The origins of Haze

[bigherb]

Since it looks like some civil convo is about

Id like to add this quote of a post of mine a few days ago

This is a touchy topic that Nevil spoke on abit ,id just like to add.

Nevil says there were no conditions/deal/agreement

The 85/86 catalog is a place to look which can be the argument,there are several pure varieties which come Via SAMS,But if you look Sams also mentions that no hybrids using both his varieties were to be made.I Dont believe that line ,But cant imagine no agreement was had.


I think Sams got some pair to make that statment about Nevil ,who has given credit where it's due and been honest about his source of genetics. When SAMS made his name from varieties he never bred.Tooo think Sams had smoked all the haze varieties and Nevil admitts he neva smoked santa cruz haze ,But Not one of SAMS haze varietes recieved world acclaim ,on the other hand Nevil will be in gardens for all eternity



1luvbigherb

i take No sides as ive told Nevil during the discussion wen he was here,It's just nevil was now posting n Actually answering questions soo i had some questions myself.

IM not n wont say wat happen then caz i wasnt there but there was more than just pure skunk offered


1luvbigherb

 

[british_hempire]

Did you miss when I went over this in depth a while back?

In the 85 catalogue the only lines of sams are skunk #1 and afghani #1.

In the 86 catalogue there is sk1, afg1, durban poison and cali orange, the latter two probably weren't bred by Sam and as Nevil said, he should be given credit for couriering them to Holland.

Then there was Early Girl that came from RCC.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

In the 86 catalogue there is sk1, afg1, durban poison and cali orange, the latter two probably weren't bred by Sam and as Nevil said, he should be given credit for couriering them to Holland.

Sam has claimed, numerous times, that he was the creator/breeder of cali-o and durban among others. Maybe sam is lying? I don't know. Who bred the cali-o and DP if not sam?

FWIW, I really don't know, so this is just an honest question. Not looking for a flame war here, just info-mations.

HB.

 

[bigherb]

Really???


Its clear how we feel about each other ,But R your comments nescessary

Did you forget what just occured

what happen to the civil convo ,why do i always get an attitude??

you been preaching 4 the last couple of days you should practice what you preach

Did you forget your post #67 #87 in the poll thread ?

This is what im on about

That just isn't true, apart from Skunk #1, what lnes of Sam's did Nev even offer in pure form?

nevils strains coming from sams stock OHAZE ,S.indian, sk#1, afg#1 ,early girl, calif orange, indian sat, S.african dp 34

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s.../5577-1985-seed-bank-catalog-5.html#post80883



you forgot indsat from 86 n in 85 could it be possible karzy karol was the pure indian kerala from the hybrid on the same page,the south indian from Sams

Were were civilly discussing the topic at the time and you made some interesting contributions

 

[kashrocks]

"Jeez"...the guy is a true psykopat...

Peace.

K.

 

[british_hempire]

Jeez bigherb, don't be so touchy, you're really uppity over nothing often.

Sam has claimed, numerous times, that he was the creator/breeder of cali-o and durban among others. Maybe sam is lying? I don't know. Who bred the cali-o and DP if not sam?

FWIW, I really don't know, so this is just an honest question. Not looking for a flame war here, just info-mations.

HB.

Cali-O may well have been bred by Jerry Biesler, the story goes Sam bought the seed from Jerry's ex-wife. Sadly Jerry is in ill health these days.

Durban Poison may have come from two different sources, some say it came from the midwest where a guy called Sandy Weinstein was working, others that it was around the Bay Area for ages and Sam picked it up there, it was supposed to have come as imported durban buds.

 

[bigherb]

G`day Folks

Here`s A little more information to mull over before we go getting carried away and start callin people LIARS .


At 6 weeks !

From Resin Buds NHz thread .
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/nevilles-haze/4363-nevilles-haze-grown-tropics-12.html
Thanks for sharin
Elmer Bud .

Elmer

Thanks for that link ,Its most APPRECIATED


Hopfully others will mull over it LOL i just learned a new word

Much respect to my man with the purple nevilles haze ,Resin bud those plants r gorgeous


1luvbigherb

 

[biteme]

i have had SAMS in my sights from the time he first posted up at og/cw, a time when many portrayed him as a cult hero of sorts and he relished in the idea of that role. even though my mj education was in its infancy, i was a well versed pro when it came to the legal establishment. sam gave explanations of his dealings with the authorities which did not ring true. quite the contrary, but SAMS is also a sophisticated liar capable of wrapping elements of truth into his bs. so i can understand how people are taken in. they wanted to believe.

so one more time i will state that this man does not tell the truth. i address only his explanations of his associations with the authorities as i consider myself too much of a neophyte to talk genetics. so it is left to you who want to believe just what should be believed? peace-biteme

 

[JessE]

Hi all,
Its good to see the thread swing back into a direction it had previously touched on, as prior to Shanti's initial write ups at the Italian forums, and those who brought the idea up Icmag and here at MNS etc. the topic simply was not covered. At all. And that was the case for almost a decade, I often wonder why so many of you do not think thats a little bit odd?

For many years, the story at the forums was all Skunk Man. There was little mention of Nevil outside the MNS circles, chiefly Hempy and Kashgari (and a few others ), and they were only a small voice of reason in a sea of misinformation. Which a majority of the forum(s) lapped up, hook line and sinker. There is an interesting psychology to the online forums, not just at the cannabis websites either, where if the majority seem to be under the impression something is fact...it must be so! And when the majority are in this position, it seems to bring a lull of satisfaction with the information and "truth" as it stands where nobody cares to research the other side of the coin or dare to go against the majority.

For a decade, if not longer online, the story was Skunk Man. Everyone else, (who else was there? lol) were just minor players in the Skunk Mans major leagues. And slowly this perception has started to open up into a larger picture, and the majority are starting to see a little bit more around the edges. However most still can not see forest for the tree's. While I would say the truth will definitely vary depending on who you're talking with, others may have a different opinion. Which is fine, but as I have said for years, research things in depth and arrive at your own conclusions. Just because Joe Schmoe says its true, does not mean that it is...look into everything for yourself and arrive at your own thoughts.

This is the Mr. Nice Seed Bank and Research forum after all. Where some seem to have a problem with the truth and hard, verifiable facts...this forum has and always will be about the truth. No matter how ugly or glorious it may be.

 

[british_hempire]

It really is pointless to gloat after the fact.

The point has been made before and needs to be made again, the people who were defending Nevil's side of things lacked tact, manners and were frequently downright offensive. That alone did a lot to defeat their purpose.

But the real reason is how united the other side were, they all stood to profit from maintaining the myths and legends and it was akin to business suicide to break ranks.

Since the fall of overgrow the cannabis seed retail industry has been dominated by one figure - Gypsy Nirvana. He works closely with Arjan, the 420 cups are always held in one of Arjan's shops, GHS always wins a few baubles each year, it's a cosy deal. Sam is tied in closely with those guys as are a lot of others - Soma, Mila, etc etc.

They all sing from the same hymnsheet because it is in their interests to do so, few dare to break ranks and speak out. I can name a few people who have actively promoted the Sam/Gypsy/Arjan side's version of history, some of them I listened to, they seemed very credible because they treated me well. I realised back in 2008 that there was a definite 'you're with us or you're against us' modus operandi going on with those guys and for a little while I played along but when it became apparent to them I wasn't with them they decided I must be against them. Neutral doesn't seem o be acceptable to them.

Let's be honest here, if Nevil hadn't resurfaced to tell the truth about a few things, many people would have remained in the dark. As much as some will try to claim 'I told you so' that glosses over a whole heap of issues. Primarily, the people shouting the loudest that the generally told and accepted version of history wasn't fully factual to say the least lacked credibility. Nevil doesn't lack creibility hence people listened to him when they hadn't to others. I'm a prime example of that, I sat and listened and took in everything Nevil had to say. You see, it's not just about what you say, it's how you say it and if you say it in a nasty, offensive manner and call people all sorts of names for nothing more than accepting a false legend then people won't listen to you.

One final thing, you have to ask yourself, why weren't there any other players to contest the Skunkman's tales? Perhaps the Skunkman is partly responsible for that? Certainly those who have opposed him had had their travails with authority and the suspicious might see some ulterior connection their.

Anyways, it's pointless saying 'I told you so' now and only leads to bad feeling, we should all try to learn from the experience. Some need to learn to improve their manners, attitude and communication skills, others need to learn to research things for themselves before accepting things as fact. No-one here is completely white in all this and it's a bad idea to start apportioning blame or pointing fingers anywhere else than the other side - Sam and his supporters, they are where the blame really lies.

 

[kashrocks]

It really is pointless to gloat after the fact.

The point has been made before and needs to be made again, the people who were defending Nevil's side of things lacked tact, manners and were frequently downright offensive. That alone did a lot to defeat their purpose.

Show me once where I have been offensive in the past.

I always let others like you insult me without answering.

Check my threads of CW, OG and Icmag...there are no insults....it is rather me who used to get insulted by members who were protected by the autorities.

You are a fool...

And Shanti....did he lacked manners and tact too?

You are a clown b_h...

K.

 

[british_hempire]

Last time I respond to you.

The fact you posted in response just proves me point.

For you to claim you have never been offensive stretches the bounds of hypocrisy so far it causes incredulity.

I never mentioned Shanti, it goes without saying that he doesn't lack credibility hence I didn't feel the need to point out such an abvious exception.

I thought you might have learnt from your past approach to modify your appraoch in future, that would be the sensible approach. Probably a bit too late for you to gain credibility in many eyes though.

 

[kashrocks]

Last time I respond to you.

LOL...

Good night.

K.

 

[PlantManBee]

Who bred the cali-o and DP if not sam?

Durban Poison may have come from two different sources, some say it came from the midwest where a guy called Sandy Weinstein was working, others that it was around the Bay Area for ages and Sam picked it up there, it was supposed to have come as imported durban buds.

yeah, seems it was probably either SW or Mel Frank.

this interview has MF talking about it. not sure which segment has it but he talks about it. makes sense as he talks about the numbers game concerning breeding DP as an example in "the insiders guide". plus the book is dedicated to SW. it seems certain that they were sharing genetics.

YouTube - The Grow Show - Mel Frank [1of4]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnkmZCuzQDs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvkcfrcXmMM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwwL1Snp5JQ&feature=related

 

[biteme]

jesse, i want to state that there was a time when most of what was known of nevil came from SAMS. in later years sam distanced himself from nevil but there was a time sam had him thoroughly entwined in his bs. sadly, very little is available of those old og/cw threads. which also turned out to be a good thing for me!

these posts were written a long time ago and quite frankly, i don't recall what i may have said about nevil? forum time was my rec time, still is. smoke and joke but when sam's tongue would get stuck in his own honey was a typical time his lies would hide him behind nevil's skirt. obvious lies that told all he never had much contact with the legal system in the usa in spite of his tales. i wish i could say i outed him but that was not the case however, i did join the brigade at an early date. and he left og. next i saw him he was a new knave to gypsy nirv?

fookin' SAMS. what is he up to now? he has very big cojones according to recent info via mr. marco of ty. i no longer have the stamina needed to wage the verbal wars. and besides, it's time for younger men to rise to the challenge. good luck and peace-biteme

 

[british_hempire]

yeah, seems it was probably either SW or Mel Frank.

this interview has MF talking about it. not sure which segment has it but he talks about it. makes sense as he talks about the numbers game concerning breeding DP as an example in "the insiders guide". plus the book is dedicated to SW. it seems certain that they were sharing genetics.

YouTube - The Grow Show - Mel Frank [1of4]
YouTube - The Grow Show - Mel Frank [2of4]
YouTube - The Grow Show - Mel Frank [3of4]
YouTube - The Grow Show - Mel Frank [4of4]

Yeah, Mel Frank on the East Coast and Sandy W in the Midwest have been completely written out of the 'official history' by Sam et al.

Sam was asked about Sandy Weinstein at icmag and flat out said he had never heard of any Sandy Weinstein. Someone should have pointed out he was a well known figure who worked with Mel, contributed to his books and took a lot of photographs that appear in the early publications from the 70s. He is even in one of the pictures in Mel's Deluxe Guide! So Sam flat out lied imho as Sam always mentions he has such a huge collection of books etc so for him not to have heard of Sandy stretches credibility imho.

Sam wrote that he worked the DP for 5-6 genartions and gave up in the end because hermies started to appear and he couldn't get rid of them. I grew the DP x Skunk freebies Gypsy gave away and there were three hermies out of the 5 that germed.

Sam probably did work with DP but I doubt he alone is responsible for it. He wants 100% of the credit, a cynical person would only give him credit for couriering it to Holland. The truth is almost certainly somewhere between those two extremes and rather more complex. I expect a lot more collaboration and sharing went on that we realise and there were many people who made significant contributions that we have never heard of and never will, it's not to be forgotten that these guys were very underground and only a handful like Mel Frank, Jorge Cervantes and Ed Rosenthal ever became known to the wider public, for every guy that we know about there could have been dozens more beavering away.

Look at Nevil's work, there are a few people who contributed to that, Jim 'dankness' ortega springs immediately to mind, there were others, people like Jorge Cervantes, the guys behind Sensimilla Tips, Roger in NYC, they all helped in some way, Nevil gives em all credit for what they did, if Sam did the same history would be a lot clearer and less mysterious.

 

[b0b_b1tch1n]

i find it odd that hempy and jesse stopped posting when someone who actually lives in north america and has one year shy of 3 decades of growing started posting about growing haze related plants

where did you two go ?

maybe JessE is doing an artical about stopping frost with buckets of water ? and no Hempy those buckets didnt have a hole drilled in them so you cant take credit for it

 

[british_hempire]

jesse, i want to state that there was a time when most of what was known of nevil came from SAMS. in later years sam distanced himself from nevil but there was a time sam had him thoroughly entwined in his bs. sadly, very little is available of those old og/cw threads. which also turned out to be a good thing for me!

Now there is a huge controversy that everyone seems to have forgotten about. Jesse should write about that instead of things like Cheese and Haze.

What exactly happened to the CW/OG servers? I heard the mail server ended up in Scotland. Who stood to gain the most from CW and OG disappearing? Easy, Gypsy. Why? Easy, he wanted all the people buying seeds from Heaven's Stairway to join icmag, he wanted icmag to supplement CW and OG as THE cannabis forum, that way he had control and could edit as he wished. Why did the servers disappear never to be heard of again? We know the RCMP didn't have them, story I heard is that the RCMP never seized the servers and that they were eventually sold. Who would want the servers? Not the DEA, they would have already had the whole thing copied and archived and thoroughly studied. I wonder if the reason Old Pink flew to Canada right after the bust wasn't to buy up the servers and any other useful assets. Great for Gypsy if CW and OG never saw the light of day again, it allows for manipulation of the past because all that information has gone. It's analagous to the Spanish burning all the scrolls and codices they found in the Americas because they considered it heresy. Anyways, whatever the truth, there is a world there ripe for research.

these posts were written a long time ago and quite frankly, i don't recall what i may have said about nevil? forum time was my rec time, still is. smoke and joke but when sam's tongue would get stuck in his own honey was a typical time his lies would hide him behind nevil's skirt. obvious lies that told all he never had much contact with the legal system in the usa in spite of his tales. i wish i could say i outed him but that was not the case however, i did join the brigade at an early date. and he left og. next i saw him he was a new knave to gypsy nirv?

Sam is one guy who was probably delighted that CW and OG disappeared, as you know he had multiple handles, ones we know of include the obvious Sam_Skunkman at OG but he was also knowsitall4sure at CW and is thought to have several other handles at both sites. No doubt if CW and OG were still available it wouldn't be too hard to go through Sam's posts and prove that he had said a ton of contradictory things and been caught out more than once.

fookin' SAMS. what is he up to now? he has very big cojones according to recent info via mr. marco of ty. i no longer have the stamina needed to wage the verbal wars. and besides, it's time for younger men to rise to the challenge. good luck and peace-biteme

Yeah, he threatened Marco with the loss of all his European advertisers which would probably have been th end of TY. Next thing you know, Marco has apologised etc etc. Marco says he was clued in to some facts and told enough of the real truth that he saw he was wrong and did a 180 degree turn. I still don't know how to interpret that.

 

[hempy]

i find it odd that hempy and jesse stopped posting when someone who actually lives in north america and has one year shy of 3 decades of growing started posting about growing haze related plants

where did you two go ?

maybe JessE is doing an artical about stopping frost with buckets of water ? and no Hempy those buckets didnt have a hole drilled in them so you cant take credit for it

Were are your pictures bob of these sativas growing in the snow or frost yea no were to be seen like others in this post i noticed your photo gallery had 1 blurry picture and it looked like from what i could tell an indoor grow.

I did not respond because you see bob i did not feel like responding and you and a few more feel like you have the upper hand well you dont bob or can you tell other members what to do your showing your true colors bob and like a few others in here your mouths are larger than your brains.

Elmer posted pics of resinbuds NH at 7 will fully formed flowers well i have grown quiet a few NH and i would of been happy to have had small flowers at that stage but the best i saw at 7 weeks of flower was some plants showing me its sex.

You guys think that the bull shit that went on at CW or ICMAG will fly here it wont.

My gallery has lots of clear pictures bob not 1 blurry one i have not replied to you and yet you post what you did above hoping i react so you can look like the man you hope you were well i wont i will just let you look like than nasty peace of work you truly are.

Bobs only grow picture yep i see snow and i see buckets of water to protect them.

[/IMG]

 

[jim dankness]

Look at Nevil's work, there are a few people who contributed to that, Jim 'dankness' ortega springs immediately to mind, there were others, people like Jorge Cervantes, the guys behind Sensimilla Tips, Roger in NYC, they all helped in some way, Nevil gives em all credit for what they did, if Sam did the same history would be a lot clearer and less mysterious.

I guess having two Jims around here is as confusing as two BH's.

Nevil's associate and the source for Ortega, Garlic Bud & others is 'Dogless.'

Not that I wouldn't want to be on that list above..!