Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[Skunkha]

varieties

Hey Skunk
Trust you are well in this world my friend? Spoken like a toker who should know, no doubt! Not wanting to speak too far out of place here, Im told that quite a few of the varieties in Hawaii now are indeed from outside sources, and some of the ones now grown on the islands are much shorter, squat in nature? Im also told that taking shots at the numerous fly over's on the islands is not unheard of as well?

the shootings happened on the Puna side and may involve tour helicopters as well (i don't know the whole story)

da skunk.

 

[Skunkha]

hi good doctor

In 77, a famous old Painter on Maui ( Kenneth R Niezman), told Me that He and His brother brought the first Marijuanna seed back to the Hawaiian Islands after their service in the Korean war. He was a Character,but the story may very well be true. People in Lahaina said it was true back 33 years ago.

he may be one of many however

Hawaii is a "mosaic" culture-wise as opposed to a "melting pot" the many cultures seek to preserve their language and customs and in many respects form their own little cultural islands. the only problem i have giving your friend the title of first seed: how could he have known whether Filipe or Kimo, or Juan or Shoji or Jim or Chan or Sang did not beat him to the punch. sure maybe in his "community on Maui he was first, but was he the first overall

 

[Dr. Purpur]

he may be one of many however

Hawaii is a "mosaic" culture-wise as opposed to a "melting pot" the many cultures seek to preserve their language and customs and in many respects form their own little cultural islands. the only problem i have giving your friend the title of first seed: how could he have known whether Filipe or Kimo, or Juan or Shoji or Jim or Chan or Sang did not beat him to the punch. sure maybe in his "community on Maui he was first, but was he the first overall

I always thought the same. He would have been in his late 80s now, but Hes Gone. I do somehow think that the Korean war was a good possibilitiy as to where the Hawaiian strains originated. The Sativa strains.

 

[Nevil]

I find describing the smell and high of cannabis difficult, yet the two are most definitely linked. I also find that complexity of smell and high are also linked.
Taking the Mustang Nepalese I once had as an example, the smell was between pine and camphor. But not a blend of both, that would make it too complex, it had a kind of singular quality about it. The high was the same. It was as if the plant was acting as a prism that translates the full spectrum of sunlight into a single colour. Colour changes to sound and a high pitched note is left ringing in your mind. The note contains a sense of alarm, impending danger, a feeling that it's too late. You imagine, this is what it feels like after you have jumped off a cliff without a parachute, but before you land. You feel more alive, alert and somehow more fully conscious, but there is an implied warning in the effect.
The smell was telling me all this. Like a musician being handed sheet music, you knew what the song was before you heard a note.

The Oaxacan, in my memory, was much more complex. It was fruity, but had tang, with a full bodied sweetness, more fruit salad than just fruit.. The smell had the promise of leading to something delicious and it did. It was strong, yet it had balance. If the Nepalese was playing high C, the Oaxacan was playing a chord with resonance. It was a comfortable feeling, high yet grounded, profound and content. I am reminded more of a beach party, a celebration of life, (Shakira shaking her arse comes to mind).
It had the well rounded high of an Indica /Sativas hybrid, without being one.
This Mexican Sativa was no accident of nature. I'm sure it was bred by a Master with a love for life.
N.

 

[kashrocks]

Some interesting quotes...

Hi all
and welcome to Nevil,

Here are some old quotes from Sam_Hermsitall4sure which I feel can help contribute to a better understanding of the events surrounding the history of Haze:

The first pot I smoked was 1965, Mexican I bought from a Russian girl at my high school, 3 doobies for $.75

The first homegrown I smoked was 1968 from Laguna Beach grown by one of the Brotherhood Of Eternal Love, it was Mexican and not yet done, but still more potent then seeded imports.

The name Original Haze was made up by R.L. around 1970,

When did you first see and smoke the Haze?
1971 for me.

All Original Haze seeds made today by others are F10+ a long way from the F1's. I have clones that are F2-F5. But they are not anywhere as good as the F1's from the 1970's.

I was at the first High Times Cannabis Cup and can assure you that Neville did not buy any Original Haze seeds there. He had gotten them well before the event. And he did get a clone from me because he did not want to grow out a few hundred Original Haze seeds to pick out a keeper.

The Haze were multiple lines with many crosses with different parents. Some were 50% Thai, most were not.

Burning Bush was a pure Original Haze, on the Thai side with very thin buds that looked like shit, except they were covered in resin, an Oz would make a ziplock all sticky as hell inside. It was very very strong. Also hard to roll a jay because it was so sticky and did not burn so great, even though dryed and cured perfect. Just to much resin.

Also I clearly remember Sam stated on OG that before he contributed thaï genetics from a loose(not on sticks)imports to the Haze, the "Brothers" had previously made a thaï stick/Haze line.
Unfortunately I can't find anymore this quote in my archives.
Maybe someone else on the forum remembers it or saved it ?

Then finally just for the fun:

"I do not know what others did but I never normally used Haze males as they are only predicable by growing out the progeny of many crosses X each male to be tested. A lot of work. "

Thank you Nevil for your integrity and the hard work you've done along all those years.

Peace.

Kashgari

PS- One more thing Nevil, could you please clarify if the Burning Bush ancestor concerned the 69'/70' batch of seeds? Thanks.

 

[Nevil]

Originally Posted by Knowsitall4sure / Cannabis World
I was at the first High Times Cannabis Cup and can assure you that Neville did not buy any Original Haze seeds there. He had gotten them well before the event. And he did get a clone from me because he did not want to grow out a few hundred Original Haze seeds to pick out a keeper.

The first Cannabis cup was at my house so this knowitall doesn't know much. For sure.
I've already passed on what I know about the Haze. Burning Bush was a plant that Sam mentioned. This quote would indicate that he is not the breeder of the '69 seeds.

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman / Icmag
The first homegrown I smoked was 1968 from Laguna Beach grown by one of the Brotherhood Of Eternal Love, it was Mexican and not yet done, but still more potent then seeded imports.

N.

 

[bigherb]

kashrocks

great first post ,i truly appreciate these old post i think in this single post ive seen more info from his old post then ever before intriguing

i was about to pm you until i seen this is all the posts saved in your pc

id appreciate if anymore info or old post you hav you'd pm me

not speaking for nev but he said som seed stock of ohaze a batch was labeled burning bush ,exact quote below

I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more

also interesting

The Haze were multiple lines with many crosses with different parents. Some were 50% Thai, most were not

this post is wat makes think B.S ,SOME


again
2 years later but he claim to kno all the parents (the many lumbo's gold/ wackyweed soo on) which really isnt possible and where would the 66 come in if knew the brothers/was neighbors watched all the grows ,where was he from 66 to 71 or 69 too 71

Originally Posted by Knowsitall4sure / Cannabis World
When did you first see and smoke the Haze?
1971 for me.

it become more clear the more time goes on


you might live a lie ,but you cant hide from the truth


1luvbigherb

 

[kashrocks]

Nev,

Sam_Skunkman had several handle on the net along the years.

Sam_Skunkman from OG and Icmag = Romberryherms at OG = Knowsitall4sure at CW.
This is a well known fact in the online community.

Peace.

Kash

 

[biteme]

a few decades ago i had a close friend in the military who was stationed in honolulu so i enjoyed the luxury of bumming those beaches in the early 70s. and yes, the grow was on in a big way even back then and it was plenty expensive too. back then i would fly from the states with as much mex/columbo/jamaican i could afford and dared to carry and gi's stationed there grabbed it up. my friend had a hawaiian girlfriend who took seeds out of my loads and planted and passed them on and the really neat thing i noticed was that in a matter of only 2 or 3 generations, what used to be mexican brick became hawaiian! it was sold on the beach as kona gold. the climate and volcanic medium in this particular instance was the story and imo, the very best of the haze has similar advantages. peace-biteme

 

[Nevil]

I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more

I didn't say the bag was labeled burning bush. Sam said something about burning bush being an ancestor of the Haze. If Sam is Knowsitall4sure then he didn't smoke Haze til '71.
If that's true, what would he know about seeds made by somebody else 2 years before he had even smoked the variety?
N.

 

[JessE]

Hi all,
Its good to see Kashgari back from the shadow realm online, for those of you who do not know, Kashgari is a long time MNS grower (a darn good one at that) and supporter, and one of the most knowledgable members on any forum today.

A member at Icmag showed up some time ago, and posted some interesting information from Old High Times magazines (much to the dismay of Sam), among the old posts was an interview with individuals claiming to be the Haze brothers, who shared some interesting information as to the origins of Haze.

One such interview, from November, 1982 of High Times quotes one of the haze brothers on the original story of how the variety known as haze came to be:

There was this old surfer” Brother Number Two told me. “And the legend goes that he met this hippie on a beach on the central California coast and gave him these very special magical seeds. The hippie planted them, and practically overnight this amazing purple pot plant came up. Well, he smoked some and decided (to) sleep with the plant until it produced enough seeds, then he went out on a kind of Johnny Appleseed trip and, maybe because of the Jimi Hendrix song, the whole seed strain came to be called ‘purple Haze'."

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=2761

It has its own limitations, but considering the dates and times, in relation to previously 'understood' information on the line, something I obviously found of interest.

For those of us who have worked with the haze varieties from here at MNS, its not hard to understand why this subject is so intriguing, based off the outstanding quality of the line which has captured more than a few folks hearts and imaginations.

 

[kashrocks]

Hi Jesse,
thank your for the compliments.
However I do not think I am "one of the most knowledgable members on any forum today", I am just a grower.
You and Hempy are the oldest members I recognize overhere.
I remember your first grows at CW....lol.
It seems you have become quite an accomplished outdoor grower now.
Cheers.
K.

 

[ortega_seeker]

I second kashgar's claim that sam=knowsitallforsure=romberryherm, I was there too and would add another "sam handle" from back in the day... truthmonger. I still think the best name is the one nevil gave him... monsanto sam sure fits for a guy that desperately tries to establish ownership of important genetic lines so that he can sell the rights to them to big pharma.

 

[Scorpion]

Hi Jesse,
thank your for the compliments.
However I do not think I am "one of the most knowledgable members on any forum today", I am just a grower.
You and Hempy are the oldest members I recognize overhere.
I remember your first grows at CW....lol.
It seems you have become quite an accomplished outdoor grower now.
Cheers.
K.

 

[kashrocks]

I second kashgar's claim that sam=knowsitallforsure=romberryherm, I was there too and would add another "sam handle" from back in the day... truthmonger. I still think the best name is the one nevil gave him... monsanto sam sure fits for a guy that desperately tries to establish ownership of important genetic lines so that he can sell the rights to them to big pharma.

Lol....now that you speak of it I remember the Truthmonger handle.
I think I remember he even used this handle in conjunction with the classic Sam_Skunkman at OG to answer his own posts.

Once you have grown Sk#1, Afg#1 or Durban from him I can tell you the name Hermsitall4sure fit him very well too.
Peace.

K.

 

[JessE]

I second kashgar's claim that sam=knowsitallforsure=romberryherm, I was there too and would add another "sam handle" from back in the day... truthmonger. I still think the best name is the one nevil gave him... monsanto sam sure fits for a guy that desperately tries to establish ownership of important genetic lines so that he can sell the rights to them to big pharma.

This information is definitely a fact, nice post ortega. Seems you've been paying attention . It would seem Im one of very few members who have had the oppurtunity to speak with Sam extensively, from CW to Icmag. I can recall quite a few conversations with him as knowsitall4sure, but indeed he has been known under a few aliases, most of which Kash has zero'd in on. I would be willing to bet there are some we do not know about as well, call it a hunch

Below is some info Ive lifted from previous post, which demonstrate what Ortega is touching upon. Of particular interest to me is Sams long time partner, R.C. Clarke, who it appears has had a plan for many years now, one which he ultimately capitalized on.

In the annals of medical-marijuana history, it was a significant moment: In June 1998, British regulators granted GW Pharmaceuticals a license to cultivate and supply marijuana for research and pharmaceutical development. There was just one problem: Where in the world would Geoffrey Guy, GW's founder and chairman, find a legal source of pharmaceutical-grade marijuana seeds -- enough to grow "tons" of material? Someone in England's Home Office gave Guy a tip: A reclusive Dutch company called Hortapharm, founded by two Californian expatriates, might be able to help him out.

http://cannabis.net/cannabis-seed/index.html

Below are some excerpts from Skunkmans partner, R.C. Clarke from Marijuana Botany: An Advanced Study



Clarke (1981) wrote the following:

Does the slight recombination of a plant's genetic material by a breeder give him the right to own that organ- ism and its offspring? Despite public resistance voiced by conservation groups, the Plant Variety Protection Act of 1970 was passed and currently allows the patenting of 224 vegetable crops. New amendments could grant patent holders exclusive rights for 18 years to distribute, import, export and use for breeding purposes their newly developed strains. Similar conventions worldwide could further threaten genetic resources. Should patented varieties of Cannabis become reality it might be illegal to grow any strain other than a patented variety, especially for food or medicinal uses. Limitations could also be imposed such that only low-THC strains would be patentable. This could lead to restrictions on small-scale growing of Cannabis; commercial growers could not take the chance of stray pollinations from private plots harming a valuable seed crop. Proponents of plant patenting claim that patents will encourage the development of new varieties. In fact, patent laws encourage the spread of uniform strains devoid of the genetic diversity which allows improvements. Patent laws have also fostered intense competition between breeders and the suppression of research results which if made public could speed crop improvement. A handful of large corporations hold the vast majority of plant patents. These conditions will make it impossible for cultivators of native strains to compete with agribusiness and could lead to the further extinction of native strains now surviving on small farms in North America and Europe. (pg.4)


R.C Clarke (1981) wrote in Marijuana Botany: An Advanced Study:

At this time it seems unlikely that a plant patent would be awarded for a pure-breeding strain of drug Cannabis. In the future, however, with the legalization of cultivation, it is a certainty that corporations with the time, space, and money to produce pure and hybrid strains of Cannabis will apply for patents. Itmay be legal to grow only certain patented strains produced by large seed companies. Will this be how Government and industry combine to control the quality and quantity of "drug" Cannabis? (pg.38)


http://zone-gnostik.org/bd/Resistance-Anarchie-Subversion/Drugs/Marijuana/MarijuanaBotanyAnAdvancedStudy-Clarke.pdf

At a secret location in southeastern England, GW Pharmaceuticals has built what might well be the most high-tech pot palace on the planet. Surrounded by electrified razor wire, video cameras, and motion detectors, the greenhouse sprawls across more than an acre of land. At any one time, more than 15,000 marijuana plants are growing under its 14-foot ceiling, with its banks of lights. Inside is a sea of green, comprised of some of the world's most potent strains of pot: Hindu Kush, White Widow, Skunk, Northern Lights. Outside of the Netherlands, GW is the only commercial organization in Europe licensed to cultivate cannabis on this scale.

http://www.maps.org/media/fc021704_2.html



According to a 2005 article with Walrus Magazine:

There is no question that GW plans to enforce its patents on Sativex, which is a precisely dosed medicine. Warns Guy: “To protect our extensive investment, we have sought to identify and patent certain inventions throughout the growing, extraction and manufacturing process. My comments to Mr. Lucas were made as a friendly and, hopefully, helpful gesture as I did not wish him to invest a great amount of effort into obtaining approval for a product as a prescription medicine only to find that he did not have the freedom to operate in the first place. (Preston, pars. 1-12)

http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/2005.02-medicine-medical-marijuana-activist/


Additional recommended reading:

The World According to Monsanto
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=3577

Knowing that a small handful varieties are literally the pillars in which the entire cannabis industry is built upon, if these lines are patented (by their rightful owners or charlatans alike) the possibility of Monsanto like problems facing the marijuana community becomes a very real possibility.

How many of the strains that are so famous today contain no Northern Lights? Skunk #1? Haze? White Widow? If you were to walk into the grow rooms of those who supply the coffee shops and medical facilties around the world... all of these lines could be readily found. If corporate interest own the rights to these lines, they essentially control the market. With the Monsanto link above showing the current situation other farmers growing legal genetically patented crops are facing, one does not have to imagine hard what the future may contain later down the road for us all if legalization becomes a reality.

This is one of many reasons why the truth surrounding the lines that are so famous today needs to be known. Otherwise, without anyone paying attention to these nuances we may very well be contributing to shooting ourselves in the foot. One can not predict the future, but to ignore the facts is a grave mistake.

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=2761&page=18

 

[kashrocks]

I didn't say the bag was labeled burning bush. Sam said something about burning bush being an ancestor of the Haze. If Sam is Knowsitall4sure then he didn't smoke Haze til '71.
If that's true, what would he know about seeds made by somebody else 2 years before he had even smoked the variety?
N.

Thank you for the clarification.

K.

 

[Nevil]

Interesting thread JessE. Who is this Jim Dankness who uses my photo for his Avatar and councils us not to delve into Sams past? Some spin doctor whose post seems to get it's credence from this quote:

Skunkman is a grade A pompous ass,

While as it's true that, Sam never let the truth get in the way of his overinflated ego, he is far from harmless.

I understand that children don't like to see their parents squabble, so I'll leave it there, unless I'm forced to confront the issue.

Oh and BTW, I was never Sams partner as one article stated.
N.

 

[kashrocks]

Hi Scorp,

I was thinking noone had saved this picture. I posted it by two times once on CW and once on Icmag. On CW the only person who replied to my post was Shanti. At that time I thought nobody seemed to care.

I can see now that I was wrong.

Peace.
K.

 

[Scorpion]

High Kash,
I try to save those things that are truly important,sorry to say I only have a photo.
BTW, Welcome to Mr NICE Forums.

always
scorpion