of seeds with it... preserving in the original countrys is many times impossible anyway.
Even though this part is obvious enough another problem might arise, what if the seeds we are making cant stand environmental stress of being reintroduced in the wild? is in any way the fact of most growers do it indoor related to this? how can we know this without better research and time i have no idea...
also were is nevil? is contribution to this thread is so much welcome to the passionate reader like me and others please post away m8 and share the know how!
I personally would like to add that seed making in a commercial scale is not IMO incompatible with seed making and selling, one can always open pollinate the original seeds to make 1000 of seeds with it... preserving in the original countrys is many times impossible anyway.
Even though this part is obvious enough another problem might arise, what if the seeds we are making cant stand environmental stress of being reintroduced in the wild? is in any way the fact of most growers do it indoor related to this? how can we know this without better research and time i have no idea...
also were is nevil? is contribution to this thread is so much welcome to the passionate reader like me and others please post away m8 and share the know how!
Skunkha
New member
great post
this helps my thinking about genetics/environment which seemed in conflict somewhat. this article enlightens me towards better understanding the interaction of these entities.
Shanti has mentioned how he can give the same genetics to a variety of growers yet the plants will grow out differently due to the grower's conditions. according to this article, these differences will be "remembered".
good first post. anything else to share?
best regards,S.
this helps my thinking about genetics/environment which seemed in conflict somewhat. this article enlightens me towards better understanding the interaction of these entities.
Shanti has mentioned how he can give the same genetics to a variety of growers yet the plants will grow out differently due to the grower's conditions. according to this article, these differences will be "remembered".
good first post. anything else to share?
best regards,S.
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Bambi
New member
I was just thinking how cool it might be to make and breed a surper fast skunk plant/indica,'' - I know exciting as it sounds it would be a tricky one eh''
The fastest plants ive ever seen was a 5/half week stinky pinky plant with not much vigor or yield, plus one of my own with this same 5 half week flowering time by using a skunk one mum and a fast affie/1 mother with hermie tendicies and why i biffed it, just a thought'
The fastest plants ive ever seen was a 5/half week stinky pinky plant with not much vigor or yield, plus one of my own with this same 5 half week flowering time by using a skunk one mum and a fast affie/1 mother with hermie tendicies and why i biffed it, just a thought'
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nuteburn
Guest
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sour power
Member
nev just wanted to say thanks.i made a special folder just for this and got a lot of great info.its terrible that some people spoiled it for others
but on a side note im am greatful of what i did get.thanks bro u are very much appreciated for what u have done and what u have offered out of that breeding mind of yours
peace and may the rest of what u do for cannabis be great as it already has God bless!
but on a side note im am greatful of what i did get.thanks bro u are very much appreciated for what u have done and what u have offered out of that breeding mind of yourspeace and may the rest of what u do for cannabis be great as it already has God bless!
SKeTChy
New member
Question about grafting and breeding...
here is my situation. I have very limited space to hold any breeding program (once pollination is started) Here is something I was thinking about.
If I were to do all the selecting and such for the females.. Can I do the following to save on space?
Graft all selected phenotypes onto a base plant so example
(only examples)
take 15 skunk females culled down to the top 5 or 4. take those and graft them all to one base plant (one set of all 4-5 phenos for each male intended) then pollinate with said male. Would this provide me with the same results as using whole body plants? this would cut my numbers down and space needed considerably...
here is my situation. I have very limited space to hold any breeding program (once pollination is started) Here is something I was thinking about.
If I were to do all the selecting and such for the females.. Can I do the following to save on space?
Graft all selected phenotypes onto a base plant so example
(only examples)
take 15 skunk females culled down to the top 5 or 4. take those and graft them all to one base plant (one set of all 4-5 phenos for each male intended) then pollinate with said male. Would this provide me with the same results as using whole body plants? this would cut my numbers down and space needed considerably...
N
nuteburn
Guest
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SKeTChy
New member
Thanks for the reply nuteburn
Something I've noticed on this site so far.. is the abundance of knowledgeable people and how quickly that you get answers to questions, I have personally had for years have been answered in a day or 2 threw searching,some awesome,comments and a couple private messages. Too cool! not to mention that the Bonsai mother thing is getting put into the game ASAP!! Too many positives to ignore Not to mention "THIS THREAD RIGHT HERE
)
Something I've noticed on this site so far.. is the abundance of knowledgeable people and how quickly that you get answers to questions, I have personally had for years have been answered in a day or 2 threw searching,some awesome,comments and a couple private messages. Too cool! not to mention that the Bonsai mother thing is getting put into the game ASAP!! Too many positives to ignore Not to mention "THIS THREAD RIGHT HERE
)Personally, I would only resort to grafting as a last resort. What you are suggesting is certainly feasible but in my limited experience grafting was time consuming and not worth the effort.
I would try a combination of shorter light periods (e.g. 10/14) and pruning if you're restricted for space - you can get a reasonable amount of seed from a few flowers.
I would try a combination of shorter light periods (e.g. 10/14) and pruning if you're restricted for space - you can get a reasonable amount of seed from a few flowers.
C
coop
Guest
grafting take a while for the plant to recover.
But it would be an awesome idea to have a 4 way out door bush.
But it would be an awesome idea to have a 4 way out door bush.
south african
New member
hilarious...but its like fishing,some like catfish some carp...
stonesplitter
New member
diversity
Just cracking some of my own older seeds to save the diversity.. I put alot of effort into isolating the pheno I preferred, almost forgot some of the other priceless phenos locked in those seeds.. we are all responsible to keep these genetics safe and alive and well. I also don't believe indoor breeding will jeopardize these varieties from outdoor survival at the right latitude. Important to grow with lots of ventilation and not too hot. DOn't select to adapt to hot steamy indoor situs . They grow just fine 18-22 c (65-72F) .Oscillating fans are great for imitating natural wind. "plant those seeds and keep prices down!"
Just cracking some of my own older seeds to save the diversity.. I put alot of effort into isolating the pheno I preferred, almost forgot some of the other priceless phenos locked in those seeds.. we are all responsible to keep these genetics safe and alive and well. I also don't believe indoor breeding will jeopardize these varieties from outdoor survival at the right latitude. Important to grow with lots of ventilation and not too hot. DOn't select to adapt to hot steamy indoor situs . They grow just fine 18-22 c (65-72F) .Oscillating fans are great for imitating natural wind. "plant those seeds and keep prices down!"
india sherpa
New member
save the gene pool?
hes sayin guys who buy 2 packs arnt into anything other than growing a few keeper mums...and that a few packs is gonna land you some killa....but to save the genepool....man the sample is in the thousands !
i dont think that you need to preserve the gene pool- just dont fuck it up by bringing hybrids into india afghanistan and other places where landraces grow...
mother nature is preserving the gene pool!!!!!!!!!!!!all you have to do is not fucking it up.
all the guys out there growing and breeding... full respect...
mother nature is preserving the gene pool!!!!!!!!!!!!all you have to do is not fucking it up.
all the guys out there growing and breeding... full respect...
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