Hello and One Love

PennyP said:
I grew the White Russian last year from reg.
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Have you tried Shantis Medicine Man? Shanti created it by crossing his Black Widow and an Afghani. It's an Indica dom White cross from the man himself, who bred the White strains.
If you haven't grown it yet, I'd reccomend giving it a try. I absolutely loved the straw I grew. The plants were fairly uniform in flavor, growth, and effect. I honestly enjoyed every single plant I grew, though a few especially stood out ❄️ wise 😉.
 
PennyP said:
Is it equal to White Rhino? I used to grow that strain and It was outstanding?

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Greetings Penny & welcome aboard. It depends on which version of WR you're referring to, as I suspect there may be more than one out there; but as far as I know, the original WR is the same plant, as MNS Med Man. Nice to see you have a very active "green thumb!" I'm looking forward to your MNS grow reports. Cheers! 😉👍🏻
 
PennyP said:
Is it equal to White Rhino? I used to grow that strain and It was outstanding?
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Like @Freedom_Fighter said, Shantis Medicine Man is the original White Rhino renamed. How similar it is to the version you tried would vary. I've read that Shantis Medicine Man stretches more than some peoples White Rhino, but I didn't find the stretch to be overwhelming.

I would reccomend that you try it and let us know how they compare. I've only grown MM, so I can't comment on others WR. I know my Grandmother rather enjoyed the Medicine Man. It had her in a serene daze 😁 and got her eating.
 
"this plant can be grown for a week to 10 days before being flowered."...i would give IT time until the plant is about 20 to 25 cm in height before fliipping to 12/12....am I wrong?
 
PennyP said:
"this plant can be grown for a week to 10 days before being flowered."...i would give IT time until the plant is about 20 to 25 cm in height before fliipping to 12/12....am I wrong?
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Hi, remind us, please, about your grow light? I don't recall the details, off-hand. What type is it and is it equipped with a dimmer switch? And how tall is the pot, out of curiosity?

I haven't grown G13 Widow but the description describes it as having 2 expressions: sativa & indica. I think that means one will stretch more than the other, but if you end up with both types in this grow, I think you'll be fine if you flip the sativa at 25-30 cm. That should keep it under under a metre, depending on the pot. The less space the roots have, the more the vertical stretch; which is why I enquired about the pot.

When the website says 7 to 10 days to flip, that may be counting from the first fully formed set of true leaves; and it's assuming normal growth conditions. It's a "relative" guide-line, depending on a variety of differing factors. It says "normal" grow set-up, but I'm not entirely clear what that means.

The indica dom will stretch less, so you can veg it longer, if you have secondary light to veg under. So, let's say you flip the sativa at 25 cm and the indica dom at 30 cm. I imagine you'll be perfectly fine in terms of height restrictions. The light dimmer is a nice feature to have, just in case you run into a height problem.
 
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Freedom_Fighter said:
Hi, remind us, please, about your grow light? I don't recall the details, off-hand. What type is it and is it equipped with a dimmer switch? And which of the 2 cultivar choices did you decide to run?
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Yeah your right....my way to ask was Not really exact.

My Setup is an dimmable 265w LED Sanlight EVO 4 120 in a Tent 60x120x180cm . With intakte and outtake Ventilator plus two rotating Ventis

I use to grow them and top em after about 3 to 4 weeks before i Flip to 12/12. Normally there were then about 25 to 30 cm. Then keep the Top Cutting to Clone the plant...but also to keep it bushy and not so stretchy in height..

I "m thinking in Weeks when i Grow.

Planting the Seeds..after one week there will be the stable Sprout...a week Fürther i have cool plant starting to Take Off ...and then another 1 or 3 Weeks before I top the Main stem an bring em.into flower.. useully i wait three days after Topping and then Flip to 12/12
One Love

I',ts about the G13 Widow from reg. Seeds
 
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PennyP said:
dimmable 265w LED Sanlight EVO 4 120 in a Tent 60x120x180cm . With intakte and outtake Ventilator plus two rotating Ventis.
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I went to the Sanlight website to look for the PPFD map, to see what measurements were provided. Most light manufacturers provide measurements at 3 different canopy heights, often at 30 cm, 45 cm and 60 cm; to help the grower know how best to optimize it. Maybe it's there but I just didn't see it.

What I saw was a 3D PPFD Plot which I've never seen any company do before. EVO is the first to do that, which I've seen, but maybe that'll become the new standard. Nor did I see a map/ plot for a 60×120cm footprint, but maybe I missed it. It's a good idea to learn how to make your own PPFD measurements. There are cell phone apps which can do it, fairly accurately, but a proper meter for it is the best approach, imo. Have you looked into doing your own measurements?

PennyP said:
Normally there were then about 25 to 30 cm. Then keep the Top Cutting to Clone the plant...but also to keep it bushy and not so stretchy in height..

Planting the Seeds..after one week there will be the stable Sprout...a week Fürther i have cool plant starting to Take Off ...and then another 1 or 3 Weeks before I top the Main stem
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I recently learned that top cuts are not a good idea, which I didn't know when I took my last set of cuts. A new study has shown that genetic drift in clones actually occurs and top cuts are the most susceptible to it. You can still top plants but take your cuts from middle or bottom of the plant, if you're planning to keep a clone long term. Here's a video that explains it fairly well. I suspect we'll be hearing more about this in the near future, as it becomes more widely known:

The #1 Mistake When Taking Plant Clones w/ Chad Westport
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
It's a good idea to learn how to make your own PPFD measurements. There are cell phone apps which can do it, fairly accurately, but a proper meter for it is the best approach, imo. Have you looked into doing your own measurements?
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Here's the light sensor I have. It's a good one but other newer brands have since hit the market and which are comparable in price, if not a little less:

SpotOn Quantum PAR Light Meter Innoquest : A MIGRO Product Review
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
Most light manufacturers provide measurements at 3 different canopy heights, often at 30 cm, 45 cm and 60 cm; to help the grower know how best to optimize it. Maybe it's there but I just didn't see it.
... Nor did I see a map/ plot for a 60×120cm footprint, but maybe I missed it.
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Correction: I did see a PAR/PPFD Map for 120×120cm, so here's half of that:

Screenshot_20251211_035904_Photos.jpg

Those measurements look like they were taken with the fixture tilted at an 11° angle, which you aren't doing in a 120×60 tent, with one light. So, this map is, in effect, no good for a single light standard no-tilt set-up.

Does the user instruction manual, that came with your fixture, tell you what its optimal hang height is, above the canopy, for the bloom cycle? For a single light standard no-tilt set-up? It's important to know that, imho.

So, the above map shows 72 × 10 cm squares. If you make your own grid map, it's unnecessary to measure so many squares. Measure 32 squares, instead, 15×15 cm; 3 sets of measurements, at 60, 45 and 30 cm heights/ distances, if this data isn't provided by the manufacturer.
 
Greetings Bredda, and thank you so much for your effort and the videos...

I wasn't aware of the clones/cutting/genetic drift stuff either...

I received all the information for my Sanlight from their really good and quick support team; I'll find it later in my Mail and post it here.

They also sent me a PPFD map for 60x120 cm and approximate dimmer settings for the different growth phases.
Basically, the LED should always be 30 cm away from the plant tips.

One Love
 
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This is a part of the answer I got from the Sanlight Support Team:


The optimal distance between the light and the plant is 30 cm. This allows you to achieve an average PPFD of 880 µmol/s/m².
This PPFD value scales linearly with the dimming level. That means:


  • At 100% you have 880 µmol/s/m²
  • 80% = 80% of 880, so 704 µmol/s/m²
  • 60% = 60% of 880, so 528 µmol/s/m²
  • and so on.

This distance applies to every growth stage of your plants, because it provides the most homogeneous light distribution. The light intensity is then controlled via the dimmer.

Regarding the dimmer settings:
Unfortunately, we do not have exact 1:1 guidelines for these settings, because every grow is individual and different genetics have different needs. There are many opinions on how these settings should be adjusted, so it is best to rely on the breeder’s recommendations.

In general, the guidelines are approximately:
  • 100–300 µmol/s/m² (PPFD) for seedlings
  • 250–600 µmol/s/m² in the vegetative phase
  • 600–1100 µmol/s/m² in the generative (flowering) phase
 
PennyP said:
Greetings Bredda, and thank you so much for your effort and the videos...
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Np, sista, it's good for LED growers to keep track of what's happenin' in that space, and how to use it to their benefit, to advance their craft.

Apogee has a great new light sensor that I hope to get, eventually, which measures light outside the 400-700 nm range. Very pricey but maybe the price may drop enough some day, it make it easier on the purse.

PennyP said:
I wasn't aware of the clones/cutting/genetic drift stuff either...
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Top cuts are still a go, I imagine, if your intentions for a particular mother plant are short term, like a few years before permanently retiring her; but if it's a rare gem and worth keeping for decades, then it makes more sense to cut from the middle or lower level, just to be safe. Not as convenient as cutting tops, I admit.

PennyP said:
I received all the information for my Sanlight from their really good and quick support team; I'll find it later in my Mail and post it here.
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Excellent. It's great to hear that about Sanlight. It looks impressive; and great to hear 30cm is what they recommend, for the bloom canopy height. A good sign of efficiency. Their data shows that the EVO has great canopy penetration. That explains why your plants look so good, sista!!

PennyP said:
They also sent me a PPFD map for 60x120 cm and approximate dimmer settings for the different growth phases.
Basically, the LED should always be 30 cm away from the plant
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Glad they did that. It makes the user experience with their gear go a lot smoother; and it makes sense to run it like that not just to minimize the heat from the driver, but also to manage energy cost more efficiently.

Still, it's good to be able to do your own measurements some day, to independently verify the manufacturer specs. The light spread on the PPFD map you posted looks excellent, overall. They did a great job but it's a good skill to have to be able to "trust but verify" their claims. Food for thought. ✌🏻😉 FF
 
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