Breeding techniques

[oscar the rotund]

Earlier it was noted by joshuahazen that the Great Luther Burbank wrote a book called,"Luther Burbank, his methods and discoveries and their practical application". Many thanks for that. Here's a link to it. I'm going to read it. First link the organization and links to the book in different formats.
Luther Burbank, his methods and discoveries and their practical application; : Burbank, Luther, 1849-1926 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
Second. Direct to book in various formats.
Index of /11/items/cu31924008976866/

This thread has been very helpful to me. It's beginning to become clear to me the appropriate breeding strategy I need to follow for my needs. Beginning that is.

 

[brock1]

sorry to sound so dramatic fellows. im just very sad in these days.
take care of you all.

Az aka batman too

don't go Az i really like reading your posts here like a lot of others here. i to have been a bit sad these last few day. i have had a lot of bad news lately and was thinking of leaving here my self because of family problems. i have decided that i would just not post as often as i normally do and get on here a little less till i get my self sorted. i have a mns shit and early skunk grow in but wont be doing a grow log for the first time since i came on here. its just a case of i need a little time to sort my head out. that's the only reason why i am not doing the grow report's. maybe you should do the same and just become less active rather then just go. i hope you stay your definitely someone who care about the future of my favorite plant. i will respect you decision ether way but you will be missed Az if you do go.

 

[Ouchie]

Earlier it was noted by joshuahazen that the Great Luther Burbank wrote a book called,"Luther Burbank, his methods and discoveries and their practical application". Many thanks for that. Here's a link to it. I'm going to read it. First link the organization and links to the book in different formats.
Luther Burbank, his methods and discoveries and their practical application; : Burbank, Luther, 1849-1926 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
Second. Direct to book in various formats.
Index of /11/items/cu31924008976866/

This thread has been very helpful to me. It's beginning to become clear to me the appropriate breeding strategy I need to follow for my needs. Beginning that is.

I believe this is his 7th volume in a series of books I'd love to find the rest, I'm reading this one now. Thanks for the link, I've been wanting to read more of his work.

 

[joshuahazen]

Thanks Oscar, great links. It has 12 volumes, and volume seven, on fixing traits, is very relevant.

I wish industry and Academia at large would have taken closer note of Luther Burbank and his work. He achieved more on his small farm single handedly for agriculture, than every multimillion dollar gene lab combined.
This is a very important quote from him which can be found in Volume V:

"Indeed it is my firm conviction that hybridizing between natural species is a phenomenon of almost universal occurrence.

I believe that no other equally plausible explanation has been given of the appearance of seeming spontaneous varieties or mutations that furnish the material for the operation of natural selection, and are thus the basis of organic evolution.

It is true that such a suggestion as this would have seemed heretical not very long ago; but vast numbers of experiments in hybridizing different species and even representives of different Generra, in my orchards and gardens have afforded a mass of evidence that no one can ignore."--Luther Burbank

Well unfortunately the Academic community at large has ignored and continues to ignore, the evidence of Luther Burbank's work, even as they individually consume the products of his vision at their dinner tables.

 

[oscar the rotund]

I didn't realize it had so many volumes. If you search for his name on the link above you get links to all the volumes.
I've been looking at all the works they have on him. Nevil will love these two quotes from the book
"Luther Burbank; how his discoveries are to be put into practical use (1911)"

1. ""I have heard of Burbank, just as I have heard of Edison, but what has he done
that is of practical and lasting value?" asked a man with whom I was discussing
Luther Burbank's work.



Out of the results of forty years of daily achievement, it is hard to pick a single
illustration that will answer the question: "What has he done?"

But take for example the common potato. Thirty-five years ago potatoes were
round, red-skinned and small.

The potatoes you have today are long, white-skinned and large.

You would have difficulty now in finding specimens of those little round, red-
skinned potatoes of olden days, for the Burbank potato has become practically
universal, it no longer pays to raise the other kind.

Luther Burbank did three things to the potato :

He increased its size.

He increased the number that grow in a hill.

And, third, he improved the quality and flavor.

The United States Department of Agriculture at Washington, in one of its bulletins, has said that the Burbank potato is adding seventeen million dollars a year to
the agricultural output of the country.

On this basis, and remembering that Burbank products are not limited to America,
but are, in fact, better known abroad than at home, it is easy to compute that the
Burbank potato in the thirty-five years since its discovery, has added to farm incomes
a grand total in the neighborhood of six hundred million dollars.

In other words, Luther Burbank, with this one single plant improvement, has
given the farmers of the world an added income equal to the whole estimated earnings of the Standard Oil Company since its inception. \
"

2. "From the results of the twenty thousand he selects perhaps five or six and
from five or six, in ten years or twenty years, he brings forth another Burbank product.

And the public, not knowing the process or the patience or the wonderful imagination of the man, says "wonderful" "a wizard."

If that public could see Luther Burbank burning up ten thousand discarded
plants, if it could see his ten thousand-dollar wood-pile that represented the failures
necessary to produce success, it would understand more of his method."

This I believe, "a moment of instant eureka", is exactly what Nevil is talking about.

 

[Nevil]

It is true that such a suggestion as this would have seemed heretical not very long ago; but vast numbers of experiments in hybridizing different species and even representives of different Generra, in my orchards and gardens have afforded a mass of evidence that no one can ignore."--Luther Burbank

Well unfortunately the Academic community at large has ignored and continues to ignore, the evidence of Luther Burbank's work, even as they individually consume the products of his vision at their dinner tables.

How applicable is this to cannabis.
My detractors criticise my methods while they grow and individually smoke the products of my vision.
N.

 

[Unclepeter]

I didn't realize it had so many volumes. If you search for his name on the link above you get links to all the volumes.
I've been looking at all the works they have on him. Nevil will love these two quotes from the book
"Luther Burbank; how his discoveries are to be put into practical use (1911)"

1. ""I have heard of Burbank, just as I have heard of Edison, but what has he done
that is of practical and lasting value?" asked a man with whom I was discussing
Luther Burbank's work.



Out of the results of forty years of daily achievement, it is hard to pick a single
illustration that will answer the question: "What has he done?"

But take for example the common potato. Thirty-five years ago potatoes were
round, red-skinned and small.

The potatoes you have today are long, white-skinned and large.

You would have difficulty now in finding specimens of those little round, red-
skinned potatoes of olden days, for the Burbank potato has become practically
universal, it no longer pays to raise the other kind.

Luther Burbank did three things to the potato :

He increased its size.

He increased the number that grow in a hill.

And, third, he improved the quality and flavor.

The United States Department of Agriculture at Washington, in one of its buUe- \\=fe~|[^
tins, has said that the Burbank potato is adding seventeen million dollars a year to
the agricultural output of the country.

On this basis, and remembering that Burbank products are not limited to America,
but are, in fact, better known abroad than at home, it is easy to compute that the
Burbank potato in the thirty-five years since its discovery, has added to farm incomes
a grand total in the neighborhood of six hundred million dollars.

In other words, Luther Burbank, with this one single plant improvement, has
given the farmers of the world an added income equal to the whole estimated earnings of the Standard Oil Company since its inception. \
"

2. "From the results of the twenty thousand he selects perhaps five or six and
from five or six, in ten years or twenty years, he brings forth another Burbank product.

And the public, not knowing the process or the patience or the wonderful imagination of the man, says "wonderful" "a wizard."

If that public could see Luther Burbank burning up ten thousand discarded
plants, if it could see his ten thousand-dollar wood-pile that represented the failures
necessary to produce success, it would understand more of his method."

This I believe, "a moment of instant eureka", is exactly what Nevil is talking about.

Potatoes are tetraploids

SCRI | Mapping QTLs in tetraploid potato | Scottish Crop Research Institute

and spuds are big business due to the fact there are no pure lines

The cultivated potato is tetraploid, non-inbred, and vegetatively propagated by tubers. Polyploidy and inbreeding depression prevent the generation of pure lines. When the ploidy level is reduced from 4n to 2n (Hermsen and Verdenius, 1973; Powell and Uhrig, 1987), the diploid potatoes become self incompatible. Potato genotypes at all ploidy levels, particularly all advanced breeding materials, are therefore usually heterozygous (Gebhardt, 2004). A feature common between potato and humans is that both species are out-crossing and consequently, heterozygous parents generate segregating F1 progeny. In both species, phenotypic and genotypic variation is abundant and natural. The concepts and approaches developed in human genetics based on the Human Genome Project for improving medical diagnosis and treatment serve therefore as model for developing innovative breeding strategies for the potato crop.

https://www.crops.org/publications/cs/articles/47/Supplement_3/S-106

 

[Nevil]

If that public could see Luther Burbank burning up ten thousand discarded
plants, if it could see his ten thousand-dollar wood-pile that represented the failures
necessary to produce success, it would understand more of his method."

Few plants that I grew got the chance to reproduce, most became hash and compost. A bottleneck some would say, maybe they said the same to Burbank, but I worked hard for that bottleneck. I see the same phenos that I selected popping up in the photos of plants in your rooms. To me that's success and when I buy some stash from an unknown kid in a strange city and I recognise it, I think to myself, they can say what they want...
N.
PS I have been thinking about doing potatoes. I love potatoes. Potatoes are an excellent food and will get you through hard times better than most cheap foods. I need land.
N.

 

[Unclepeter]

Few plants that I grew got the chance to reproduce, most became hash and compost. A bottleneck some would say, maybe they said the same to Burbank, but I worked hard for that bottleneck. I see the same phenos that I selected popping up in the photos of plants in your rooms. To me that's success and when I buy some stash from an unkown kid in a strange city and I recognise it I think to myself, they can say what they want...
N.

Personally I have no problem with a line being bottlenecked to a degree.. though i'm not a fan of 1:1 matings thats my personnal pref I wouldn't tell you or others you were wrong.. I'm a fan of population genetics.. I remember shanti saying he popped 50 odd of some remaining stock of yours (sorry can't recall what it was, likely a Haze/skunk or haze/nl type?) anyway my pers plan would of been to back up that stock as best I could for the future... I'm not into point scoring or going ethical to say i'm better than you etc, I don't know you so shouldn't judge...

 

[North]

everybody will surely not care but im leaving, i feel im not useful here and that often nobody care about my opinions or the help i try to give.

Azra'eil- Dont leave your a good contributor of info and ideas. one of the people whose posts i look for in these topics. always great info.

Hope your still here.

 

[North]

I need land.
N.

You and I both.

any plans on revisiting the Early Pearl lines Nev?

 

[british_hempire]

Once I get my hands on the beans I was thinking about crossing a Nordle male with a selected ASH female Nev , do you think this would be a decent cross mate ? Or should I use the ASH as the male and introduce the haze genes through the male ? Does it matter or is the cross more about the selection chosen? A MasterKush-Skunk X Nordle also appeals to me . Cheers Mate!

I like the idea of Nordle x ASH. Personally, I'd look for the most Haze dom ASH male to cross to the best Nordle female. WIth careful selection you could have a fair portion of ther Haze high with the structure and earliness of the Afghan x Skunk.

 

[Chana Masala]

I like the idea of Nordle x ASH. Personally, I'd look for the most Haze dom ASH male to cross to the best Nordle female. WIth careful selection you could have a fair portion of ther Haze high with the structure and earliness of the Afghan x Skunk.

Big Ups BH, nice to be passionate about the plant again eh?

I found the same passion about 6 months ago too... I probably think Nevi's energy helped spark the new direction.

Happy to see you found yours and having great ideas to work towards... who knows... maybe you will open up shop one day again!

On your thought above, I beleive SB did something similar with Critical Haze (Critical Mass x Afghan Haze) still not sure which haze was used though.

Here is Billy's synopsis on it:

CM hybrids are :
Critical Skunk (CM x AS)
Critical Haze (CM x AH)
Pink Floyd (CM x Haze AC)
Critical Mass x Haze C

and hopefully one-day Critical Widow.

peace
BL

Respect,

CM

 

[ohiogrower]

I Have A Question For You Nevil, See If You Can Spot The Difference You Racist Prick.

One Is A Spoon Burner And The Other Is A Spoon Bender

 

[british_hempire]

Ban this ohiogrower idiot right away, quite clear he's come here to insult Nevil, probably someone who has been banned and has come back.

 

[joshuahazen]

How applicable is this to cannabis.
My detractors criticise my methods while they grow and individually smoke the products of my vision.
N.

Just as there can only be one King of Cannabis, There is only one Luther Burbank of Dope. He is one in the same, and we all know who he is.

 

[Dogstar]

Ban this ohiogrower idiot right away, quite clear he's come here to insult Nevil, probably someone who has been banned and has come back.

Did you notice the post number?

 

[Nevil]

Did you notice the post number?

I did. It's JF.
N.

 

[british_hempire]

Spooky/lucky that he hit the devil's number with that post.

Don't respond to the little turd Nev and please feel free to delete that post he made as I find it distasteful and I'm sure others do too and won't miss it one bit if you bin it.

Perhaps we should adopt a rule of thumb - if the first posts a new member makes are clearly made to cause trouble or attack someone then that should be taken as clear indication that they are a fuckwit and justification for instant banning and their posts deleted for the good of the community and to keep the place clean, like the local council removing the waste so the community stays clean and healthy.

 

[Chana Masala]

I post a positive thought to BH and Nev and you get a negative response from a two post newbie, JF or who ever, right after...

I thought new members are supposed to post an introduction thread to validate the activation of membership?

Is admini the person that activates new memberships?

Peace,

CM