The origins of Haze

  • Thread starter Thread starter JessE
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deran said:
i have some problems with timelines ... or how to make it even more complicated :D

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/96628-post2.html

a short reroute ^^

its said the haze bros quit growing haze bc of skunk, so there last crop wasnt haze ...
its also said that they started with the columbian - mexican lines ...

where and when is their first afghani?
first skunk appeard mid 70s ...
for my "understanding" too early for the skunk to appear, not storywise, breedingwise ... 10 outdoor runs prior .. we are in mid 60s ...

i wasnt there, just something bugs me, to say it loud i really dont know, but i got a feeling, that in mid 60s .. those "growers" werent that "crazy" like we r today, doing 6 crosses within a year for breeding purpose only ... i just cant imagine that, there was no buizz besides the bud buizz imho, and a few lonley seed-in-envelope-packers ;)

also ... looking at the skunk ... all todays explanations, are too well said, to make something coicindently looking like on purpose, as far as i understand, skunk was a lucky shot, like some of the hazes were ... some good recombination, i read over its "breeding" ... lol ... nice way to excuse open field pollination lol ... but thats another story ... ;)

them r too conected: haze n skunk ... their roots, their story .. sisters maybe ?

we need to clarify that ghani, to get another puzzle in the haze story
Click to expand...

Sam's timeline is this:

71 Returned from his travels
71 Haze Bros began with Mexican/Colombian
72-73 Thai and South Indian added to 'Original Haze'
76 Skunk #1 stabilised to point it was ready for release, Sacred Seeds started

So Sam's 'Original Haze' as created by the fictional or not 'Haze Bros' didn't exist before early 74.

Sam said the Haze bros quit growing Haze by the late 70s and grew Skunk #1 instead, he also said they had a falling out in the early 80s, one became born again and one went to Mexico.

Then there is that early 80s (82 I think) HT article with the pic of 'Haze Bros Kush'.

Skunk, according to Sam was originally a cross of an Acapulco Gold female to and f2 Afghan/Colombian male, then he worked it a lot of gens.

It probably is Acapulco x Afghan/Colombian, you can see a lot of Acapulco in it, particularly in the Seedsman version where there are phenos that go 13 weeks and are a dead ringer for a Acapulco/Oaxacan Gold type. Several people I know have grown an earlier less worked version and said there were roughly 40% Acapulco phenos, 40% Colombian phenos and 20% indica looking Afghan phenos. UK Cheese is probably a later more worked Skunk #1 pheno that is unusual because it still has the terpenodi profile from the Afghan, giving it a lot of stink.

But did Sam breed Skunk originally? There are people who tell a different tale and say Sacred Seeds was a loose Collective in the Bay Area communes and a group of 6 key breeder/growers developed Skunk and that Sam was only a peripheral member of that group and just took the Skunk line and worked it in his own direction which was to try to make it was sweet as possible and get rid of the nasty stinky side.

Who knows, it's said 2 of the original 6 are dead and the other 4 are MIA. A lot of time has passed since the early 70s and if the people who could really prove the truth wasn't Sam's version would have probably stood up before now but haven't because they either walked away from the scene a long time ago, got sent to prison for a long time or have other good reason not to, otherwise, Sam wouldn't have been able to take all the credit. Or maybe Sam is telling the truth?
 
british_hempire said:
Sam's timeline is this:

71 Returned from his travels
71 Haze Bros began with Mexican/Colombian
72-73 Thai and South Indian added to 'Original Haze'
76 Skunk #1 stabilised to point it was ready for release, Sacred Seeds started
Click to expand...

Could you link where Sam stated the Haze bros began working in 71 and that Thai and South Indian were added to OHz in 72-73.

Peace.

K.
 
The Lowland Colombian Reds are said to be acclimated Afghans and judging by the descriptions of the narcotic effects of Colombian and Panamanian Reds then I expect those stories had some substance.

Also, I remember reading somewhere once about Afghan farmers and their hash methods being imported to Colombia in the 40s.

And as I mentioned earlier, there was a Times article in the late 70s that noted that Thai seeds had been imported to Colombia and grown at high altitude to produce very high grade pot called 'Sky Blue Blonde'.

Maybe someone who reads Spanish well can look into the history of marijuana in Colombia, maybe there are some books and papers on the subject?
 
Just read a book about Escobar, he was a huge smoker.

Considering he went to such lengths to ensure his own comfort as equipping 30 hideouts around Medellin with a particular type of toilet that had to be imported and the same huge screen TV and satellite dish combo so he could watch all the football games all in preparation for going on the run and he buried tens if not hundreds of million in CASH around the grounds of La Catedral prison (which was built by Escobar and was more a luxury villa) then it wouldn't surprise me if he had some clever scientist types growing his personal stash for him. Escobar had more money than he knew what to do with and he smoked weed all day every day from when he was a kid.

There were others apart from Escobar, Escobar was just the Medellin part of Colombia, Cali was a big rival and there were other smaller families too. Then there's the FARC and all the other guerilla/outlaw bands, Colombia is a huge and rugged country perfect for banditos to hide out in and all those groups engage in criminal enterprises to raise money. Their involvement in the cocaine trade is very well documented but all the stuff I've seen and read talks about the Colombian cocaine trade only starting in any large scale way in the mid 70s and only really getting going in the late 70s with the rise of Pablo. On interesting film factoid shows you how little cocaine from Colombia or anywhere else was available in the 1960s - for the opening scene of Easy Rider where they meet Phil Spector in his Rolls-Royce to score the cocaine, they weren't able to obtain any real cocaine. If Spector, Hopper and Fonda in Hollywood in 1969 weren't able to get any cocaine then there can't have been much about at that time. It was the 70s before the songs of the time were mentioning cocaine, think of Humble Pie's '30 days in the Hole' it mentions Durban Poison, Red Lebanese, Chicago Green, Black Nepalese but also a 'silver coke spoon' and Clapton even released a single called 'Cocaine'.

So what were the Colombian outlaws and banditos doing for funds from the 40s to the 70s? 'La Violencia' and 'El Bogotazo' happened in the mid 40s so Colombia was a troubled and violent country riddled with outlaws and criminals from then onwards. Makes me wonder if the tales of bring in Afghan and Lebanese farmers and methods in the 40s isn't linked to the fall of the rule or law and order in Colombian society and the rise of criminal enterprise? Like I say, some study of Colombian history would be valuable. I wouldn't be surprised if the 40s, 50, 60 and 70s saw a good deal of weed production in Colombia but I also expect it peaked in the early 70s then fell off sharply when the cocaine market exploded.

Tom Forcade and others talk about the finest Colombian drying up between 74 and 76 and being unknown by 77 with any lumbo late in the decade being schwag compared to what was common a few years earlier, Wacky Weed, Reds, Golds, Blondes were all widely seen and smoked in the early 70s, 74 seems to have been a peak year, read a few comments that the Panama Red was particularly good that year.

I think you can directly link that fall in the supply of Colombian with the rise of the imports of Colombian cocaine. People like Griselda Blanco and Pablo Escobar were behind that but what really caused the change was probably two-fold:

1. The War On Drugs was declared in the early 70s and it became harder and harder and riskier and more dangerous to smuggle drugs into the US which meant that the fairly harmless people (like Howard Marks, Tom Forcade etc) who were smuggling the weed were replaced by more violent and dangerous serious criminals who were prepared to take on the US authorities and use guns, violence and terror to achieve their ends. These people obvously don't care about the end user and what the substance does to them so they had no scruples about selling a life destroying white powder. These guys weren't going to bother smuggling cannabis which in contrast to cocaine is bulky and needs to be well treated to keep it's quality. Cocaine by volume and weight is worth a lot more and you don't reduce it's quality if you wrap it in plastic, compress it and stick it in the bilges of a ship.

2. The Vietnam War and other factors had caused a change in US society. The boom years of the 60s were over, Altamont and the Hells Angels slit the throat of the love generation's dreams, music had gone from the upbeat, happy and loving vibe of the mamas and papas, beatles, beach boys etc to the nihilistic, cynical and angry - think of the Ramones, Television, Patti Smith, Velvet Underground, Iggy Pop etc etc. Almost everyone in the nation watch the moon landing in 1969, by 1974 the television audience for the last Apollo mission was so small it played a large factor in the decision to cancel the Apollo Program. All these social changes meant cocaine had more appeal than cannabis to a lot of people. In the UK the late 70s punk explosion was accompanied by a amphetamine epidemic, that was because cocaine wasn't on the scene here yet but in the US it was starting to arrive, the early American punks like the Ramones, Iggy Pop and The New York Dolls were all abusing speed in their early careers, cocaine started to appear in the mid 70s, became fairly widely available in the late 70s then bang, was everywhere in the early 80s thanks to Pablo and others.

There has been an absolute shit-ton of books, films and documentaries about the rise of the Colombian cocaine trade but I am aware of very very little information let along a single book about the rise and fall of the Colombian cannabis trade that preceded it.
 
High Times went through this wierd period at the end of the 70s and first few years of the 80s when it seemed a bit obsessed with cocaine, the rag was full of pics and articles about the stuff and the adverts for various cocaine related items were many.

Early years of HT is all about Colombians, Mexicans, Hawaiians, exotic weeds and hashes, no mention of cocaine, that was when it was good, it went to shit though and that was when the cocaine fetish started. Having heard all the tales of how the HT people view the Cannabis Cup as an excuse to spend a week in Amsterdam snorting blow then it makes you wonder why the mag was full of stuff about cocaine, probably because the office often had a snowstorm in it. In Tom Forcade's day I'm sure it smelt of weed as it should have.
 

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coop said:
i wonder what strains today we could trace back to some of those known varieties listed above.
Click to expand...

I'd say 90% if not more of that listed is gone.

Here's a fine exercise for us, let's make a list of all the sativas on the market today that aren't based on either NL5Haze or G13Haze of one of Nev's other Hazes.

It's a short list. The genepool is very bottlenecked indeed.

I'll start it rolling off the top of my head:

Destroyer - Cannabiogen
Panama - Ace
Tikal - Ace
Congo - Ace
La Nina - Mr Nice
Indian Haze/Haze Mist - Seedsman/TFD
Indian Skunk/Kerala Krush - Seedsman/TFD
Thaitanic - TFD
Haze - Seedsman/TFD
Haze Skunk/Fuma De Dios - Seedsman/TFD
Blueberry/Flo etc - DJ Short

Apart from that what else is there? All the GHS stuff is ripoffs of Nev and Shanti, all the more recent stuff from DNA, Soma and others is hacks of G13Haze or SSH etc etc.

The Amnesia cutting so popular in Holland these days is an SSH, Amnesia Haze from Soma is probably that Amnesia/SSH crossed to the G13Haze male, Greenhouse enter a batch of SSH in the cup every year under a different name, their SLH seeds are SSH S1s, Barney's sell a load of G13Haze crosses under different names, they entered the C5 NL5Haze cutting under a fake name in the cup and won.

And all those Hazes descend from just two plants of unknown lineage.

We've lost so much, this is why I'm so interested in the heirloom sats left in Australia, anything as good as Nev's two Haze males is very significant and should be identified, bred with and preserved, if we wait much longer we will have waited too long and there will be bugger all left because we know nearly all the seed cos around today aren't starting any seed to look for new things they are just spraying the same old clones to make new 'feminised hybrids'.
 
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Coop

great link most appreciated


But what original haze plant was that ???

Supposedly at the cannabis castle in 88 ,NEVIL could only explain what strain exactly but as we know there was only one pure haze made by Nevil BC,aside from hzc2 ,if that was the labeling .



1luvbigherb
 
hempy said:
Since when did i think become factual guys ?.

By the way has bigskirt admitted yet he ether harvested sexing NH plants as mature plants or admitted he was telling porky pies yet ?.
Click to expand...

He's just taken to ignoring anyone who challenges him now sadly.

I'm with you, he's full of it unless he proves otherwise and proov is long overdue.
 
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