Breeding techniques

first off, bh you said this male was so sticky it could not drop pollen? you don't mean that literally cause this is your stud or did i miss something?

and on this bigger problem of the raucous nature of the forum, for the life of me i don't understand why it persists. someone said dont feed the trolls and that is a good place to start. this house belongs to shanti and nevil and it is their words i come here to read first and foremost. and i'm guessing this is true with the majority of the membership? writing a book is not a bad idea nevil, but do it online. open up topics that are fun for you as well as learning for the majority. i was always a good student but at my best when i was into the lecture so i do not think using structure common to an academic setting should be out of the question? something equivalent to raising your hand and the teacher will call on you? i can be terribly stupid myself as much of this material is new to me, some very old. lol. i mentioned once before that i came here to learn and a couple of folks laughed at me. but what other reason is there besides learning? constructive reason i.e. peace-biteme
 
I don't recall saying he didn't drop pollen due to being too sticky. He was very sticky but I had to kill him before he had dropped pollen, the flowers hadn't started to open drop pollen when he died.
 
Do you mean a male with similar traits that is not related?
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Yes.
By opposite types do you mean, for example, a Haze and NL5 - indica and sativa?
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Yes.
For example; Sk1 and Garlic are very similar types but come from separate sources.
NL2 and Kush were also similar but unrelated. You can use these similarities to create more complex hybrids that have a predictable outcome, whilst at the same time, optimise the advantages of hybrid vigour.

It has often been observed that IBL's lack yield. This is generally only true when they are being compared with hybrids.
N.
 
Nevil said:
That's what I look for as well as the smell which is usually just as apparent. Had you done a couple of 1:1 matings with this male, it might have been interesting to reinforce this male through doubling up on it in future matings. It really sucks to loose things we had hopes for, most of us know about that.
N.
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british_hempire said:
In my albeit limited experience males are like females in that the resin comes not long after the flowers have started forming. I wish I still had the pic but I have had a male that had as much resin as any female I've seen and it was all over not just the male flower but the stem as well. It was a Tres Dawg by JJ-NYC, I lost it when I pulled that grow down due to a security problem. That male never even got as far as dropping pollen and it was already plastered in resin. But that was unusual, I've seen a lot of males that had very little resin.
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Thanks for info guys. I got a oaxacan x choc thai male that just started stacking flowers but with no visible resin yet. Stem rubbing gives off an almost menthol smell which I thought was wierd. I wanted to make more seed to play with later since it appears that I can't find a source for this combo.

sp
 
Nevil said:
Every day I wake up to a bunch of PMs from people wanting to know how I bred this, asking for help with their projects, seeking clarification on that, wanting a definition of certain terms and generally answers to questions that will require an hour of my time each to answer, not to mention the follow up questions. A lot of them even show annoyance that I haven't responded quick enough to their demands.

I thought the best way to be of service would be to start this thread on breeding. I can't answer all your questions privately and many of you have similar questions.

Another demand that is often made to me by PM, is why don't I do something about this or that person who is attacking THEM in one thread or another. Do you really think I can do something about disruptive and uncouth people?

N,
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Nevil, first off I' once again want to re-enforce that MANY of us appreciate your taking the time to be here and share your knowledge and ideas.

I doubt fame's all its cracked up to be!

Perhaps you could turn off your PMs. then you wont be buried each day. then you could peruse, comment and answer at your leisure and want.

After you explained your purpose/goal in this thread, I would have thought things might have gotten easier...guess not.I've learned a few things already. thanks!

As for site moderation...in a later post of yours and others have mentioned it also. I passed a link to admini...dont know if he looked at it? one thing i do know from watching forums for years, your best off with a bit more of an iron fist....up front. not to stop the newbs but to stop the asshats. simple rule.. don't be an asshole...or you'll get warned...then banned.
its really not that hard to play nice. but some folks don't get it, shoot them down before the whole board gets all worked up. Guess thats more Shantis call.
 
good post az ,
i think most forget about what the male offers ,
all i hear is "i selected a vigerous male" ,
everyone sees what the female offers visually ,, by smell and taste ,and by indulging in the product , but what about the other 50% .????
 
I guess this is why progeny testing is so important. Not just for the obvious reason of finding out if it was a good cross, but also to find out which males are recessive. Very cool stuff. Thanks Az.

G4G
 
Azra'eil said:
hello donald :) thats true, finding the good father is important, a bit like us, we need to have something special to our lady, maybe in order to be a good father ? ( well not too soon...lol)
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absolutely ..
i hope nevil doesnt mind me taking alittle space to explain what first got me interested in genetics ..
i was the only one in my family that had blue eyes , none other , all uncles aunts ,, grandparents and etc ,, all had hazel , brown eyes , a freak ,, lol ..

my wife that i had a son with has blue eyes , though his mother has brown eyes , was enough to spark an interest for me anyhows ...
 
jim dankness said:
That's a point of clarification I've been looking for. Thank you, Nevil! I'm still not sure what to make of some of what Ed told me on this subject (some of which seems true, some of which seems like total hooey).

Since it's been confirmed that the Ortega/Maple Leaf lines came from Jim Ortega, one lingering question is: who was Maple Leaf Wilson, and where was he from?

Unclepeter, Ortega 1-3 are post-Seed Bank/post-Green Merchant continuations of Nevil's work by another dutch seed company (Dutch Passion, I believe?). I'm guessing they would have appeared in the '91 catalog, if not for unforeseen circumstances.
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Thanks for the info JD, I often see refs to an Cali Ortega and then to a Canadian Ortega so where both different lines? or just slightly dif lines etc?
on DP they state their Ortega as a NL1xHP which I believe is #3, so 2 dif Orts types used for BD, ML and the MC. So anyone know the dif between a Cali and a Canadian type????
 
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Nevil said:
I don't really know where to go from here. Maybe I should write a book instead.
N,
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On that note, are there any books you do suggest? Or should One gain knowledge from trial and error?



I found I have a crude copy of R. C. Clarke's Cannabis Botany that I'm going to make sure is reading order.



It seems to me, though, that there really isn't a "right or wrong", or certain sequence one should follow in breeding, but rather trying and testing that will prevail. Obviously, tricks like crossing opposites and crossing similar plants from different gene pools are certainly going to help with successful crosses, but in the end, I believe it all boils down to trial and error, observation and judgment. Would my assessment be correct?
 
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The Ortega clone used by Breeder Steve for LUI originally came from Ed...

Peace.

K.

Some pics from Steve:

SOL Ortega3 clone
Ortega3cola.jpg


SOL Ortegadry
Ortegadry6d7.jpg
 
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it all boils down to trial and error, observation and judgement. Would my assessment be correct?
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Yes it would, however you can tip the odds more in your favour, but there is no substitute for experience. Every time you start a packet of quality seeds, you're at the cutting edge. What will you do next. Have you lost elite plants because you weren't prepared? If you have this elite cut, can you conceive of the ideal mate for it? Have you got taste, do you have a vision? Breeding your own strains is very rewarding.
N.
 
Donald Mallard said:
absolutely ..
i hope nevil doesnt mind me taking alittle space to explain what first got me interested in genetics ..
i was the only one in my family that had blue eyes , none other , all uncles aunts ,, grandparents and etc ,, all had hazel , brown eyes , a freak ,, lol ..

my wife that i had a son with has blue eyes , though his mother has brown eyes , was enough to spark an interest for me anyhows ...
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An the eyes of the milkman where? lol
 
Azra'eil said:


Recessive males are males that have a large number of double recessive genes for the traits most sought after by MJ breeders. Ie aa as opposed to Aa or AA. If you know something about genetics there should be a light bulb going on right now.


These males can be identified easily in some cases, because unlike dominant males which flower earlier than sibling females the recessive males flower later.
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Hello all, could somebody please help me here. I have heard some people saying that longer budding males were more desirable. To me this never made sense.

In my experience, longer budding males tend to lead to offspring with longer budding females, and shorter budding males have a tendency to lead to offspring with shorter budding females.

The idea that somehow a male with overall traits that would be somehow "recessive" allowing overall superior traits to dominate in its female offspring, and that these particular males all seem to have longer budding cycles... Well that just doesn't make sense to me, and I have not seen evidence of that in all my years of breeding.

However, I have found even stranger things than this to be true on occasion, so while I remain very skeptical about the idea, I am not ready to dismiss it offhand.

Can anybody verify this? Has anyone else experienced this? The guy who originally said this, said he learned it from Shanti who learned it from Nevil.
Is it true Nevil? Is it really that simple? Should we all just try to find the longest budding males, because they are so called "recessive males"?
Generally, have your male clones all been the males with a longer budding cycle? Is there any truth to this statement?

Thank you.
 
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