Breeding techniques
- Thread starter Nevil
- Start date
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stonesplitter
New member
Leave landraces alone !
Hear! Hear! Agreed Tsunami, Stockton Slap and Budkeeper!! Has GHS been doing that? Fuckin fem seed shit , Pollution!!!
3 polyhybrids making fresh buds at 5 wks 12/12 sweet citrus with hints of fuel. From Regular Seed that will never be introduced to a tradional cannabis producing area!!
Hear! Hear! Agreed Tsunami, Stockton Slap and Budkeeper!! Has GHS been doing that? Fuckin fem seed shit , Pollution!!!
3 polyhybrids making fresh buds at 5 wks 12/12 sweet citrus with hints of fuel. From Regular Seed that will never be introduced to a tradional cannabis producing area!!
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i heard of many individuals who took hybrides to india, thailand and the philippines for incrising resin production yields...i will not besuprised if such actions took place in marocco, lebanon, nepal and other destinations...
regarding GHS- i found a letter writen by arijan himself stating he is bringing feminised seeds to poor countries as an act of charity...well as i see it he is in a catch...
if he does it for act of charity, rather than greed, than it means he doesnt know a got damn thing about genetics- becouse if he would, he would understand it hurts them in the long run...actually that it hearts all of us in the long run- i mean humanity- and that includes him... nature doesnt need cannabis- but we do!!!
it took many years of evolution to create that certain variation, but if we will fuck it up it will be narrowed down in no time- and this is not limited to cannabis, but to wheat, rice, corn etc.
regarding GHS- i found a letter writen by arijan himself stating he is bringing feminised seeds to poor countries as an act of charity...well as i see it he is in a catch...
if he does it for act of charity, rather than greed, than it means he doesnt know a got damn thing about genetics- becouse if he would, he would understand it hurts them in the long run...actually that it hearts all of us in the long run- i mean humanity- and that includes him... nature doesnt need cannabis- but we do!!!
it took many years of evolution to create that certain variation, but if we will fuck it up it will be narrowed down in no time- and this is not limited to cannabis, but to wheat, rice, corn etc.
North
New member
:stupid
Sad Nev, had to quit posting due to all the bullshit...same stuff still being argued.
cbdmonster
New member
neville or chimeara
please can one of you tell me this is a proper way to breed?
search for Stable genetics:
Heirloom,landrace,( are F8 hybrids suitable as well?)
begin with 3 different "stable"strains
(selecting parentl stock
I understand I must buy a big amount of seeds to do a proper selection, (about 100+ of each strain)
-I want to categorize the seeds of every strain by looks, sow them in different rows to get a fist hand prediction on the phenotype difference
-Grow them all out, grouping them at fiscal traits,
-stress testing(ligh shock) them to find a true hermie free parents to work with
-Self pollinating the hermie surviving clones to see if there true breed for the desirable traits!
-Cloning the desirable parents,
-testing them on cbd/thc ratios
-And finally select the true breed of desirable traits to work with as Parental stock.
I want to make a "new" CBD rich strain.. And I want to breed towards the 1:1 ratio of CBD/THC
So the Desirable traits will be the presents of only CBD/THC rich plants in the Ratio 1:1
I understand that when crossing a Only CBD parent with a Only THC Parent
Will result in a chemotypical ratio of: 1:2:1 ( CBD-CBD/THC-THC)
(The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa L.)
and I must work with the (50% of the F1 siblings that produce both cbd/thc)
luckily I can get all plants tested on presents of CBD& THC and a ratio prediction in vegetative grown on leaf tissue lab testing and finf the 1:1 ratio male's and female's right away!
Than the big question begins:
should I inbreed or back-cross? ( or a combination of both)
to stabilize the 1:1 ratio in the offspring?
My guess is: if the F1 already gives a 50% of both cbd&thc plants..
I must search in that 50% for a male and a female with the 1:1 ratio ...
Should I cross both to make a F2 (inbreed)?
And take one of the 1:1 siblings to back cross on the F1parant? (with 1:1 ratio) to eliminate the unwanted traits with 50% every back cross..
Makes the outcome 75% cbd/thc
Do this another time to get 87,5%
and again to get 93.75%
And again to get 97% plants with both CBD/THC
But probably CBD/THC in all different ratio's
Not all 1:1
for fixing phenotypical traits we must focus in inbreed instead of back-cross right>?
So a combination of both would be logical?
So between every back-cross a 2 generation inbreed...?
To fix both the chemotype's by back-crossing on the F1 (1:1 pheno)
and fix the phenotype traits by inbreed (on the 1:1 phenotypes)between every backcross.. (4 times back cross means 8 times inbreed.. ?"f8"?)
to make a new strain with 97% 1:1 CBD/THC
( the 4 times back crossing fixes the CBD/THC chemotypes)
(the 8 times inbreed fixes the 1:1 ratio phenotype)
does this make sense?
PLEASE HELP ME OUT!
please can one of you tell me this is a proper way to breed?
search for Stable genetics:
Heirloom,landrace,( are F8 hybrids suitable as well?)
begin with 3 different "stable"strains
(selecting parentl stock
I understand I must buy a big amount of seeds to do a proper selection, (about 100+ of each strain)
-I want to categorize the seeds of every strain by looks, sow them in different rows to get a fist hand prediction on the phenotype difference
-Grow them all out, grouping them at fiscal traits,
-stress testing(ligh shock) them to find a true hermie free parents to work with
-Self pollinating the hermie surviving clones to see if there true breed for the desirable traits!
-Cloning the desirable parents,
-testing them on cbd/thc ratios
-And finally select the true breed of desirable traits to work with as Parental stock.
I want to make a "new" CBD rich strain.. And I want to breed towards the 1:1 ratio of CBD/THC
So the Desirable traits will be the presents of only CBD/THC rich plants in the Ratio 1:1
I understand that when crossing a Only CBD parent with a Only THC Parent
Will result in a chemotypical ratio of: 1:2:1 ( CBD-CBD/THC-THC)
(The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa L.)
and I must work with the (50% of the F1 siblings that produce both cbd/thc)
luckily I can get all plants tested on presents of CBD& THC and a ratio prediction in vegetative grown on leaf tissue lab testing and finf the 1:1 ratio male's and female's right away!
Than the big question begins:
should I inbreed or back-cross? ( or a combination of both)
to stabilize the 1:1 ratio in the offspring?
My guess is: if the F1 already gives a 50% of both cbd&thc plants..
I must search in that 50% for a male and a female with the 1:1 ratio ...
Should I cross both to make a F2 (inbreed)?
And take one of the 1:1 siblings to back cross on the F1parant? (with 1:1 ratio) to eliminate the unwanted traits with 50% every back cross..
Makes the outcome 75% cbd/thc
Do this another time to get 87,5%
and again to get 93.75%
And again to get 97% plants with both CBD/THC
But probably CBD/THC in all different ratio's
Not all 1:1
for fixing phenotypical traits we must focus in inbreed instead of back-cross right>?
So a combination of both would be logical?
So between every back-cross a 2 generation inbreed...?
To fix both the chemotype's by back-crossing on the F1 (1:1 pheno)
and fix the phenotype traits by inbreed (on the 1:1 phenotypes)between every backcross.. (4 times back cross means 8 times inbreed.. ?"f8"?)
to make a new strain with 97% 1:1 CBD/THC
( the 4 times back crossing fixes the CBD/THC chemotypes)
(the 8 times inbreed fixes the 1:1 ratio phenotype)
does this make sense?
PLEASE HELP ME OUT!
Question about Genetics
My question is about preserving good clones.My friend has some good phenotypes that are clone only and when they are flowered outdoors there is maybe 2-3 seeds in all the bud but those seeds are really good.Is this a form of selfing and is it not good else it could be a way for people to make seed from clone only strains.Not sure why it does it think it is a need to carry on or for survival.Would it only contain female genes then and also be feminised.Is it self pollination.The plants are also mutants thanks
My question is about preserving good clones.My friend has some good phenotypes that are clone only and when they are flowered outdoors there is maybe 2-3 seeds in all the bud but those seeds are really good.Is this a form of selfing and is it not good else it could be a way for people to make seed from clone only strains.Not sure why it does it think it is a need to carry on or for survival.Would it only contain female genes then and also be feminised.Is it self pollination.The plants are also mutants thanks
Al Capone
New member
If it is producing pollen it's not a true female and the offspring of that pollen is more likely to breed hermies but out west that's how all them different Girl Scout Cookies came about.
You can keep a mother for a good 20 years I remember seeing a thread were Shanti said he would give the parents a few months of sunlight and it would help restore vigor.
consanguinity
i didn't read this post at all coz there is really a lot of post, just wanted to say that in my point of view in the breeding work, consanguinity must be avoid.
For my personal experience, i have reproduce siblings from plants, for example i have select some satori. From 10 seeds i selected in 2014 one male and one female who had very pleasant smell during vegetative step, when 8 other didn't had any. Female had produce an exceptional amount of buds, and male was aswell very beautiful and full of perfume.
in 2015 i sprouted about 1000 seeds outside in march, from this crossing, i killed all who didn't support well cold, those who was going to tall or too small, and finally i deleted those who didn't had any good smell (refer to Daniel John book technics). After sexing i keeped one male who was strong and very smelly, then finally i fertilized 7 female. After curing, with a tlc home test, i hoard only the seeds from the female with the most high potency.
2016, i had a very good production of similar plants in amazing smelling and potency field, but the yield was a shame, even with the same culture condition. About twice less than with the P1 generation from 2014, with original satori seeds.
I observed the same diminution of yield in a consanguine selection of bubblegum, and as there is not a lot off information about how breeders cross their genetic before to sell them, it's impossible to imagine the percentage of inbreeding of a strain and after which level it make degenerate a trait of the production.... i finally don't use anymore this tool (consanguinity practices) for my personal researchs with plants.
i didn't read this post at all coz there is really a lot of post, just wanted to say that in my point of view in the breeding work, consanguinity must be avoid.
For my personal experience, i have reproduce siblings from plants, for example i have select some satori. From 10 seeds i selected in 2014 one male and one female who had very pleasant smell during vegetative step, when 8 other didn't had any. Female had produce an exceptional amount of buds, and male was aswell very beautiful and full of perfume.
in 2015 i sprouted about 1000 seeds outside in march, from this crossing, i killed all who didn't support well cold, those who was going to tall or too small, and finally i deleted those who didn't had any good smell (refer to Daniel John book technics). After sexing i keeped one male who was strong and very smelly, then finally i fertilized 7 female. After curing, with a tlc home test, i hoard only the seeds from the female with the most high potency.
2016, i had a very good production of similar plants in amazing smelling and potency field, but the yield was a shame, even with the same culture condition. About twice less than with the P1 generation from 2014, with original satori seeds.
I observed the same diminution of yield in a consanguine selection of bubblegum, and as there is not a lot off information about how breeders cross their genetic before to sell them, it's impossible to imagine the percentage of inbreeding of a strain and after which level it make degenerate a trait of the production.... i finally don't use anymore this tool (consanguinity practices) for my personal researchs with plants.
deran
Member
start with selection of seeds, only use the biggest ... throw away the smaller ones 50:50
step before this, when making seeds, only pollinate the main top cola, or only use seeds from up there
after a few generations yield will improve, starting already within 1 generation
------------
same goes for cloning, clone the upper fresh cuts, not some weak spindly lifeless branch from below near the base
step before this, when making seeds, only pollinate the main top cola, or only use seeds from up there
after a few generations yield will improve, starting already within 1 generation
------------
same goes for cloning, clone the upper fresh cuts, not some weak spindly lifeless branch from below near the base
deran
Member
start with selection of seeds, only use the biggest ... throw away the smaller ones 50:50
step before this, when making seeds, only pollinate the main top cola, or only use seeds from up there
after a few generations yield will improve, starting already within 1 generation
------------
same goes for cloning, clone the upper fresh cuts, not some weak spindly lifeless branch from below near the base
step before this, when making seeds, only pollinate the main top cola, or only use seeds from up there
after a few generations yield will improve, starting already within 1 generation
------------
same goes for cloning, clone the upper fresh cuts, not some weak spindly lifeless branch from below near the base
Broseidon
Active member
Should be noted that this is, if working, only useful when breeding towards higher yielding.
Nevil himself said early on in this thread that some of the best bud came from the smallest seeds and that he did focus a while on seed size but found it inconclusive and strain dependent.
Meaning for some strains (I believe he mentioned the NL) it (seed size) had some meaning, especially regarding yield.
But in other lines (Haze) it was actually the other way around or simply had no meaning.
From my personal, very limited, experience, seed size does not seem to hold a lot of meaning or is at least inconclusive.
I did however notice that the Karma White OG seeds I purchased full price were much larger than the freebies I got. The freebies looked like Sativa seeds and the original package ones like indica beans.
Popped 5 of those, I believe 2 big seeds and 3 small.
Only 3 germed, 2 of the big seeds look good and strong, the 1 from small lookes gimpy and shitty.
Think that is just different seed drops and shitty freebies form the tude though.
What I am trying to say is:
I believe trying to take information out of seeds is iffy business and inconclusive at best.
Obviously better than ignoring seeds as an information source altogether of course but I would be careful about how much you base your decisions on seed shape, size, color, etc.
deran
Member
i posted following link already 12 / 13 years ago on different canna forums, it got lost, it got ressurected, and finally found its way to cw
if you dont mind, read the following link :
https://www.cannabis-world.org/vanilla/discussion/327/localized-seed-selection-eciwo
im making my seeds the eciwo way for more than a decade already, what ive found out:
seeds are bigger than any bought seeds
plants are more potent
more vital
yield more
more resistant
seed size is not related to potency imho , but a good "reminder" for stories to tell ppl
1 thing is sure, biggest seeds stay in house for the needs of the straincompany
hf reading
if you dont mind, read the following link :
https://www.cannabis-world.org/vanilla/discussion/327/localized-seed-selection-eciwo
im making my seeds the eciwo way for more than a decade already, what ive found out:
seeds are bigger than any bought seeds
plants are more potent
more vital
yield more
more resistant
seed size is not related to potency imho , but a good "reminder" for stories to tell ppl
1 thing is sure, biggest seeds stay in house for the needs of the straincompany
hf reading
stockman123
Member
todays marijuana
i recently purchased 500 worth of seeed here but unfortunatly none had a dense bud though out the catologe cant compete with the usa strains today live and learn
i recently purchased 500 worth of seeed here but unfortunatly none had a dense bud though out the catologe cant compete with the usa strains today live and learn
blowingupjake
Mothership Connection
Seriously man?
As someone who has previously and is currently running US genetics I am very sceptical....
I've planted a few hand fulls out of the MNS catalog and have had Rock Hard nugs from Nordle, Critical Haze, and two of my Walkabout girls. Not on every plant but definitely in a fair ratio..... I've grown my fair share of dispensary cuts/seeds as well as other EU based breeders and continue to drool over the Mr Nice stuff.
What's your setup?
I find that density/hardness is directly related to temperature and proximity to lamps in my garden.
Jake
As someone who has previously and is currently running US genetics I am very sceptical....
I've planted a few hand fulls out of the MNS catalog and have had Rock Hard nugs from Nordle, Critical Haze, and two of my Walkabout girls. Not on every plant but definitely in a fair ratio..... I've grown my fair share of dispensary cuts/seeds as well as other EU based breeders and continue to drool over the Mr Nice stuff.
What's your setup?
I find that density/hardness is directly related to temperature and proximity to lamps in my garden.
Jake
Broseidon
Active member
What I have noticed is that some strains just "click" with how your setup works and how you grow.
Some are just more suited to you as a person in particular and the environment you provide.
I noticed that the NlSk in my current round don't react too well to my environment and me as a person and don't look nearly as nice as the Critical Mass for example. More deficiencies, much less budding sites, etc. etc.
I treated them both the same and the differences are obvious.
Same in my current round, the Black Widow just seems to click with me and my garden. The other strains, not as much.
Considering this I would say it is possible that he just jives with US genetics and not so much with MRN offerings.
But 500 worth of seeds and not a single satisfying plant?
No offense Bro but that would make you a unicorn.
Nobody here or elsewhere has popped that much MRN gear and not been satisfied. I read reports for months and months before sinking that much into MRN seeds and I wouldn't have done so if I had found a single, verified, report like your statement.
I highly doubt what you say Bro but you and your garden "suiting" US genetics and not MRN genetics is the only explanation I could give and that is a weak one. Even then you should have had at least some good plants considering your investment.
Anyway, I am running canadian genetics vs MRN for the moment and will run Spanish and US genetics vs MRN next round. We shall see but so far, late in flower, it doesn't look like they are on different levels or anything.
Especially yield-wise the MRN strains look far better actually.
Some are just more suited to you as a person in particular and the environment you provide.
I noticed that the NlSk in my current round don't react too well to my environment and me as a person and don't look nearly as nice as the Critical Mass for example. More deficiencies, much less budding sites, etc. etc.
I treated them both the same and the differences are obvious.
Same in my current round, the Black Widow just seems to click with me and my garden. The other strains, not as much.
Considering this I would say it is possible that he just jives with US genetics and not so much with MRN offerings.
But 500 worth of seeds and not a single satisfying plant?
No offense Bro but that would make you a unicorn.
Nobody here or elsewhere has popped that much MRN gear and not been satisfied. I read reports for months and months before sinking that much into MRN seeds and I wouldn't have done so if I had found a single, verified, report like your statement.
I highly doubt what you say Bro but you and your garden "suiting" US genetics and not MRN genetics is the only explanation I could give and that is a weak one. Even then you should have had at least some good plants considering your investment.
Anyway, I am running canadian genetics vs MRN for the moment and will run Spanish and US genetics vs MRN next round. We shall see but so far, late in flower, it doesn't look like they are on different levels or anything.
Especially yield-wise the MRN strains look far better actually.
And a dense bud has to do with what?
As if that should be the number one criteria. Which strains did you actually buy AND GROW with $500?
Don't you just love it when individuals make ignorant, unqualifiable statements? These same individuals have a knack for blaming everything on someone else when oftentimes it is their own skill that is lacking. It is obvious that this person doesn't know what they are talking about and has decided to troll.
Anyone who has taken the time to dial in any MNS plant will reap the rewards and find lots of goodness. Yes I have had my share of cali genetics. Good stuff there too. Many of these polyhybrid feminized plants sport groovy names with some secret magical story attached to them to justify the silly prices. Sure those fems are worth $10-25 a seed. NOT. Sure these are stable plants suitable for breeding. NOT. Sure the high is much better (it better be after what I spent on those seeds)- NOT necessarily. Yes, excellent REDUNDANT Indie doms to be had in cali genetics. I've enjoyed them but haven't kept them other than an SD I've had many years. And yet I haven't found any solid haze products (my pref) that come close to MNS varieties at my price point. No contest- just go to Seedsman, look at the offerings and see who rules the haze market; why it's the breeders who started this whole thing in the first place.
The grass is always greener (pun intended) and someone always has something better... It's all bullshit braddahs. The ones who haven't taken the time to experience Shanti's genetics well, we know who you are.
Cool runnin braddahs
M
As if that should be the number one criteria. Which strains did you actually buy AND GROW with $500?
Don't you just love it when individuals make ignorant, unqualifiable statements? These same individuals have a knack for blaming everything on someone else when oftentimes it is their own skill that is lacking. It is obvious that this person doesn't know what they are talking about and has decided to troll.
Anyone who has taken the time to dial in any MNS plant will reap the rewards and find lots of goodness. Yes I have had my share of cali genetics. Good stuff there too. Many of these polyhybrid feminized plants sport groovy names with some secret magical story attached to them to justify the silly prices. Sure those fems are worth $10-25 a seed. NOT. Sure these are stable plants suitable for breeding. NOT. Sure the high is much better (it better be after what I spent on those seeds)- NOT necessarily. Yes, excellent REDUNDANT Indie doms to be had in cali genetics. I've enjoyed them but haven't kept them other than an SD I've had many years. And yet I haven't found any solid haze products (my pref) that come close to MNS varieties at my price point. No contest- just go to Seedsman, look at the offerings and see who rules the haze market; why it's the breeders who started this whole thing in the first place.
The grass is always greener (pun intended) and someone always has something better... It's all bullshit braddahs. The ones who haven't taken the time to experience Shanti's genetics well, we know who you are.
Cool runnin braddahs
M
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professorjj
New member
"No offense Bro but that would make you a unicorn."
Haha, your killing me Broseidon...
I think we all know he is full of shit.
I have found solid winners in most of the lines I have grown out. In fact my fist run of mns got me addicted it was so good.
Some if the CS colas were so solid they could be used as batons to great effect.
Interesting what you said about the SD musashi, im assuming you meant sour diesel, as the original is sat dominant in structure from what I have seen?
I must have spent a couple of thousand dollars on mns genetics, more than i may ever grow but what I do know is there is a legend or 2 waiting to be found.
Respect
Haha, your killing me Broseidon...
I think we all know he is full of shit.
I have found solid winners in most of the lines I have grown out. In fact my fist run of mns got me addicted it was so good.
Some if the CS colas were so solid they could be used as batons to great effect.
Interesting what you said about the SD musashi, im assuming you meant sour diesel, as the original is sat dominant in structure from what I have seen?
I must have spent a couple of thousand dollars on mns genetics, more than i may ever grow but what I do know is there is a legend or 2 waiting to be found.
Respect