The origins of Haze

  • Thread starter Thread starter JessE
  • Start date Start date
Yeah... Well whatever Nevil put in that NL5hz it was some of the all time bomb, And when it hit Santa Cruz, folks were flipping out. The same old cat that eventually told me purple haze shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as my Holland Haze, initially accused me of lacing it with angel dust. Keep in mind that this is a guy who used to do angel dust like it was water.

I have smoked a lot of shit. But in my life I have only smoked a couple of things that could be mentioned in the same sentence as the Haze I had from the Seedbank.

Well, you probably know that Corralitos is in Santa Cruz and that is where Sam lived, his bust in the early 80s was is Santa Cruz.

Nevil found a couple of males that proved to be exceptional, nothing unusual in that, same thing happened when he found the NL5 cutting.

I'm sure there are lots of sats out there that can match Haze's power, I've smoked Mexican in Mexico that was insane, I spent the night awake afraid alligators were coming to get me...

Point being, Haze just happens to be the Cali sat that made it to Holland and into the hands of the guy who would spread it worldwide, thank Sam for that. Remember that Nevil only began collecting seed seriously in the early 80s, that was a bit too late in many ways, he couldn't just hop on a place to Thailand and grab amazing Thai genes or fly to Bogota to score the finest lumbos, if it had been a decade earlier, he could have done just that and wouldn't have needed Haze.

Cruz of the matter is simply that the only fragments of the great Thais and Colombians of the past that Nev was able to obtain at that time were in the form of those Haze beans from Sam, if only he had known that back home in Oz they had a bunch of things he could have used instead, Shanti proved that when he used Mullumbimby Madness to make La Nina, for years everyone thought La Nina was a Haze variant, so that kinda proves Mullumbimby matches up to Haze.

Nevil didn't have a time machine so couldn't go back to the days before Nixon and The War On Drugs, instead he had to rely on a courier bringing fragmets of the past to him and making him pay a high price for them in both financial terms and the accompanying long-lasting controversy...

Take a look at what was around before Nixon and ask yourself seriously if Haze would still be so significant in the grand scheme of things if all the greats of the past had survived.

Off the top of my head I can think of dozens of lost strains I'd rather have than Haze, both to breed with and smoke, for instance, I'd love some of the Sonoran Desert grass that the Yaqui Indians of Pancho Villa's Army smoked, it made them so crazy they charged machine gunes fearlessly, or how about some of the legendary Zacatecas Purple once cultivated by the indians of a remote central Mexican valley? I'd kill for a bright green pine and gasoline smelling Highland Oaxacan, a rich chocolately lowland Colombian, a woodsy incensey Highland Colombian Gold, a spiritual, uplifting Highland Nepalese, a long season Jamaican or a psychedelic Ethiopian Highland as favoured by Heilie Seilassie, even in Europe there were legendary sativas like the Greek Kalamatan...

So much has gone, and it was destroyed 30 years ago, already by the time Nevil started breeding in Holland, so much was lost, in 76-78 amazing quality Mexican weed was everywhere, by 1980 it was gone forever, cut down by the Army or sprayed with Paraquat, that was why the cartels sank millions into setting up state-of-the-art irrigated farms in the Sonora desert, all their famrs had been destroyed and the only place left to hide their marijuana fields was to build them in the middle of a barren desert where it was impossible to grow marijuana without using a lot of technology. These high-tech farms were bust, the cartels were furious, the DEA agent responsible, 'Quique' Camarena was murdered and the US went mad, hunting down the cartel leaders, google it, it was the biggest bust in DEA history upto that point...

That was why Haze was worth the large sum of money Nevil paid Sam for it - it was a surviving fragment of what had been lost.

Without Nixon and The War On Drugs, Sam Skunkman and Haze would matter not one jot and we would still have a cornucopia of varieties as good as Haze...

That's the cue for the conspiracy nuts to get going, I'm off to smoke a fat cocktail of colombian, ssh, purple thai and bho before hitting the sack...
 

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Hempy

It doesnt matter who it was from it was a LIE ,it was untrue an you stood by it an argued with Sams and faught with many over the issue .Than acted feminine by feelin offended wen he spoke about your use of grammar ;)

British hempire

There is nothing you can say ,Your someone that should be avoided in this commmunity .I never asked you for a damn thing ,An i seen a Redflag wen you someone who has continuosly disrespected me ask me if i want a gifted why would i give you a safe addy .I asked you with what intention would you extend yourself wit no response ,YOU ARE TROUBLE. I have lumbo stock from the 70's ill pass on your BSC CG, luiz took my money n didnt make good on it soo id rather not grow out his stock .


Remeber this you , Jesse n hempy together know less about the origins than myself ,I stand by anything ive ever posted .Shortly You all will be surprised n look like the fools you are that this incense lover has found out the truth .


KASH

im curious to know what differene you refer to ,the post you call original is the same as the current post on the provenance of the original poster

Bigherb,
I know that you're a very young man, simply based off the way you carry yourself on these boards. You would be much better suited to be the kid actually growing haze, like a mad man, than to be the guy who sits on the internet all day pretending to be a haze expert. This is some of the most honest and straight forward advice anyone is going to give you on these boards. And I hope you listen.

Before this board enjoyed the new found popularity that it does today, there were a small group of us here at MNS who regularly discussed haze. Sometimes heated, but we all have a mutual respect for each others passion in keeping it real. Those members include Hempy and L33t, members who have spent a great deal of time passionately viewing the information and attempting to make sense of it all. Some members got more than their fair share of these discussions, and its left a lasting impression on others apparently as well.

Some of these impressionable members want to make a name for themselves in relation to this topic, however go about it in very strange ways. Ive seen extraordinary claims about varieties growing in parts of the United States impossible without precautionary measures, attacks on members who have spent a great deal of time making sure this topic and the facts surrounding it do not fall on deaf ears etc. With little understanding or appreciation for how we've arrived at where we stand today.

As Shantibaba recently posted, he worked closely with Nevil for many years. In that time, they grew to know each other naturally and many stories were exchanged. If some of you are attempting to make Shantibaba out to be a liar, based off information he received from Nevil that is now seemingly different, you've got one problem. The information you're using against Shantibaba also originated from Nevil. So you're picking which version suits your cause, or you're here purposely stirring shit to further cause a rift within the community. Is this how you plan to make your name Bigherb, at the expense of Shantibaba and Nevil? Hempy? Myself? Anyone who doesnt give you exactly what you want, as you so often demand from members on this board?

Just remember everyone you've stepped on when you reach the top Bigherb. We'll let you know what the weather is like down here at ground level.
 
Well, you probably know that Corralitos is in Santa Cruz and that is where Sam lived, his bust in the early 80s was is Santa Cruz.

Nevil found a couple of males that proved to be exceptional, nothing unusual in that, same thing happened when he found the NL5 cutting.

I'm sure there are lots of sats out there that can match Haze's power, I've smoked Mexican in Mexico that was insane, I spent the night awake afraid alligators were coming to get me...

Point being, Haze just happens to be the Cali sat that made it to Holland and into the hands of the guy who would spread it worldwide, thank Sam for that. Remember that Nevil only began collecting seed seriously in the early 80s, that was a bit too late in many ways, he couldn't just hop on a place to Thailand and grab amazing Thai genes or fly to Bogota to score the finest lumbos, if it had been a decade earlier, he could have done just that and wouldn't have needed Haze.

Cruz of the matter is simply that the only fragments of the great Thais and Colombians of the past that Nev was able to obtain at that time were in the form of those Haze beans from Sam, if only he had known that back home in Oz they had a bunch of things he could have used instead, Shanti proved that when he used Mullumbimby Madness to make La Nina, for years everyone thought La Nina was a Haze variant, so that kinda proves Mullumbimby matches up to Haze.

Nevil didn't have a time machine so couldn't go back to the days before Nixon and The War On Drugs, instead he had to rely on a courier bringing fragmets of the past to him and making him pay a high price for them in both financial terms and the accompanying long-lasting controversy...

Take a look at what was around before Nixon and ask yourself seriously if Haze would still be so significant in the grand scheme of things if all the greats of the past had survived.

Off the top of my head I can think of dozens of lost strains I'd rather have than Haze, both to breed with and smoke, for instance, I'd love some of the Sonoran Desert grass that the Yaqui Indians of Pancho Villa's Army smoked, it made them so crazy they charged machine gunes fearlessly, or how about some of the legendary Zacatecas Purple once cultivated by the indians of a remote central Mexican valley? I'd kill for a bright green pine and gasoline smelling Highland Oaxacan, a rich chocolately lowland Colombian, a woodsy incensey Highland Colombian Gold, a spiritual, uplifting Highland Nepalese, a long season Jamaican or a psychedelic Ethiopian Highland as favoured by Heilie Seilassie, even in Europe there were legendary sativas like the Greek Kalamatan...

So much has gone, and it was destroyed 30 years ago, already by the time Nevil started breeding in Holland, so much was lost, in 76-78 amazing quality Mexican weed was everywhere, by 1980 it was gone forever, cut down by the Army or sprayed with Paraquat, that was why the cartels sank millions into setting up state-of-the-art irrigated farms in the Sonora desert, all their famrs had been destroyed and the only place left to hide their marijuana fields was to build them in the middle of a barren desert where it was impossible to grow marijuana without using a lot of technology. These high-tech farms were bust, the cartels were furious, the DEA agent responsible, 'Quique' Camarena was murdered and the US went mad, hunting down the cartel leaders, google it, it was the biggest bust in DEA history upto that point...

That was why Haze was worth the large sum of money Nevil paid Sam for it - it was a surviving fragment of what had been lost.

Without Nixon and The War On Drugs, Sam Skunkman and Haze would matter not one jot and we would still have a cornucopia of varieties as good as Haze...

That's the cue for the conspiracy nuts to get going, I'm off to smoke a fat cocktail of colombian, ssh, purple thai and bho before hitting the sack...

LOVE this post. A real nice explanation of some things.

I would like to share something else that may help strengthen your position on this somewhat.

Let's see...I'm just about 50 (groans). Started smoking around '74 and the beans that were lost was do also to us old hippies/freaks.
Weed had seeds and that was the biggest annoyance of buying it. We'd get out a record album or shoebox lid and clean it. For myself, I would put them into a black 35mm canister that film came in and then eventually into a big metal coffee can. (Hey! we had to save the seeds to 're-clean' in hopes of getting a bowl to smoke in dry times). After a while where did those seeds wind up? 99% of them went into the trash. We didn't care about growing or breeding. Sure we'd try to put a few plants in the woods to grow, but for the most part the seeds in our eyes at the time were nothing we wanted anything to do with. Besides they always seemed to pop and land on your new concert t-shirt burning those little holes into them. :(

This was the mid 70's. The motto sex, drugs and rock and roll was very real. What we had on our minds were:
1. riding our mini bikes and Go Carts if we were not old enough to drive.
2. working on our cars and then cruising all hours of the day and night. Getting into a few races at stoplights and so forth.
3. scoring some smoke and finding some one cool at the liquor store to buy us some alcohol.
4. trying to find some female 'companionship'
5. and of course going to see people like Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush, Robin Trower, Blue Oyster Cult, Rush, Kiss and others in concert.

It was a great time to be alive and a teenager. And I shudder now days at the thought at all the genetics that wound up in some landfill because of our stupidity as well.

Sam and a few others saw something and saved what they could by growing and breeding. But for the most part, folks who were on that level were EXTREMELY RARE, at least here in the DC metro region.
The younger generation needs to understand that the level of growing that takes place today was in it's bare bones infancy then. It was a totally different era and mind set.
 
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Bigherb,
I know that you're a very young man, simply based off the way you carry yourself on these boards. You would be much better suited to be the kid actually growing haze, like a mad man, than to be the guy who sits on the internet all day pretending to be a haze expert. This is some of the most honest and straight forward advice anyone is going to give you on these boards. And I hope you listen.

Before this board enjoyed the new found popularity that it does today, there were a small group of us here at MNS who regularly discussed haze. Sometimes heated, but we all have a mutual respect for each others passion in keeping it real. Those members include Hempy and L33t, members who have spent a great deal of time passionately viewing the information and attempting to make sense of it all. Some members got more than their fair share of these discussions, and its left a lasting impression on others apparently as well.

Some of these impressionable members want to make a name for themselves in relation to this topic, however go about it in very strange ways. Ive seen extraordinary claims about varieties growing in parts of the United States impossible without precautionary measures, attacks on members who have spent a great deal of time making sure this topic and the facts surrounding it do not fall on deaf ears etc. With little understanding or appreciation for how we've arrived at where we stand today.

As Shantibaba recently posted, he worked closely with Nevil for many years. In that time, they grew to know each other naturally and many stories were exchanged. If some of you are attempting to make Shantibaba out to be a liar, based off information he received from Nevil that is now seemingly different, you've got one problem. The information you're using against Shantibaba also originated from Nevil. So you're picking which version suits your cause, or you're here purposely stirring shit to further cause a rift within the community. Is this how you plan to make your name Bigherb, at the expense of Shantibaba and Nevil? Hempy? Myself? Anyone who doesnt give you exactly what you want, as you so often demand from members on this board?

Just remember everyone you've stepped on when you reach the top Bigherb. We'll let you know what the weather is like down here at ground level.

I wish some of you seen me for who I am but honestly I could care less what you think of me

When I first came here it was exciting havin these discussions an I actually enjoyed certain post from afew of you ,this was B4 I really knew anything,IMO you an shemp hav contributed nothing of value to me .L33T is someone I respect soo much.I Call him unc I seek advise from ,why is it me n him never had any issues anyhow I wouldn't put His name in a sentence with either of u 3 .

I call it how it is ,Really u 3 are nobodies as I've said B4 some of u think to highly of Yourself Ur both dogs soo there are no toes to step on.I neva intended to disrespect shanti nor nevil soo don't twist my words.If anyone has any issues I invite you to pm me .This thread shouldn't be full of this BS

My intention is Clear to many but a select few ive been reassured my many in pm ,I've had convo wit shanti were good .You'll one day see .I have always been a man of my word You'll see
 
Dope is probably the only commodity that has steadily increased in domestic production and decreased in imports over the past 30 years, its crazy.



I like what BH had to say its the sad truth. Although Neville used to offer a lot of different Sativa genetics but now they are all locked up in the vault or lost I guess. I wish I could get my hands on the hawaiian Neville mentioned that was so clear headed people used to less functional stones were complaining that they weren't "high"

Also the Durban, wish there was a truly potent Durban out there and would also like to see it crossed to the "new" hazeAC male, widow/La Nina/Shark and critical mass.
 
The message you have entered is too short Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.
 
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You don't know that and neither does anyone else, the constituents of Haze are unknown and it's only a guess that's it's Thai and Colombian, it's probably got at least one Mexican in there, we don't even know if Sam's version was a hybrid or not, it's all speculation.

As for weed coming in branded packaging, it was very common in Cali in the 60s and 70s to package your produce, the BOEL shipped weed from Hawaii in vacuum sealed foil packahes with a printed dragon logo on them and a lot of the communes sold weed in printed sacks, there are also countless printed labels in existence that were originally attached to packages of weed, many people collect them.

some firms still do to this day, more often than not when iv recived large shipments from holland youl find a logo on the packs, some time to demonstrate the level of quality, as im sure most are aware you get 3 levels of quality frm the holland crews and sometimes just to indicate what firm sent the shipment.. so iv been told! LOL
 
Haze

You don't know that and neither does anyone else, the constituents of Haze are unknown and it's only a guess that's it's Thai and Colombian, it's probably got at least one Mexican in there, we don't even know if Sam's version was a hybrid or not, it's all speculation.

As for weed coming in branded packaging, it was very common in Cali in the 60s and 70s to package your produce, the BOEL shipped weed from Hawaii in vacuum sealed foil packahes with a printed dragon logo on them and a lot of the communes sold weed in printed sacks, there are also countless printed labels in existence that were originally attached to packages of weed, many people collect them.

Reeferman created his own version of the haze he dubs"accidental haze". Comepletly seperate of any haze line before. It is a Columbian punta roja x Mexican. So lets all put it to rest, obtain some mex and columbians and we can start passing results.
 
...Off the top of my head I can think of dozens of lost strains I'd rather have than Haze...

Well, I don't know... If I was stuck on a desert island with just one strain... It would have to be Seedbank Haze(the one I had).

To each their own...

I have only smoked one thing more potent, and that was a malawi sourced in SA, but as an everyday smoke, the quality just can't compare... They are different, but the haze...


What perfect refinement. What perfection...
 
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Hey All,

For what it's worth I have never smoked "haze" but everything I have read here and elsewhere and the pics I have seen lead me to believe that today's haze exhibits little difference to the Thai I have been smoking here in Thailand for the last 20 years. I am desperate to find and grow great nonThai or nonHaze seeds.

Be Well, P77
 
The stock Nevil received was haze hybrids from SAMS such as those haze hybrids from 81 ,Burning bush ,new years haze ETC
1luvbigherb

If the Hz used by Nev for his hybrids was really coming from Hz seeds that Sam had made in 1981 why the hell has Sam claimed when he came online, back in the CW & OG days, that it was only a single female Hz cutting that Nev got thru his intermediary...it makes no sense...:confused:

Knowing a bit the character I would have rather believed he would have been the first to brag about being the one who made the seeds used by Nev for his award winning Hz hybrids....but he didn't...

It is only when it was revealed that the Hz parents used by Nev were in fact males that Sam changed his version at Icmag and tried to make us believe he had made a mistake prior to that and that it was in fact a male he had given to Nev....

Why do you think Sam hasn't been able to put on the market a Haze with similar qualities than NH for all those years?

Maybe this quote will help:

R.C. Clarke said:
'Some of the early types were lost but through diligent selection and inbreeding Cultivator's Choice preserved the essence of the variety in their 'Original Haze'.

Like Hempy I strongly believe that the Haze used by Nev come from the union of colombian and thai-stick varieties.

I do not believe at all it contains mexican...but perhaps Sam's version does...

The MM in MNS LN seems just to confirm that.

Maybe Hempy will be able to demonstrate it further by crossing his thai and colombian from the 70s...:D

Peace.

K.
 
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Thai x Colombian would prove nothing, there were so many different types of both...
 
Hey Professor

You close to Udon?
My sister in law is from there.
One of my brothers was stationed there and in Korat as well back in the day.

Stay safe 'brah. I hear the have some nasty drug laws over there.
 
If the Hz used by Nev for his hybrids was really coming from Hz seeds that Sam had made in 1981 why the hell has Sam claimed when he came online, back in the CW & OG days, that it was only a single female Hz cutting that Nev got thru his intermediary...it makes no sense...:confused:

Knowing a bit the character I would have rather believed he would have been the first to brag about being the one who made the seeds used by Nev for his award winning Hz hybrids....but he didn't...

It is only when it was revealed that the Hz parents used by Nev were in fact males that Sam changed his version at Icmag and tried to make us believe he had made a mistake prior to that and that it was in fact a male he had given to Nev....

Why do you think Sam hasn't been able to put on the market a Haze with similar qualities than NH for all those years?

Maybe this quote will help:



Like Hempy I strongly believe that the Haze used by Nev come from the union of colombian and thai-stick varieties.

I do not believe at all it contains mexican...but perhaps Sam's version does...

The MM in MNS LN seems just to confirm that.

Maybe Hempy will be able to demonstrate it further by crossing his thai and colombian from the 70s...:D

Peace.

K.

Kash

Its hard to follow/ believe everything Sams has said because it is all very contradicting .My thoughts are simply from the information presented from both Sides Sams/Nevil

Remember this below

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
Neville did not have any Haze seeds from 1969, I did but I never gave any to him ever for sure

Soo where does that fit in with the Seed stock from 66 - 70


Then there is his quote below ,i think the that may explain the reason that first haze female didnt finish IMO it was a thai haze aka burning bush

What is the 26 weeks about? I have grown Haze a lot, but 26 weeks? WTF??

-SamS

This quote again below has always stood out to me ,the 76 date ,an words he made .He has always said that he helped the haze bros creat the haze not that he created it .Soo IMO this makes it clear that the seed stock Nev recieved was not direct from the Bros but a hybrid Sams made


To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS


Id love to see a haze from SAMS I dont think it will ever happen though ,How would it compare to Nevilles haze i cant say i think there would be similarietes but remember NH is not pure haze ,I can say this the haze Sams said Nevile sold pure was Nevilles haze PERIOD.He told me this , how an why he comes to this conclusion i have no idea .

Ill say this again there will never be another Ohaze you cant produce something that isnt available the imports of yesteryear are soo rare its like they dissapeared .BUt i will say i cant wait to see what those aussies Will Release .



1luvbigherb
 
If the Hz used by Nev for his hybrids was really coming from Hz seeds that Sam had made in 1981 why the hell has Sam claimed when he came online, back in the CW & OG days, that it was only a single female Hz cutting that Nev got thru his intermediary...it makes no sense...:confused:

Knowing a bit the character I would have rather believed he would have been the first to brag about being the one who made the seeds used by Nev for his award winning Hz hybrids....but he didn't...

It is only when it was revealed that the Hz parents used by Nev were in fact males that Sam changed his version at Icmag and tried to make us believe he had made a mistake prior to that and that it was in fact a male he had given to Nev....

Why do you think Sam hasn't been able to put on the market a Haze with similar qualities than NH for all those years?

Hi Kash,
Nice post, some interesting points to consider.

I do not believe at all it contains mexican...but perhaps Sam's version does...

.

It does not seem at all out of the question Mexican sativa varieties could make up the origins of an ultimately unknown sativa variety with origins in California. A hop, skip and a jump from the Mexican border. However, it would seem Shantibaba also has considered the possibility his haze lines are of, at least to some degree, of Mexican descent.


Family of breed: a combination of 25% Skunk, 50%Afghan and 25% Haze-Thai/Columbian/Mexican
ASH (Afg Skunk x Afg Haze) - Mr. Nice seedbank and research - Strains
 
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Proof? I have hear this many times but no-one has give us 1 official document where it is stated this event. No proof you are making it up BH.
Joaquin,
While I certainly could care less if you question British Hempire from here to the moon, the fact remains you're someone who likes to ask a lot of questions, often in a confrontational fashion, while yourself, rarely, if ever, offering anything to the conversation. Any conversation.

Information has been provided in this thread or the others (this issue has been covered extensively) where Sam had obtained a lawyer in hopes of taking care of his past legal issues in California, and was hopping and skipping around questions from the press. There is also the fact VPRO radio broke this story in Holland in the late '90s, and for anyone who would like a copy of the transcript, in which Law Enforcement from Santa Cruz was contacted and interviewed, the information is readily available for those interested. Ive provided that information for you joaquin, however I am willing to bet you've not followed up on any of it have you?

Instead, you would rather be the guy who lets everyone else dig up information for you, while you sit on your ass and do nothing? Seems to be a growing trend with a few of you at this forum anymore. Hell some of you will even troll people over subjects you, yourself, later pick up on and start to post about. Sad to see what has happened to this forum with its influx of refugee's attempting to hop on the MNS band wagon. You cats were nowhere to be found years ago, but once its clear we're headed west, everybody wants a seat on the wagon dont they?
 
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Example 1 is the contact information for VPRO radio in Holland that was provided for you specifically Joaquin years ago now by myself. And you're claiming this information is made up? What you're doing is clouding an already confusing picture for those who are not familiar with the story.

Example 1
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/40289-post151.html

Example 2 is information Ive once again provided from VPRO, summarizing the information from that radio transcript.

Example 2
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...-fertilizer-economic-growth-13.html#post39929

Example 3 is information, that I refer to as the "ikreeger document." Information from Dutch Parliament, discussing the very information you're claiming is made up Joaquin. :rolleyes:

Example 3

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/39928-post124.html
 
JessE,

I have to say in defense of Joaquin that I also fail to see the proof which corroborates the fact that Sam was arrested in California in the 80's...

I do not say it did not happen but there is no proof of that in those documents.

Peace.

K.
 
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