Dear Sensi Seed Administration,
Recently my attention has been brought to attacks made upon my research on the legendary strain of marijuana known as Northern Lights.
http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6550
Now I must admit, I was taken off guard a bit by the nature of the response(s) from your company. Especially in light of the fact I had written, supported and even recommended Sensi Seeds in the same article you criticize as being "an ad" for Mr. Nice Seeds. Not only was Sensi Seeds mentioned in a positive light, but other seed companies such as Dutch Passion were also given some credit because they themselves are in possession of a line of cannabis known as "Oasis" which is of course said to be Northern Lights #2. Generally speaking, ads do not include competitors of said company. Rather, the article was written for the intentions of bringing the general information surrounding the Northern Lights strain together in an effort to make the general story and facts as easily accessible to the curious reader as possible.
Considering the nature of your responses to my article, I believe its only fair that I am able to respond back appropriately to your accusations about the inaccuracies of my article. For starters, nearly every piece of information contained within the framework of the article itself can easily be sourced to legitimate and valid sources within the industry. To insinuate I would purposely mislead the readers, especially when you, yourselves, have not put in the same kind of research before taking the positions you have, is causation for one to stop and evaluate your true motives and intentions.
In order to address the points of topic made by Sensi Seeds, first one must have a solid foundation of information in which to base their opinion. As I have previously written, the strain known as Northern Lights is said to have originated in the Pacific North West region of the United States. From that point, there is little question as to what happened next. The clone was obtained by Nevil Schoenmaker, subsequently bred by him and offered to millions of people around the world through his mail order cannabis seed business, known as "The Seed Bank."
Below is an ad from the 1985 "The Seed Bank" catalog, which is among the oldest, if not the oldest sourced material on the strain.
Other than the catalogs from "The Seed Bank" where Northern Lights was originally offered, information on these varieties is scarce besides grow reports and hearsay. One must also take into account the level of breeding the line underwent once it reached Nevil's grow room, where it was subsequently hybridized and worked extensively for many years by Nevil himself. Referring back to the 1990 "The Seed Bank" catalog, it is easy to see just how much work Nevil himself had put into this line.
In between the 1985 and 1990 catalogs, a great deal of hybrids were made with various versions of Northern Lights. In the process, this line became one of the most famous varieties of cannabis in the entire world. There is absolutely no question what role Nevil played in Northern Lights becoming a pillar in the breeding industry and a legend in cannabis circles all over the globe. The man who would later be known as the original "King of Cannabis" sparked an entire industry, a great deal of whom are using Nevil's original stock to set the foundation of their own business's today. He is without question, one of the most important figures in the history of cannabis breeding.
So after establishing a loose foundation of facts, which are hardly in dispute, without further a due, lets take a look at some of the recent comments made by Sensi Seed Administration in regards to the article on Northern Lights.
Fair warning: I'm going to remove the chunk of text at the top of this thread because the hyperbolic tone and the many inaccuracies nullify its informational value.
For a company who was given their just desserts within the article, to see such a hostile attack upon the work presented honestly makes me wonder just how threatened your company feel's with the release of Mr. Nice Seed Northern Lights hybrids. As for the "many inaccuracies," we're going to examine just how inaccurate any statement made within the article truly is.
Originally posted by an ad
Sam the Skunk Man claiming the Original Haze was a Mexican x Colombian variety, with Thai and south Indian lines added later in the Hazes development and the Mr. Nice Camp, who possess the earliest known examples of Haze in the world,
Originally posted by Sensi Seed Admin
Yep. Sure. Older than the breeder who brought Haze to Europe and older than the breeders who have worked with those genetics since those times.
Interesting is the fact the first point of contention made is not even regards to Northern Lights, but rather the variety known as Haze. A glimpse into the ultimate position that will play itself by the Sensi Seed administration, their goal is simply to attack Mr. Nice Seeds, rather than myself. As Shantibaba himself is now famous for saying, "The proof is in the seed." And without question, the Haze varieties at Mr. Nice Seed Bank including Super Silver Haze, Mango Haze and the aptly named Nevilles Haze are the finest haze varieties on the market today. With Super Silver Haze taking a hat trick in the mid to late '90s with the High Times Cannabis Cup. A variety which is made from hybrids of haze varieties which have origins from 1969, seed collected by Nevil himself from within the United States. Not from lines received from Sam Skunkman, who is also said to have brought Haze to Holland as well, though his lines of haze date from the early 1970's.
Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
“
greenpenguin,
I have not worked Original Haze as much as tried to save it, I collected as much seed as I could in the early 70's grew them and did free pollinations and did minimal selection to ensure I saved as many genes as I could. That was in the 70's & 80's now I have clones for the last 20 years. My O Haze is not done being worked on that is why I tell people to use it as breeding materials.
-SamS ”
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=8
And of course the MNS Haze lines dating to the late 1960's.
Originally posted by Shantibaba
Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969
Point of contention #1 from the Sensi Seed Administration busted.
Considering this is quite off topic, but rather stands as a mediocre attempt to flame a well respected company within the industry I will invite any who are interested to read all about the true "Origins of Haze" for themselves.
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=1606
Some more information to consider before we move on to bust yet, another point of contention from Sensi Seed Administration.
Mr Nice Seedbank: Shantibaba explains what happened when a Welshman, two Australian cannabis breeders, and the best selection of old and new world cannabis varieties shared a small room.
Howard Marks (Mr Nice) and I (Shantibaba) met during the late 1990's while I was living and working in Holland. A few years previously (1995), I had set up the Greenhouse Seed Company. Coincidentally, at the same time, Howard was released from a lengthy imprisonment in the USA. During the next few years, we became very good friends and with the success of my breeding work and help from Neville Schoenmaker (the father of Dutch Seed banks), Howard and I discussed the possibility of working together. We decided to start a seed company to help growers throughout the world. Neville and I were already working together on various seed projects, growing and supplying certain strains to coffee shops as well as changing the uses and perceptions of cannabis.
http://www.mrnice.nl/dhtml/history.php
Originally posted by an ad
The Northern Lights #5 pedigree actually consists of Northern Lights #1 x Northern Lights #1
Originally posted by Sensi Seed Admin
Never heard this claim before. Somewhere between 'highly dubious' and 'patently false'.
A bit of research would yield the source of the information presented, which just happens to be among the most respected minds in cannabis today.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=1137196
Point of contention from Sensi Seed Administration number two busted.
Originally posted by an ad
with seed stock from 1988 where the #5 cutting originated
Originally posted by Sensi Admin
NL#5 hybrids are offered in the 1987 TSB catalogue.
Below is the 1987 "The Seed Bank" catalog, in which the date of publication is listed as March, 1987. This catalog would have been good through 1988, however the possibility of information outside of either of our realm(s) of knowledge exist.
Originally posted by an ad
Quite possibly the finest collection of Cannabis minds ever assembled, Mr. Nice seeds offers’ possibly the finest selection of cannabis genetics in the world today ... recently crowned lines of divine and royal descent
Originally posted by Sensi Seed Admin
Hmmm, that sounds like neutral reporting of facts. Possibly.
You actually want to talk about neutral reporting of facts, when thus far your attack upon my work and Mr. Nice Seeds has been effectively shot out of the sky? The importance Nevil Schoenmaker has had on the entire industry is without question, and Shantibaba himself has developed some of the most famous lines of cannabis of modern times. Sensi Seed bank themselves uses quite a few lines which are directly related to lines originally created by both of these individuals. So for your company to question the role these men have played in the cannabis industry is akin to shooting yourselves in the foot. Impressive.
Originally posted by an ad
It is these very same Northern Lights varieties that were released all those years ago, which literally became famous world wide that Shantibaba at Mr. Nice seeds has exclusive access too, with the Northern Lights 5a still being in possession of the MNS team and future Northern Lights releases looming in the future. There for my friends, there is truly hope in the world after all
Originally posted by Sensi Seed Administration
Anyone want to buy a bridge?
At this point Mr. Administration, it appears as if you're in fact living underneath that bridge. No thank you.
Below is remarkable quote from Sensi Seeds, in which they contradict themselves within their own statement. How exactly do you criticize somebody for quoting "advertising material" and then yourself, proceed to quote from advertising material? lol
Originally posted by outlaw grower
the original nl that everybody wanted bred by Nevil at Seed bank
Originally posted by Sensi Seed Administration
Actual research(instead of quoting advertising material) should have revealed the fact that the 'original NL bred by Nevil' covers quite a bit of ground. The follwing are taken from 3 TSB catalogues:
Cannabis Indica 'Northern Lights'
Northern Lights "9" x Skunk "1" F1 Hybrid
Northern Lights x Afghani "1" F1 Hybrid
Northern Lights #132A
Northern Lights #2
Northern Lights 1
Northern Lights 5 x Northern Lights 2
Northern Lights 5 x SK1 F-1 Hybrid
Northern Lights Mix
Haze x Northern Lights F-1 Hybrid
Northern Lights #1
Northern Lights #2
Northern Lights 5 x 2
Northern Lights 5 x Skunk #1 F-1 Hybrid
Hash Plant x Northern Lights #1 F-1 Hybrid
Hashplant/Northern Lights #1 x Swazi
Northern Lights #1 F-3
Northern Lights #2 F-3
Northern Lights #5 x Haze F-1 Hybrid
Northern Lights #5 x Skunk #1 F-1 Hybrid
Northern Lights 5 x 2 F-1 Hybrid
The original names have been used above, and in the first catalogues the nomenclature hadn't been standardised. So "Northern Lights 1" is almost certainly the same plant as "Northern Lights #1", but I've reproduced all the names, just to be on the safe side.
A nice list, but hardly comprehensive. For starters you have left out the Northern Lights x G13 hybrids, and thats just from a quick glance.
Originally posted by Sensi Seed Administration
Basically, you can try to draw your own conclusions from the various claims, or you can take the word of one source or another. Only one company has actually been trading seeds for 25 years, and that's Sensi.
That is one thing we can agree on, that we are all free to come to our own conclusions. Interestingly enough however, what appears to be the main question posed in the thread at the Sensi Seed forums was never addressed (lol), which was whether or not the Northern Lights variety currently offered by Sensi Seeds is in fact the same as it was during the late 1980's, as is claimed by the very same Sensi Seed Administration.
Originally posted by Sensi Seed Administration
Sensi knows.
In fact, it's only the preservation of the original individuals used for breeding that allows many hybrid strains to remain the same over so many years.
Using new parents regularly would lead to regular changes in the makeup of a strain, and therefore different strains.
The funny thing about your comment is that most growers interested in breeding and heritage are keen to know that the parents of hybrids are still the same as they were originally.
http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6541
A quick glance at their current strain description indicates that it is indeed,
NOT the original Northern Lights offered by Nevil in the mid to late 1980's at "The Seed Bank."
An absolute must for the indoor grower! For many years the Northern Lights® dominated the various Harvest Festivals. Through selective breeding we have succeeded in producing one of the most powerful plants in the world. On top of that, we have developed a pure Indica strain highly adapted for indoor growing: compact, powerful with a good yield and exceptional resin production. A most lucrative plant for the indoor grower.
(Note: According to Jorge he was actually with Nevil when they obtained Northern Lights)
