Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[Morphote]

Sam won with his Skunk in 1988, but it was close. He entered again in '89, but that was the year I won everything right across the board. I think that they mistakenly gave one of the prises to someone else, but I didn't protest. I had won enough. Sam never entered again. You'd be inclined to think that he's holding a grudge.
N.

 

[paja]

what about if we have a clone? that make good offspring?
diversity?
is it a seedline you need

how do the haze move? and how do the key looks like?

paja

 

[La Buena Hierba]

Nevil can you explane how you whant too make the Grail will it be just Neville's Haze x (Grail mother?) ore more a line cross breeding
like example

.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..Neville's Haze
.................................................. ..
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X
..........................The Grail x
..........................
.................................................. ...........................................
.................................................. ..........................
.................................................. .........................
.................................................. ..
.................................................. ..(thai/Grail mother?)
.................................................. ...........................................
.................................................. ..........................
.................................................. ...........................
.................................................. ...........................................
.................................................. ..........................................
.
Neville's The Grail X
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ...Neville's Haze
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ...........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X
.......................Neville's Haze mango X
...........................
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ...........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..Mango Haze
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ...........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X

 

[kashrocks]

Let me tell you what Sam told me about the origin of SK1.

Some boys were growing some Afghani, Mexican and I'm not sure whether he said Thai or Columbian or both, in a remote area. He came back after some years and there it was, a fully stabilised hybrid. It just developed all by itself.

Honest to God, it's what he told me!
N.

Well with the time it seems Sam has improved somewhat his story.
Here is what he told us:

I did not plan to make specificly skunk a consistant F1 hybrid. I crossed the parents and had a f1 hybrid like maybe 30 other Sativa /Indica F1 hybrids I had made. When I individualy selfed all 30 of the populations and made F2 seeds, most of the f1s just segergated like crazy. What I named Skunk did not segergate in the F2's it was basicly consistant so I used it as a new consistant variety. And tossed most of the other hybrids. I did not make a perticular cross become consistant I used the F1 that was naturaly that way, why fight nature and make work? Just use large plant populations and many varieties and it is much easier then tring to force your will on two chosen varieties that you want specific traits from each of in a new hybrid that will be consistant.

And as for Skunk it was pretty stable as an F1, although selfing it a few years did help a bit with consistancy. But Skunk #1 was not forced to be stabilized, I just made 30 different Sativa X Indica F1 hybrids, selfed each and grew out a bunch of each of the 30 populations of selfed F1's and made 30 populations of F2's that when I grew them out showed that most had segregated into 25% like the Moms and 25% like the Dads and 50% like the F1, Skunk #1 did not segregate, or very little, so I kept it and tossed the others. I could of spent many years trying to stabilize hybrids that would never of stabilized, but why waste my time and fight nature? I wanted a hybrid that could be maintained by seed, Open Pollinated IBL. But nowadays growers prefer F1 clones as a way to maintain because of the increased vigor etc. When Skunk #1 was created very few growers knew about or used clones.

Peace.

K.

 

[L33t]

Nice input Kashrocks

here is some more info on SK1 from Sam:

Bluebeard,
"That is why lines like northern lights, skunk 1, and haze have declined so rapidly over the years. Heterosis did play a factor, but poor male selection was the ultimate downfall."

Real Skunk #1 is maintained by clones and has not changed in 20 years, the male clones were first selected from 10,000 males, and the first selects progeny tested before keepers were selected, good luck trying to smoke them all to test potency. Before that Skunk #1 was grown from seed each year and lots of males were grown each year, from just the best females from the years before, I think Skunk # 1 got better, but what do I know.....

from:http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1533436&postcount=187

 

[osoloco69]

" The Oaxacan, in my memory, was much more complex. It was fruity, but had tang, with a full bodied sweetness, more fruit salad than just fruit.. The smell had the promise of leading to something delicious and it did. It was strong, yet it had balance. If the Nepalese was playing high C, the Oaxacan was playing a chord with resonance. It was a comfortable feeling, high yet grounded, profound and content. I am reminded more of a beach party, a celebration of life, (Shakira shaking her arse comes to mind). "

Sounds like my girl. although I would say its a bit more like JLO shaking that booty

Taken from the Sierra Madre de Oaxaca in the remote region of the Rincon de Ixtlan from a selection of around 500 plants in 1986.
This plant has become one of my main breeding studs.
Maybe this is the stud or female you are looking for Nevil.

The whole range from Huautla de Jimenez down to Cuidad Oaxaca produces the lima limon(what you have). Once you get up to Huautla the fruity becomes more pronounced. Further south gets spicier. The Veracruz genes start to become more present about San Pedro north to Huautla. Once you get past Miahuatlan south it gets quite more tropical like the Guatemalan strains.

 

[Nevil]

Sounds like you've been there Osoloco. I'd be inclined to take somebodies word if he knew what he was talking about.
N.

 

[kashrocks]

HTCC 89

 

[joaquin386]

Only Super Sativa Seed Bank Entries, dont wonder why you won Nevil

 

[kashrocks]

I know it is difficult to read but it seems i can't do better overhere.
In 1989, there was 4 seed co. which entered the cup: Sensi Seed, The Seed Bank, Cuktivator's Choice (the greenhouse Sk#1 I presume) and the Super Sativa Seed Club.

Peace.

K.

 

[Nevil]

It wasn't only SSSC entries, the Sensi Seed Bank also entered with their range. This was prior to their aquisition of TSB stock. The only other competition around in those days was Sam and his group and he stopped entering.
N.

 

[krk]

was that 1st place winner grown inside or out Nevil?

 

[Limeygreen]

Nevil, where does the Madness variety come in to play? I always have heard rumours that it is superior or Oz's answer to Haze. Would this little gem be around to contribute or is not in the sort to be used in the project?

 

[Nevil]

Maybe Cultivators Choice did enter that year, can't remember to be sure. I recall that not only did I win the 4 catagories, but I got 2nd and 3rd in each catagory as well. Everything that I entered was indoor hydro.
N.

 

[osoloco69]

Sounds like you've been there Osoloco. I'd be inclined to take somebodies word if he knew what he was talking about.
N.

I have been there a few times. There was a guy on overgrow.com who went by the handle OaxacanGrower. He was working on some very interesting pure Oaxacan genetics. He also had a strain called the Purple Chicken and it was really nice. OaxacanGrower had more landrace Mexican genetics than anyone I have encountered since. When my mom lived there in '69-'70 she said that the best buds came from a farm about 25km north of cuidad Oaxaca. I was able to meet her old friends in el zocalo and she confirmed to me that the strains had stayed the same over 30+ years. It was some of the best pot I have ever been able to smoke...it is tied neck and neck with the Kauai Electric, and Swazi Rooibar also grown on Kauai.

 

[bigherb]

Nevil, where does the Madness variety come in to play? I always have heard rumours that it is superior or Oz's answer to Haze. Would this little gem be around to contribute or is not in the sort to be used in the project?

great idea,ive thought the same

this is a possibility becaz i believe shanti holds the MM seed stock

1luvbigherb

 

[kashrocks]

Nice input Kashrocks

here is some more info on SK1 from Sam:

Bluebeard,
"That is why lines like northern lights, skunk 1, and haze have declined so rapidly over the years. Heterosis did play a factor, but poor male selection was the ultimate downfall."

Real Skunk #1 is maintained by clones and has not changed in 20 years, the male clones were first selected from 10,000 males, and the first selects progeny tested before keepers were selected, good luck trying to smoke them all to test potency. Before that Skunk #1 was grown from seed each year and lots of males were grown each year, from just the best females from the years before, I think Skunk # 1 got better, but what do I know.....

Hi l33T,
The quote you posted concern the stabilization of Sk#1 in Holland (the first part of the §).
The quotes I posted concerns what happened before in the USA.
Hope this helps.
Peace.
Kashgari

 

[L33t]

hi kashrocks

Yeah I posted that quote from Sam intact ,
but I wanted to focus on the last sentence which I believe refer to the US Skunk development..but wasn't 100% certain..so posted it here to hear your comments.

 

[kashrocks]

Yes you re right.
What I posted concern the creation of the hybrid, then followed by the stabilization /inbreeding in the US (the second part of your quotes), then finally the last round of stabilisation in Holland (the first part of your quote).
Peace.
K

 

[Kangativa]

Aside from the Oaxacan and Mullumbimby Madness strains, whose genetics are already here in Australia, I believe the African strains could also play a big role in the cross to make the Grail. My belief is it is going to take a stable strain to do this, coz if you use any of the latest hybrids it could take to long to stabalize.......I could be wrong of course and the trouble with using such above strains, is it will definetly not be a indoor plant as the flowering time of crossing such Sativa's would only suit a sub to tropical climate.....might have to look at 2 types of Grails Nev