Breeding techniques

Hi Josh,
You're right on the money, as usual. Pun intended. Its all about money, the benjamins $$$$. And feminized seed is a tool used by the scam artist to make money. Thus a healthy explanation why we see the same arguments, from "different" anon handles. All you have to do is trace where the money goes to get an idea of what we're dealing with and their agenda.

Some of these people are very nasty individuals, who seem to have painted themselves in a corner in life that is so dark the only way they feel they can connect with others is by finding a small niche in the corner where they can hide and be as unpleasant as possible. These people are clearly in need of much more then a hug, (professional help), but I would wager a hug could go far for these unfortunate souls.

Whose gig in the industry is it to play the educated plant breeder? Notice their names are nowhere to be found, or rarely found in these types of threads, though anon users spouting the same rhetoric are easily found? Any chance there is a connect there?

Why is it the loudest voices in this thread, are also the most rude? And also the ones who have accomplished nothing in our industry and contributed nothing to our forum? Its unfortunate to see this forum occupied by these arm chair book growers. Even worse, they do not even grow yet talk to members who have contributed a great deal to our community and proven time and time again how great they can grow as if they are nothing. People who have put next to zero time into our industry talking to those who have given all as if they are children....its pathetic really.

The same characters in this thread can be found in hempys feminized seed thread. Using the same half thought out arguments all centered around egotistical drivel which is supported by their youthful fantasies of becoming something without actually putting the time in to actually accomplish their dreams. Some of you should start cracking seed and proving you can grow a plant from start to finish before worrying about theoretical breeding concepts.
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what is any of that bringing to the table? NOTHING and FYI Josh bought up the "feminisation" subject...
 
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Hi Kop,

Hope you did not get up on the wrong side of bed this morning...lol

I have a question for you:

I wondered if you had ever grown one strain from MNS ?:D

Thanx...

Peace.

K.
 
kashrocks said:
Hi Kop,

Hope you did not get up on the wrong side of bed this morning...lol

I have a question for you:

I wondered if you had ever grown one strain from MNS ?:D

Thanx...

Peace.

K.
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Yes maybe you havn't read all I've wrote, I work with a G13/WW cross and have played with BW... and had good experience with both, though did have many phenos from 2 packs of BW...

and I just don't like hypocrites... or people who like snide digs. I do find it funny StressE thinks its all about cash cash money yet I don't sell seed and never will!.
 
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JessE said:
Oh, did I touch a nerve? Feeling guilty about something? ;)
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Nope you are off your head plain and simple!. guilt over what? caring, giving a shit about the plant? you seriously seem deluded that I sell seed or something, that I'm here to say fems are the be all and end all! where I'm not you need all the tools in the box, and many plans of attack .. apply the tool to do the job.. maybe you don't grasp that at all!! Someone here called me a troll yet I'm not posting random attacks for no reason whatsoever I'm I...
 
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JessE said:
lol :D :D

Careful, you'll hurt his feelings and he will delete his account and start number 8 lmao.
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Carry on StressE thats all you have? no insight on techniques? Hempy you aren't worth responding to.
 
Hi all,
For those who may actually click on this thread expecting some sort of useful information actually related to hands on breeding here is a small morsel for you to chew on. Originally posted by another member some time ago, I hope some may find some use for it.

howtodoit.jpg
 
oh glad to see someone have kept the pic jesse, i had posted it because i was surprised to see the breeding technique used by shantibaba. not a usual inbreeding.
 
" feral "

im not such a big fan of weed forums any more, so if your not happy with me i might just slip out,, "back" is probably not the best definition,,,"here" is a better description..

hempy bro,,,im not here to cause problems,,,hopefully you realize im not a bad guy,,an i didn't intend to spark your interest,,i honestly dont care if you state that a mono indervidual is not natural in some [untouched] wild drug-cannabis populations,,it makes no difference to me what your opinion is,,,its not like you publish your opinions and have them peer reviewed,,,maybe if you did then id actually care,,,but as it stands your just posting on the internet,, i just dont care,,,its silly for me to take your word over so many published and reviewed papers,,sorry,,sorry,,,sorry

as im sure you know its only the uneducated who use the word hermaphrodite in relation to drug canna,,,none of hillig`s biotypes are confirmed hermaphrodite!,,if you have had a revelation please do tell and publish it properly,

simpl`s ,,,,

hempy said:
Rick your back i see so is your theoretical text book answers plucked from corn peas and any other botanical plant you see fit to use to describe cannabis.

First off rick lets talk about wild cannabis be it sativas used for hemp in the 1700s like sativas found in India that would get you high unlike hemp of today rick.

There were in fact a few areas were man planted cannabis and it went wild on the Nepean river then we have the famous crop at Newcastle that the hippies would go harvest and one not to far from Brisbane all from the first fleet settlers in australia rick and from what i read they were not Monoceous or as most people call them rick hermaphrodites.

There are areas in African still were theres wild cannabis and other areas around the world be it a few now napal has it growing every were is that hemp rick ? India is that hemp to rick ?.

Artificial selection ha rick like you can breed better than nature can shes been at it for longer than all of us put together rick its od you say this yet feel mans manipulation of species like cannabis like feminisation is perfectly fine.

Maybe the hemp your talking about is in fact GHS fem seeds left to villages after they took there best seed stock and the farmers left them growing as they relised just how bad there fem seeds were and that would explane the Monoceous or as most people call them rick hermaphrodites.

You guys need to spend more time growing i think and less time reading about plant breeding involving peas corn and wheat.
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@ hempy

Pete i told you selfing is plant self pollinating inbreeding is when a male is used to a female related to the male you know genetically the same.
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Selfing is the closest form of inbreeding as others have pointed out to you time and time again, it roughly brings the coefficiant (F) to 0.5, 3x quicker than sib mating would... it has its uses though like anything is open for abuse...

i think you guys have done inuf harm to the genetic pool as it is.
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who is "you guys" I don't think any of us here sell seed... have "the guys" that have produced lots of 1:1 mating harmed enough yet? regardless of the 1:1 mating being male, female or other... people wil hack regardless of method IMO a quick buck is a quick buck...

you don't seem to want to discuss anything else other than the bad of "feminised seedlots".. I think everyone can see the bad when its abused... but that doesn't mean theres no upside...
 
Unclepeter said:
... and FYI Josh bought up the "feminisation" subject...
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Hi Unclepeter,
Strictly speaking, you are correct.

However I was just responding to the following quote by you.

Unclepeter said:
Well that depends where you think we are at with cannabis historically! I'd say for too long people have being things in a bad way! lets look at intersexual prevalence in so called populations! lets look at the fact cannabis is an outcrossing species yet many seem to breed it in an inbred style! how many populations are truly dioecious?
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I had said that intersexual prevalence in modern cultivars was primarily the result of feminized breeding, to which you vehemently disagreed.
That was the beginning of this debate.


JessE said:
Hi Josh,
You're right on the money, as usual. Pun intended. Its all about money, the benjamins $$$$. And feminized seed is a tool used by the scam artist to make money. Thus a healthy explanation why we see the same arguments, from "different" anon handles. All you have to do is trace where the money goes to get an idea of what we're dealing with and their agenda...

...Why is it the loudest voices in this thread, are also the most rude? And also the ones who have accomplished nothing in our industry and contributed nothing to our forum? Its unfortunate to see this forum occupied by these arm chair book growers...

...The same characters in this thread can be found in hempys feminized seed thread. Using the same half thought out arguments...

...A shame money takes the place for passion when it comes to our beloved plant. Even worse that its happening here at our forum, built on the work of legitimate potsmen and now taken over by wannabe's and charlatans.
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Thanks Jesse,

So when you say it is about money, I am wondering, pardon my ignorance, as I do not fully understand the politics of all this crap, as I just got online a few short months ago, and only registered on here for an opportunity to thank Nevil, whom I was fortunate enough to buy seeds from over 20 years ago.


Are you referring to the fact that it is much more difficult to breed with feminized seed so that folks who purchase feminized seed are likely to be forced into buying more seed, and that these folks who are so vehemently defending feminized seed and hailing it as the only truly environmentally sound and legitimate form of breeding, are in fact seedsellers who are threatened by the return of legendary masters like Nevil and Shanti?

or is it something else.

Might they be attempting to spin rhetoric against 1:1 matings,(which, by utilizing progeny tested males, are one of the secrets to selectively breeding for agricultural improvement), not because they are actually against 1:1 matings but more because they do not want people breeding on their own, hence, in their own eyes, threatenning the market for seedsellers such as themselves?


This is all conjecture. perhaps you could help to clarify.



But I do have a question for GITT and Unclepeter,


The both of you seem to be staunch advocates of feminized breeding, while simultaneously denouncing 1:1 matings. To me this seems to me to be a bit of a contradiction.
How do you reconcile this? I know you guys don't like to go into detail about your closely guarded trade techniques, but what do you do when practicing feminized breeding to avoid the dreaded 1:1 mating?
Do you open pollenate with a roomful of females that have been treated with gibberelic acid? How many females do you use to insure genetic diversity?
Or do you use some other method, that traditional breeders like myself, are just too dim to understand? Please explain? I think it is about time, to enlighten us.
Thank you.
 
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ok...il tell you a little about myself :)

i have never wanted to be a breeder,,,,i never felt i was good enough to create seeds, but then again i dont feel many people are!!,,,selection aint for the unworthy!!,,,an who was to say i was not an unworthy:)?,,,at the time,,no one,,,no one that matterd anyways:)

its probably over 3 years ago since i made my big jump,,but hay whos counting?:),,,,,,,,, anyways,,,,back in 06 i was of a similar mindset to you,,i admit it!,,,i refused to serve people with feminized seeds from my uncles shop,,,,but things have changed since then,,,

initaly i made my judgement from growers who bought DutchPassion and Greenhouse`s first cockup`s,,,,the first thing i did was boycott feminized seeds!!,,, but in 07 i had to re-evaluated my opinion after i personly started seeing some very special clones from batches of feminized seed,,stress testing proved positive too,,,,what was i to think?,,,feminized breeding obviously had an upside!!,,,

i was dealing with nothin but F1`s for years,,,,an the only SUPA clones i seemd to see came from Soma direct before the cheese clone wich i got in 06,,,

when it came to seeds i needed the consistency, as was the trend through the 90`s and early 00`s in our local shop,,,,, but after years of dealing with F1 seed i slowly became a clone only grower,,in 06 i was boycotting seeds altogether on a personal level ,,,i needed them SUPA clones,,,by 04/05 i had seriously started to rely on my mothers and when it came to finding new mothers from seed its was a serious ballache,,, F1 was just not upto the challange!!,,GHS had turned to crap and i didnt relize shanti made them black packs so special,,,i thought the seed-game was over!!,,,clones ,,clones ,,,clones,

anyways,,around 05 i lost my cuts from Soma,,so i started putting the word out that i needed some clones,,i got a cheese clone by 06 but sitll i was hardcore pheno hunting,,,in 07 i started noticing some extremely high quality individual`s comming from fem seed baches,,,,,fems started started to change game for me as a clone grower,,,,everyman and his dog was finding elite clones from feminized seeds,,,i had to investigate!!!

it was tomhill and raco who slaped me in the face with my first book or 2!,,,things change bro!!,,,i have learnt there is a higher level out there in the scientific comunity,,if we try we can elevate this whole sh1t bro!!

btw,,i was living in amsterdam when i was 17 in 2000 chillin in the sensi coffeshop on damstraat,,,people who know know,,,;)

hands on,,,:),lol,,,,i salute you with a vrip,,,:),,,welcome to 2011:),,,the future is now:)
 
Unclepeter said:
Was it in here we were looking at this!, we never got the answers...

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breede...39-breeding-terms-definitions-examples-3.html
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Do your homework...

Nevil said:
As cannabis slowly gains acceptance as a ligitimate enterprise, breeders will have to lift their game. Just look at the serious breeders of anything legal, Chrysanthemums, birds, dogs, horses etc. Read some of the books written by these people. Study the online pedigree data bases, we've got some catching up to do. Pedigrees are a written record of what master breeders did, that was successful. Your insights will not come from a scientific journal. Books with catchy titles like "Patterns of Greatness" and "Inbreeding to Superior Females" will steer you in the right direction.
N.
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Peace.

K.
 
I find it amazing that anyone would knock a bit of scientific knowledge. If you were ill, would you rather go to a 30 year old newly qualified doctor, or a 70 year old witch doctor with 50 years of practical experience of waving a feather around? It does no one any harm to learn a bit about what's actually going on inside their plant, admittedly it may not in itself produce a better offspring generation, however how would it hurt? And on occasions, may lead to the answer that is needed. I can understand the difficulty if english isn't ones first language, or if they find it impossible to soak the knowledge up, however a little perseverance may prove a valuable experience.
Hempy, you said that a few years ago Rick wasn't that knowledgeable, I guess since you qualified it, you now feel that he has learned a lot since that point. Do you feel that increase in knowledge came from doing what he had already been doing for a bit longer, or from the fact that that's when he started to read up on the subject? Experience is all well and good, but couple experience with knowledge, and I truly feel that what can be done will surpass what a few decades of "playing" with plants could achieve. :eek: Don't take that last sentence personally, I'm saying that one can only get so much from hands on experience, not that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm just not that confrontational.
 
The both of you seem to be staunch advocates of feminized breeding, while simultaneously denouncing 1:1 matings. To me this seems to me to be a bit of a contradiction.
How do you reconcile this? I know you guys don't like to go into detail about your closely guarded trade techniques, but what do you do when practicing feminized breeding to avoid the dreaded 1:1 mating?
Do you open pollenate with a roomful of females that have been treated with gibberelic acid? How many females do you use to insure genetic diversity?
Or do you use some other method, that traditional breeders like myself, are just too dim to understand? Please explain? I think it is about time, to enlighten us.
Thank you.
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Theres no trade secret Josh, why if you breed a gynoecious line or a gynoecious F1 hybrid does it have to be 1:1 just like with M/F matings!! it doesn't the answer lies in what you have written use more than 1. The same rule applies or at least should keep the numbers up... I find you far from dim Josh...
 
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