Breeding techniques

Big Ups BH, nice to be passionate about the plant again eh?

I found the same passion about 6 months ago too... I probably think Nevi's energy helped spark the new direction.

Happy to see you found yours and having great ideas to work towards... who knows... maybe you will open up shop one day again!

On your thought above, I beleive SB did something similar with Critical Haze (Critical Mass x Afghan Haze) still not sure which haze was used though.

CM

Sorry Chana for not responding to your thoughtful post until now, i let a troll distract me.

Yeah, I have some passion back, some of the recent trolling has made me step back a bit while things cool down, I'm much more interested in the community and sharing with folks than actually participating in the debate so I tend to be more active in PMs than posts these days, more peaceful that way.

Shanti did some very interesting things with the Afghan Skunk and Afghan Haze, I find it fascinating to study how he was used those males to make the new strains. Wish I could afford to buy all of them just to have em in my stash. I'll have to make do with the Med Man and SSH I have waiting to flower and hope some of the newer work eventually finds its way to me.
 
So let Me get this right

I Have A Question For You Nevil, See If You Can Spot The Difference You Racist Prick.

One Is A Spoon Burner And The Other Is A Spoon Bender :D:D:D

One is fro real, and one is a fraud? One is honest and is backed up by his friends and one is called a liar by his friends? One belongs to God, the Other belongs to Lucifer? One loves money and the Other has nothing to his name?
Am I correct? Yes? Ok then! I do care about what a mans spirit trully is like.


Uri Geller:
his friends, his relatives, his girl friends and his managers and all others who worked with him are ready to swear by all that is dear to them that Geller is a cheat and a liar; and they are able to demonstrate with their own hands all of his tricks that he used in order to create his reputation. According to them, Geller learned personal data - special obscure details and information about individulas (both true and false) - which he used to support his claims to special poweres of divination.
Uri Geller, born of a father who is an officer in the Israeli Armed Forces, told all who asked that he was born of a circus family and in one place that he was born in Cyprus. But the simple truth is that he is an Israeli, and that is an indisbutable fact. He travelled to Cyprus with his mother and his stepfather when he was twelve years old, and that was the first time he had left Israel.

Thanks for the comparasin, and as Elmer would say:
Thanks for sharin!
 
Is admini the person that activates new memberships?
I think so. Just so you understand, I don't do anything except talk to you boys.
To be honest, I don't really think that I'm cut out for this moderator shit. My policy would be to give ppl a holiday if they forgot their manners or the rules. Some will take it as a personal insult even though I don't know who the fuck they are and we'd have 20 Japfreaks screaming racism and plotting insane vengeance. I'd probably have to temp ban myself now and again for loosing it with the freaks. Half of you are insane, you know that. (The other half know who I'm talking about.) See, no diplomacy!

My agenda is transparent. Among you insane bunch of rabble, there are some fine growers and breeders and some pretty nice people. Some excellent plants have been grown by people just as passionate about things as me. I'm doing what I did 25 years ago. I'm searching the planet for the best genetics and I intend combining them with the outstanding genetic base Shanti and I already have. Then we are going to make the best available to you. Some ppl would like to thwart our collective efforts. They'll fail. It's not 1984 any more and I am many and they are few this time.

If I look at the pictures of me and Uri Geller, I just see a couple of white guys with pointy noses, but I'm the one with the block of the best Mazari that JF never smoked.
Oooh! he called me a junkie on a forum with ppl who take drugs of which probably half are almost single handedly supporting the illegal and pharmaceutical drug industries. I'll get over it.
N.
 
Dang, we got off track. Where were we...?

Oh Yeah.

Nevil is the Luther Burbank of Dope!

Haters Recognize.

Thanks Nevil, for putting up with these fools, Let the Haters Hate, while the rest of us appreciate.

Lets keep it real.

2011 is here and the time is now!
 
G`day Josh
Yep looks like it might be time to invest in a few shares ....
haterade.jpg

Looks like consumption is at an all time high ,
buy low sell high my motto .

Oh a suggestion for our soundtrack to this canna montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnbdXWvmysg

Thanks for sharin
Elmer Bud
 
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As cannabis slowly gains acceptance as a ligitimate enterprise, breeders will have to lift their game. Just look at the serious breeders of anything legal, Chrysanthemums, birds, dogs, horses etc. Read some of the books written by these people. Study the online pedigree data bases, we've got some catching up to do. Pedigrees are a written record of what master breeders did, that was successful. Your insights will not come from a scientific journal. Books with catchy titles like "Patterns of Greatness" and "Inbreeding to Superior Females" will steer you in the right direction.
N.
 
Your insights will not come from a scientific journal.

Since your catchy titled books full of pseudoscientific experiences aren't available I recommend some in this community crack a real book. Maybe one that's been peer reviewed would be a good start.

'Patterns of Greatness?' Yeah, I checked that out, it's called 'Principles of Plant Breeding' by Robert W Allard. He explained most of the great patterns I've seen in the plant kingdom.
 
is this the kinda stuff your talking about
Yes, he's named a common breeding practise after himself (no shortage of big egos in any breeding field) but his observations are relevant.
You will note that inbreeding in racehorses is generally further back in the pedigree. Remember, a race horse is judged on how fast it can run carrying weight. Success in creating hybrid vigour is going to be a factor. In cannabis, quality and vigour and yield are different issues.
N.
 
'Principles of Plant Breeding' by Robert W Allard
I'll see if I can get it at the library. The biggest drawback with books on plant breeding is they presume that you can just grow out 1000s of plants. Does it mention chrysanthemums? They often have batches of 40 or 50 siblings or less( it's all hand pollinated and the flowers are difficult to deal with).
N.
 
PS I have been thinking about doing potatoes. I love potatoes. Potatoes are an excellent food and will get you through hard times better than most cheap foods. I need land.
N.

and a lot of time.. but theres big money in it....
 
:eek: jesus christ they charge that much?

GreenintheThumb is it worth the money :rolleyes:

If you have access to a good public library (and a library card), you might
ask them and see if they can get a copy through interlibrary loan - that would at least allow you to look through it and see if it's worth spending the money on...
 
Here's a pretty straightforward way to do potatoes with less land:

Irish Eyes Garden Seeds "How to grow 100lbs potatoes in 4 square feet"

i have seen that done before but the wood squares could be removed completely from the bottom and the top wooden planks pushed down. then you just put the bottom back on the top and just keep topping the soil until the frost killed you potato's end of the year. unless your doing it in a polytunnel or greenhouse then you just keep going till you decide your done or your potato's get a problem like blight or something. there great for growing spuds.:)
 
you can buy it on kindle for the low price of $117.95

They have like a ten page preview of it here.

Amazon.com: Principles of Plant Breeding, 2nd Edition (9780471023098): Robert W. Allard: Books


looks interesting.

A bit convoluted and obtuse perhaps, but interesting

Hey Green in the Thumb, I was wondering if you know how many new varieties of plants this Allard is responsible for creating?

Did he create any new species of plant, as Luther Burbank did?

You can get the complete works of Luther Burbank, for pretty close to $117.95 and that would be hard copies.


It's no wonder all those academicians, bloated with self importance, despised him so much.

"Burbank's creations included:

Fruits

* 113 plums and prunes
* 35 fruiting cacti
* 16 blackberries
* 13 Raspberries
* 11 quinces
* 11 plumcots
* Ten cherries
* Ten strawberries
* Ten apples
* Eight peaches
* Six chestnuts
* Five nectarines
* Four grapes
* Four pears
* Three walnuts
* Two figs
* One almond

Grains, grasses, forage

* Nine types

Vegetables

* 26 types

Ornamentals

* 91 types

Burbank was criticized by scientists of his day because he did not keep the kind of careful records that are the norm in scientific research and because he was mainly interested in getting results rather than in basic research. Jules Janick, Ph.D., Professor of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture, Purdue University, writing in the World Book Encyclopedia, 2004 edition, says: "Burbank cannot be considered a scientist in the academic sense."

During his career, Burbank wrote, or co-wrote, several books on his methods and results, including his eight-volume How Plants Are Trained to Work for Man (1921), Harvest of the Years (with Wilbur Hall, 1927), Partner of Nature (1939), and the 12-volume Luther Burbank: His Methods and Discoveries and Their Practical Application. Burbank also published in 1893 a descriptive catalog of some of his best varieties, entitled called New Creations in Fruits and Flowers."


Source: Luther Burbank | Famous People | Famous People Details
 
Hi all;)

I do have a question about "Clones"

Like when I make a selection I do make clones of the "seed plants" that I keep on 24/24. So I place the plants under lamps to flo. In the same time I see the speed of "rooting" of the clones.

So when I have finish my selection is seed + one cut. I try to keep the mothers as long as I can to not make more than 7 cutings ton Mom generations.

My question is : Could I lost some genetics by making clone mothers ?

"Like the studies that says than some branches of old threes sometime have a different genetic than the base of the three"

All the best

Drk
 
Josh I don't like you one bit. Here's some of what Allard's peers thought about him. But you never know they might be bloated with self importance. :rolleyes:


IN MEMORIAM



Robert W. Allard

Professor of Applied Genetics

Davis

1919–2003



Robert “Bob” W. Allard died March 25, 2003, in Davis. He was born September 3, 1919, to Alma Roose Allard and Glenn Allard, in the San Fernando Valley, where he grew up.

When he was ten years old, he decided he wanted to be a plant breeder. To that end, he developed a hands-on love of growing plants and graduated from the College of Agriculture at UC Davis. He then earned his doctorate from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. After World War II, he started his academic career at UCD, where he served until his retirement.

He was one of those singular people who can be said to have founded a scientific discipline, in his case, the field of plant population genetics. He was a world figure in plant genetics, whose contributions ranged from the genetic dissection of complex traits to ecological genetics to crop breeding to mathematical and statistical theory in genetics.

Perhaps his most important work was embodied in a long series of articles on the genetics of predominantly self-fertilizing plants. This comprehensive series of articles used all the tools then available to science to investigate the impact of extreme inbreeding on the genetic architecture of plant populations. Allard not only focused on the genetics of plant populations, but was keenly aware of their ecological setting and led efforts to integrate genetics with ecology in the 1960s and 70s.

In addition to his contributions in basic research, Allard was a master of applied genetics. He was one of the leading plant breeders of his generation and he wrote the major textbook on plant breeding, which was widely adopted in the U.S. and abroad. He was at ease in the two worlds of basic and applied science and he contributed importantly to developing and then applying new knowledge for the improvement of agriculture.

Allard's contributions to his science spanned more than 50 years, beginning before World War II and continuing long after his retirement in 1986. He was a teacher and mentor of monumental proportions, having trained 56 doctorate students and more than 100 master’s students over his career. His students have gone on to influence the sciences of crop breeding, population genetics and molecular evolution and many have assumed leadership positions in industry, academics and government.

He also contributed greatly to his university by leading in the development of genetics at UCD and by chairing a department that was widely viewed as one of the world's leading genetics departments during his tenure. He also served as president of several scientific societies, including the Genetics Society of America, the American Genetic Association and the American Society of Naturalists.

Allard's contributions to his science and to his university earned many honors over the years. He was elected to the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Election to both of these national scientific honor societies is in recognition of his exceptional contributions to the field of plant genetics. He was a recipient of both the DeKalb-Pfizer Distinguished Career Award and the Crop Science Award by the Crop Science Society of America. He was honored as the Nelsson Ehle Lecturer of the Mendelian Society of Sweden and as the Wilhelmine Key lecturer of the American Genetic Association. He was also named Faculty Research Lecturer at UCD and was awarded an Honorary Doctorate by the University of Helsinki in Finland and the University of Leon in Spain.

It was at the University of Wisconsin where he met and married Ann Catherine Wilson, who was his wife of 59 years. Bob and Ann have five children who all grew up in Davis. The couple also has seven grandchildren. His family benefited greatly from the rich and intellectually stimulating friendship of his scientific associates and his worldwide travel, which included three sabbaticals, frequent international lecturing and visits to the National Academy of Sciences.

He is survived by his wife Ann Allard, of Davis; his brother Leland Allard, of Modesto; and his daughters Susan Allard, of Davis, Jane Allard Allen, of Petaluma, Gillian Allard, of Bainbridge Island, Wash., and Stacie Allard, of Flexweiler, Luxembourg. His grandchildren are Gabriel and Meryl Craig of Davis, Thomas and Jackson Allen of Petaluma, Emma Kirchner, of Bainbridge Island, Wash., and Ella and Lukas Tikka, of Luxembourg.

Allard spent his career in advancing the field of plant genetics producing new knowledge and mentoring a number of students who have achieved recognition for their major contributions to the field of molecular and population genetics. Professor Robert W. Allard represents the best in what is expected from a University faculty member and he will be missed by his colleagues and his family.

D. William Rains

Shu Geng

Jan Dvorak





DrK-

Clones are the same genetically as the mom you take them from. You don't need to worry about losing anything and you don't have to limit the number of clone to clone to clone generations. Many have maintained elites for decades with no problems.
 
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A bit convoluted and obtuse perhaps, but interesting

Hey Green in the Thumb, I was wondering if you know how many new varieties of plants this Allard is responsible for creating?

Did he create any new species of plant, as Luther Burbank did?

You can get the complete works of Luther Burbank, for pretty close to $117.95 and that would be hard copies.


It's no wonder all those academicians, bloated with self importance, despised him so much.

"Burbank's creations included:

Fruits

* 113 plums and prunes
* 35 fruiting cacti
* 16 blackberries
* 13 Raspberries
* 11 quinces
* 11 plumcots
* Ten cherries
* Ten strawberries
* Ten apples
* Eight peaches
* Six chestnuts
* Five nectarines
* Four grapes
* Four pears
* Three walnuts
* Two figs
* One almond

Grains, grasses, forage

* Nine types

Vegetables

* 26 types

Ornamentals

* 91 types

Burbank was criticized by scientists of his day because he did not keep the kind of careful records that are the norm in scientific research and because he was mainly interested in getting results rather than in basic research. Jules Janick, Ph.D., Professor of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture, Purdue University, writing in the World Book Encyclopedia, 2004 edition, says: "Burbank cannot be considered a scientist in the academic sense."

During his career, Burbank wrote, or co-wrote, several books on his methods and results, including his eight-volume How Plants Are Trained to Work for Man (1921), Harvest of the Years (with Wilbur Hall, 1927), Partner of Nature (1939), and the 12-volume Luther Burbank: His Methods and Discoveries and Their Practical Application. Burbank also published in 1893 a descriptive catalog of some of his best varieties, entitled called New Creations in Fruits and Flowers."


Source: Luther Burbank | Famous People | Famous People Details

if we are going to talk cannabis then the likes of Shull is above Burbank IMO. (thats not to detract from what Burbank did)..

though again looking at potatoes I do find it ironic that people are selfing them due to the inbreeding probs, and clones are prev again a bit like things applied with cannabis, so whats more applicable a book from a man looking at corn( like cannabis), incorporating heterosis (thanks to Shull) ie Allard or the works of Burbank?
 
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