Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

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wasnt there an early sativa stain that was prominent over there at some point ,, kiwi green or something like that ,,
do u think that was an early thai type ??
seems it would fit with the time ....

i had some seed once a long time back ..

im real happy to hear your love of the older stuff ,,
reckin us older blokes know our herb ,, hehe ,

im sure the op does having toked his stuff ,
youll enjoy the nevils haze scrubdog ,
and im sure youll enjoy what comes of this grail project aswell ...
 
Donald Mallard said:
wasnt there an early sativa stain that was prominent over there at some point ,, kiwi green or something like that ,,
do u think that was an early thai type ??
seems it would fit with the time ....

i had some seed once a long time back ..

im real happy to hear your love of the older stuff ,,
reckin us older blokes know our herb ,, hehe ,

im sure the op does having toked his stuff ,
youll enjoy the nevils haze scrubdog ,
and im sure youll enjoy what comes of this grail project aswell ...
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Hi Sativa Lovers..and DM i hope i can view a Thai Sativa i have growing.Hope you enyoy the pics.

The Outdoorian..;):)
 

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Donald

It was "NZ Green" and boy was it rubbish. Mainly because it never ever finished or often didn't even flower at all but nobody knew any better back then and everybody smoked the leaves. Yeah it was Thai or Colombian. That's all there was back then. Nobody understood about Sinsimella. They'd see little preflowers and think it was done and rip it out and smoke it.

Wasn't till Mr Asia came along that everything changed. Until he showed up it was easier to get heroin than weed in NZ. Then once he switched the country on he stopped bringing in killer weed and brought in killer heroin instead and caused an epedemic that brought a generation to it's knees.

The cops still don't understand that you stop the weed flow and you get a spike of meth, coke and smack addicts... or even EXctasy. Mr asia understood it only too well though.

Some of the old hippies like me understood that there must be more to weed than NZ Green and we began to learn all about growing it properly because we wanted that Thai stick "high."

scrubdog
 
scrubdog said:
REFERENCE: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

This is prob my all time fav thread on weed growing. I'm 50 plus and been trying to preserve Haze lines, increase potency in Haze etc... on my own for more years than I can remember.

Busted five times and lost all my genetics five times (as in ALL seed taken by cops). Recently lost everything again (10,000 plus sativa/haze seeds as recorded by the court) in another bust and can't be bothered tracking down all those rare genetics from all over the world anymore. Too old and tired.

I haven't tried Nev Haze though it will probably be my next grow. I was around when Nev made it and didn't want to grow somebody else's creation when all the building blocks were still around. Unfortunately all the building block Haze lines seem dead and buried and only Nev Haze remains.

So putting NH aside... the best weed I've ever smoked bar none was Mr Asia Thai Sticks and best plants I've ever seen were Queensland Thai from same period. In thirty-five years I've never seen anything else like those Queensland plants and I've grown a lot of landrace sativas that hit twenty feet high plus. Back then some nutter in Queensland was growing ACRES of these Thai trees until he got busted.

Those Queensland plants were what turned me on to sativas but I've never seen that strain again. Biggest leaves, fastest growth... just absolutely insane. Biggest seeds I've ever seen by miles. In my ignorance I thought all sativas were like that but never seen one again.

I started chasing Haze plants to look for the Thai strains (either Mr Asia Thai or Queensland Thai) but instead of finding giant trees I kept finding these horrible spindly plants that the Dutch were calling haze plants. WTF!!!!

Over the years I've become more and more disillusioned with the weed scene worldwide. Mexico used to grow square miles of sativa trees. I've seen photos of a 25ft pure Mexican sativa that yielded 15 pound of bud. That isn't unique okay. Mexican pot was all huge trees once and so was Colombian... but Thai was even bigger and more potent.

Where have all these strains gone? I haven't smoked a real trippy sativa for years... at least not what i call trippy. I haven't seen a real Thai tree for twenty years. I've seen huge Thai bushes and I've grown sativas that stretched over twenty feet but they weren't the trees I was looking for. The structure was all wrong.

So I'm sick of trying to recreate from scratch with continual back crossing and working with huge plant numbers (try explaining breeding algorithms to the police) that put me in prison. Prison sucks.

I'm just going to cheat and grow some Neville's haze outdoors and cross it with the few pure sativas I have left (seeds rescued off the floor that had rolled under the fridge) after my last bust.

I agree with Neville... the holy Grail is out there somewhere still and I think it's a huge Thai.... which is what I've always thought.

For the record... the GIANT queensland Thais I saw (and grew a couple myself) looked nothing like any of the Thais I've seen. They looked more like some nepalese or Himalayan plants in structure but even bigger and faster with massive drooping lime green leaves with very pronounced serrations and they quickly develop a trunk rather than a stem and have a very "open" and loose structure compared to the bushy Thais I've seen.

If anybody has this strain please PM me immediately :-)

scrubdog
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you need to look for the dalat strain

dee we dalat, was the guy who brought em into modern inet world, back then when old cannabis world was online, has nothing to do with the new cw forum, went down with overgrow

thats the structure you are looking for, maybe some freaks in here have some pics or screen shots left over from those past days
 
Hi Deran

I've been chasing Dalat for years but all the breeders reckon it is extinct. From memory wasn't it a Vietnam or Cambodian strain some French guy was growing up the Mekong?

I've only ever seen two pix of it and they didn't do it justice because they were under lights and meant to be the very last of the strain then shortly after they got wiped out.

Heard they grow like bamboo which is exactly what a real tropical sativa should grow like. It had to come from somewhere and it is prob still in the hills of SE Asia somewhere?

There used to be old photos on the net but I haven't seen them for years... of soldiers under USA DEA guidance chopping down massive plantations of huge dope trees in Asia and Africa. They looked like bamboo groves.

There also used to be a book called "Weed" (long out of print) about the Mexican cannabis trade. It had photos of valleys miles long just covered in huge cannabis plants as far as the eye could see and photos of baling equipment. They used to make the buds into huge compressed bales bigger than a hay bale.

Not many people these days realise that the original cannabis trade was all pure sativas and Afghani and Paki was looked at with disdain because it shut you down instead of lifting you up. It was the greedy drug cartels moving all the colombian weed that hit on the idea of crossing Affy with Thai so they could get two crops out of a tropical season instead of one.

I smile when I see all these seed breeders claiming recognition as the first to cross a indica and a sativa.... or whatever. It was the big drug cartels that did it first and they were the ones that muddied all the pure landrace genetics.

As for Haze. It was everywhere and there was many genuine variations. The Haze brothers used to cross in a new sativa line every season and then the line would filter through the seed banks. Once upon a time you could buy Haze #1 through Haze #9 and about the only thing they had in common was that they used to grow big and fast and wild and scary.

Most of the Haze lines were completely wrecked by the Dutch when they decided to try and grow a 20 foot pure sativa crossbreed under lights. Yeah whatever. So they selected all the short faster flowering and spindly Haze plants for years and kept dumping out the killer tropical genetics.

The reason I've never grown Neville Haze is because it has NL5 in it and to me that's like WTF??? The whole point of Haze is that it was a long flowering loose budded killer sativa tree. I'm a breeder and I know how damn hard it is to get rid of genetics once they're in a line.

You can say it's only 25% but I hear people going "I selected the NL5 pheno" or "one pheno was really NL5." Okay that's not Haze and neither is any of these spindly plants other breeders are calling Haze. I remember when the Haze lines suddenly went from wild trees to "delicate plants" and I always wondered what the hell happened?

Only Kerala could be called "delicate" and it still grows like stink and can form a trunk. So I'm not really sure what happened. One day there was Haze everywhere and everybody was sick of it and NH was just the new kid on the block. Then suddenly there was no more Haze and NH became the standard. I remember it well.

There's no reason at all why some breeder can't just copy the Haze brothers and build a better pure Haze. I've been trying to do it for years but after five busts and losing all my genetics each time I'm sick of it. My approach was to track down landrace sativas and start crossing the best of them. It's not rocket science but it is hard work.

Neville's Haze is probably as good as it gets in terms of cutting down flowering time while retaining most of the desirable Haze attributes. My personal preference as a breeder though is to not have any indica at all in a line if I can help it. You can get recessive mould genes coming back to bite you and get recessive CBD/CBN spikes later in the line plus shortness genes.

Just my personal preference. I was going to do a NH run but I'm starting to have second thoughts.

I may just go for a malawi X Thai82 X Highland Lao if I can find somewhere safe to do the cross. Don't get me wrong, I totally respect Neville as a breeder in every possible way but as a plant breeder myself I'm reluctant to add somebody else's creation to my mix. It's hard to take credit for a strain if the building block is somebody else's strain that you've pinched and are taking credit for.

Hence my preference for landrace sativas that nobody owns the intellectual property of.


scrubdog

scrubdog
 
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im pretty sure its not extinct, 1st time i heard about dalat was in rosenthals ask ed columne in the year 2001, later on 2003 he (dee we dalat - his handle) did famous grow reports with hundreds of pictures and his writing was also nice to read, not those common grow reports, more like short story books ...

but back to the important details, he did indoor selections of the dalat, and by that, producing hundreds and thousands of seeds, which he gifted to all members who asked on the forum, its just a decade ago ... now the problem is, none of the official breeders would have intrest in that, as the fastest phenos went about 20 weeks, the middle phenos took 30, and those long flowering (2 season) took some 40 weeks, all those seeds are in private stash boxes all over the world, by private home growers, and i mean if some strains or cuts are held for longer than those short 10 years, it must be somewhere, dont loose the faith, the more you chase - the more it gets out of handsight ;)
mark surf (his handle back then) had many and did also a good cross with c99, which got better results in the high department, as dalat to what i understand had 1st to be selected for indoor use by high and not for fast flowering times, and c99 was this missing link in the high, tho he just wanted to short things up, lucky bastard hehe

we r living in a fast consuming time and ppl just dont get it that good things take time, you r right about the fact that once the gen code is overwriten with neg indi info, it stays there for ever, thats life, thats the meaning of life .. expansion of the dna throughout the universe (talking about microbes from the moon or mars) .. we all have one in common, at this "material" stage, which is this amazing double helix .. sorry getting too philosophical .. but thats the result of good sativas, which open your mind, soul and heart .. after the big confrontation of your worst enemy - yourself, a reason why i like especially thos paranoia and fear inducing creeper sativas, any other emotion is just a abstract of fear, and by that you learn , you grow up and rise, i dont want to reflect further as it might lead into the wrong direction ... ;)

and you know very well this story too :) about the french man and his plantation, thats exactly dalat

i like your views on things, especially about haze ! anything today which has only 10% haze in it, is called haze, wtf ? like i order a choco cupcake which has a cherry ontop , its still a choco cupcake and not a bloody cherry lol

genetic interferance started even earlier (archeologically speaking), its the oldest and first global "product" we can date back by pollen analysis, even the famous permafrost özi had seeds when he died in the alps lol

its hard to find pure strains, as you correctly stated bc of money, africa is and would be my first place to start, as those selfproclaimed kings of weed and their amateurous hunter series only document their ignorance and greed, i mean arjan or gyppo "share" "fine" dutch gens and pollute natural strains all over the world, yeah they have the financial power to travell, but the backside is ignorance and strain wipe outs, and we all are left with hybrids from source countries, now some friends of the plant get some hands on some buds with some seeds, and they think they are genuine, they arent to blame, bc it was already polluted, and so my guess would be that afrika is the least polluted continent ...

i myself still wait for the black magic african weed, to get my hands on it, maybe one day .. no one knows :D

reminds me of qoute from trainspotting:

1,000 years from now there will be no guys and no girls, just wankers. Sounds great to me.
Click to expand...

there will be no sativas and no indicas, just crap. sound horrifing to me.
 
yep
the dalat is beautiful
here a lot of of pics from tropical seeds dalat
http://www.cannaweed.com/topic/97225-topic-unique-the-tropical-seeds-co/page__st__40
viet_010.jpg

here
Dalat Bud - C.sativa.ssp.dalatvietnam Marijuana Pictures - 5 photos in this image gallery
C.sativa.ssp.dalatvietnam3cropped.jpg

here
Blueberry and a dalat - Cannabis Culture Forums

895821-H4.jpg


here
Cinderella 99 x Neville's Haze - F2 - Cannabis Culture Forums

1077574-Dltfull.JPG


i will put this one in the thin leaves thread :)
thanks for sharin
mani

ps: this interesting chemo original clone Xdalat male found on google img
images
 
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scrubdog said:
hi Donald mallard

I'm thinking you must be related to Wally Duck.

Haven't been able to get PNG or Indonesian. Very strong killer weed that I haven't tasted for years. I know the plants well. Haven't seen seeds available anywhere for those strains for 20 years which is kind of strange because boat loads of weed have come out of those islands for years and been distributed all over the top of Aussie.

I was told by somebody who should know that a syndicate in the late seventies took Thai seed to that area and contracted villagers to grow plantations to save on taking a certain fishing boat all the way to Thailand all the time.

People talk a lot about Thai Stick but few realise it was never one strain. The older Thai Sticks that came over first were almost black and musty smelling but as time went on they got greener until it was obvious they were fresh wrapped sticks. Potency went way down over the years but even the fresh stuff was still strong... even by today's standards.

I grew a lot of seed from sticks... as did others I know... and it was extremely variable with a lot of different phenotypes. It was the early stuff that knocked your head off. Most smokers say it was laced with opium.

Then again at the same time we got Sumatran Tripping Weed which wasn't laced but still blew your head off. Hard to describe the effect of those old strains but they made you very, very high. Not stoned... trippy high. You wanted to do stuff because everything you did was somehow "altered". Driving a car was like an expedition to Mars.

Oldtimers will know what I'm talking about.

scrubdog
Click to expand...

just sorted a nice fat bag of png gold seed this morning ,,
looks like thai seed actually ,
small to medium , no stripes , a little darker than the thai seeds though ,
keen to toss some in the ground and see what comes of them ....
 
Hi Donald

I'm wishing to see that PNG growing in your orchard!

I remember a strain of hemp from China, Cannabis gigantea or Cannabis chinensis. It is suposedly a giant plant, with huge seeds, and very large fan leaves.

I found this video and the plants are like bamboo, without branching because they are grown crowded. I cannot see really huge leaves, but may be because the biggest leaves are lost as they are in the lower portion of the stalk.

The Hemp Fields of China - YouTube

Perhaps that lost gigantic Thais were related with this strain. As far as I know this strain is now grown for its fiber, and in recent times fiber strains are breed in order to avoid high THC levels.

Dr. Ivan Bocsa developed a Chinese hybrid, Kompolti Hybrid TC, and he says that it is not allowed to grow in EU because it has too much THC (I'm not sure what means too much speaking about hemp).

Interview

This is a Hungarian hemp strain, Kompolti. Actually tall trees, but barely branched.

http://health-a.com/kompolti stalks.jpg.jpg

Hi Scrubdog

I have seeds of a Sumatran strain. I don't know if they are related to the Sumatran Tripping Weed. I think they are highly inbreed because the germination rate is very low since I got the first seeds and it is very oidium prone.

I am not sure if it is good because I have smoke it only twice. The first time it was really great sativa trippy high, but a few months later the same buds lost its potency. The taste was terrible twice.

A friend told me that the lost of potency was because I take that buds very early due to the plants were attacked by the oidium. So I must test that strain again before to say that is really good or not worth.

Best regards.
 
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Nice clip ahortator ,
they really resemble bamboo the way they grow ,
make a nice canopy too ..
i can see the leaf isnt skinny like the thai leaf though ,,
seems quite large to be able to make it out 30 ft into the air ...

some real cool info there man ,, thanks for sharing ...
 
hemp for fiber is bred to produce very little bud

seed hemp produces significant quantities of cannabinoids.
 
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