The original G13 s1

Freedom_Fighter said:
So, I listened to this "deep dive" piece twice, which claims Shantibaba received G13 seed from Nevil. The implication seemed to be that is was pure G13 seed, unhybridized. This is new to me, as I had never heard that before, tbh. Is that what Forum members are referring to as the MNS "pure" G13 IBL seed? Or, stated slightly different, was the G13 IBL derived from that seed?

Secondly, this lady seems to be saying on the one hand that G13 was never a "clone only" strain, but on the other hand she says the Original G13 clone died a long time ago, and no form of pure G13 exists today. Is that "direct from Shantibaba"? Sounds a little contradictory the way she states it.

She is claiming that ALL G13 seed today is hybridized; not pure G13. Does MNS agree with her on that point? If she is right about that, then what is the 'G13 S1' if it's not pure G-13?

Regarding another related matter, there is an interesting blog article on The Seedsman Blog, which states the following:

"Upon acquiring the G13 clone, the Seed Bank proceeded with creating a whole battery of G13 f1-hybrids. Some of the more notable creations were G13 x Ortega, G13 x Hashplant, G13 x Northern Lights #2, G13 x Haze and G13 x Skunk#1. Only the G13 x Hashplant is still available in seed form today and can be considered the closest relative to the original plant.

"The G13 Skunk was said to be the best hybrid and Nevil brought it to the attention of Shantibaba at Mr. Nice Seedbank when he left the Seedbank. It was then shelved and forgotten about for some time. After working through alarmingly low germination rates of the 20 year old seed, Shantibaba recently crossed the G13 Skunk that he got from Nevil to some old school Skunk#1 and his already famous Black Widow" ... etc.

The Seedsman is claiming that Neville acquired a G13 clone, only; not pure G13 seed. Does Shantibaba agree with that? Next, The Seedsman claims that the G13 seed that Shantibaba received from Neville was not pure, but hybridized G13 Skunk:

"After working through alarmingly low germination rates of the 20 year old seed," he says, "Shantibaba recently crossed the G13 Skunk that he got from Nevil to some old school Skunk #1." Can anyone verify that?

If The Seedsman is correct about that, then my next question concerns the percentage of G13 in the G13 Skunk currently up for auction? Would that be 25% G13 / 75% SK#1?

Cheers! - FF
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Guys read the begging of this thread it explains all . G13 was only clone never seeds. The ibl is the fem version by stiring the pot and making conclusions it dosnet help .
G13 ibl =g13clone xg13reversed clone 🍊
this I means s1.
There rest is sauce
We have the facts shared here have a great Sunday all.
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
... my next question concerns the percentage of G13 in the G13 Skunk currently up for auction? Would that be 25% G13 / 75% SK#1?
Click to expand...

This question was off-topic, admittedly, but certainly a legitimate one. It's one that I hadn't considered until reading The Seedsman Blog article; but after taking a closer look at the MNS G13 Skunk description, it appears that The Seedsman claim is correct:

Screenshot_20241124_135028_Chrome.jpg

G13 Skunk × Skunk #1. Hard to tell from the description, though, what the approximate G13 percentage is, but it's clear to me that Neville's G13 Skunk must be an IBL, and produce true F1 seed when crossed with the SK#1 IBL. I picked up a pack at the Auction, last Spring, thinking at the time that it was an IBL; but will grab a second pack of it, now knowing a little more about it. I'm interested in seeing the F1 vigor and what the F2 phenoes looks like.

CannaFish said:
There’s a part 2 to the g13 podcast
G13 pt2
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Not sure who JessE is, tbh, but I felt like she was a bit obscure in Part 1, but Part 2 helped to clarify a couple things, for me. I'm pretty sure I've heard Shantibaba talk about Neville's G13 Skunk in an interview, which is where I got the impression it was an IBL. I didn't know, at that time, (probably because I wasn't listening as carefully or closely as I should have been,) that he crossed it to the SK#1 IBL, to create the current F1 version. Live & learn is my life story.

Not trying to "stir the pot," only striving for clarity on lineages, which is important to Shantibaba, as he frequently mentions when criticizing the flood of current poly-hybrids on the market today. - FF
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
This question was off-topic, admittedly, but certainly a legitimate one. It's one that I hadn't considered until reading The Seedsman Blog article; but after taking a closer look at the MNS G13 Skunk description, it appears that The Seedsman claim is correct:

View attachment 95540

G13 Skunk × Skunk #1. Hard to tell from the description, though, what the approximate G13 percentage is, but it's clear to me that Neville's G13 Skunk must be an IBL, and produce true F1 seed when crossed with the SK#1 IBL. I picked up a pack at the Auction, last Spring, thinking at the time that it was an IBL; but will grab a second pack of it, now knowing a little more about it. I'm interested in seeing the F1 vigor and what the F2 phenoes looks like.



Not sure who JessE is, tbh, but I felt like she was a bit obscure in Part 1, but Part 2 helped to clarify a couple things, for me. I'm pretty sure I've heard Shantibaba talk about Neville's G13 Skunk in an interview, which is where I got the impression it was an IBL. I didn't know, at that time, (probably because I wasn't listening as carefully or closely as I should have been,) that he crossed it to the SK#1 IBL, to create the current F1 version. Live & learn is my life story.

Not trying to "stir the pot," only striving for clarity on lineages, which is important to Shantibaba, as he frequently mentions when criticizing the flood of current poly-hybrids on the market today. - FF
Click to expand...
Don’t take my temper personal ether my metaphors .🫡🤠🍊.
Have a nice week ahead
🏴‍☠️🌻🍊
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
... Shantibaba recently crossed the G13 Skunk that he got from Nevil to some old school Skunk#1 and his already famous Black Widow" ... etc.
Click to expand...

In regard to the dominance of G13 in Neville's G13 Skunk, the MNS strain description for the G13 Widow seems to indicate that the Skunk influence in it is negligible, or so little that it's not even mentioned in its "heritage":

Screenshot_20241124_170425_Chrome.jpg

The fact that Skunk isn't included in the Heritage implies that the majority of the Skunk influence was bred out of the cross, through selection and back-crossing to the G13. That seems to indicate that the G13 Skunk F1 seed is roughly 50% G13.

Cheers! - FF
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
This question was off-topic, admittedly, but certainly a legitimate one. It's one that I hadn't considered until reading The Seedsman Blog article; but after taking a closer look at the MNS G13 Skunk description, it appears that The Seedsman claim is correct:

View attachment 95540

G13 Skunk × Skunk #1. Hard to tell from the description, though, what the approximate G13 percentage is, but it's clear to me that Neville's G13 Skunk must be an IBL, and produce true F1 seed when crossed with the SK#1 IBL. I picked up a pack at the Auction, last Spring, thinking at the time that it was an IBL; but will grab a second pack of it, now knowing a little more about it. I'm interested in seeing the F1 vigor and what the F2 phenoes looks like.



Not sure who JessE is, tbh, but I felt like she was a bit obscure in Part 1, but Part 2 helped to clarify a couple things, for me. I'm pretty sure I've heard Shantibaba talk about Neville's G13 Skunk in an interview, which is where I got the impression it was an IBL. I didn't know, at that time, (probably because I wasn't listening as carefully or closely as I should have been,) that he crossed it to the SK#1 IBL, to create the current F1 version. Live & learn is my life story.

Not trying to "stir the pot," only striving for clarity on lineages, which is important to Shantibaba, as he frequently mentions when criticizing the flood of current poly-hybrids on the market today. - FF
Click to expand...
Part 3 is here. This might make more sense. They go deep, deep down the rabbit hole.

G-13 Part 3

200w.gif
 
I seem to remember that MNS had acquired a verified cut of the original G13 from a grower who was retiring. This would be around 5-6 years ago(ish).
Is that not the same plant that was used as the mother in the G13 x AC tester seeds (and others) that some of us grew out a couple of years ago?
TF
 
CannaFish said:
Part 3 is here. This might make more sense. They go deep, deep down the rabbit hole.

G-13 Part 3

200w.gif
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I listened to it, entirely, and half way through a second time; but I didn't get much out of it. Their review of Apollo's G13 S1 thread isn't very helpful, and less than amusing, tbh. In fact, I got the distinct impression they were mocking it; especially PK's musings about the "magnetic" effect of biochar. It's not a theory I've given any thought to, tbh, but I'm not about to mock a fellow grower for experimental ideas and cultivation practices.

Is JessE an actual cultivator? If she is, it doesn't come across, by the way she talks. If she grows, it seems she has never grown G13, or she would talk about the G13 hybrids she's actually grown. Instead she choses to discuss Apollo's G13 grow, not her own. Neither does it sound like she's ever smoked G13, or else she would have focused on her direct, firsthand experience with it; instead of writing off PK's ideas about biochar to being high, or too stoned to think straight.

I would much rather spend 45 minutes listening to a Shantibaba interview than listening to those two. That's just being brutally honest. She makes some good points, I'll giver her that much, but in general, she's not someone I'd spend a lot of time listening to. I don't feel like I learned much by the 60 minutes I spent listening to her/ them. That's 60 minutes I could have spent listening to Shanti, or someone like Jodrey, another Master Grower / Breeder.

 FF
 
It’s not that complicated braddahs. In the beginning:
The g13skunk was given to Shanti by Nev after his g13 clone died so Shanti made a g13skunk ibl.

Then a separate g13 clone was procured soon thereafter. From this clone Shanti made the hybrids g13 x afghan skunk, g13 x widow, g13 x haze. The clone was also used to make G13 fems.

mu
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
Thanks for the link. I listened to it, entirely, and half way through a second time; but I didn't get much out of it. Their review of Apollo's G13 S1 thread isn't very helpful, and less than amusing, tbh. In fact, I got the distinct impression they were mocking it; especially PK's musings about the "magnetic" effect of biochar. It's not a theory I've given any thought to, tbh, but I'm not about to mock a fellow grower for experimental ideas and cultivation practices.

Is JessE an actual cultivator? If she is, it doesn't come across, by the way she talks. If she grows, it seems she has never grown G13, or she would talk about the G13 hybrids she's actually grown. Instead she choses to discuss Apollo's G13 grow, not her own. Neither does it sound like she's ever smoked G13, or else she would have focused on her direct, firsthand experience with it; instead of writing off PK's ideas about biochar to being high, or too stoned to think straight.

I would much rather spend 45 minutes listening to a Shantibaba interview than listening to those two. That's just being brutally honest. She makes some good points, I'll giver her that much, but in general, she's not someone I'd spend a lot of time listening to. I don't feel like I learned much by the 60 minutes I spent listening to her/ them. That's 60 minutes I could have spent listening to Shanti, or someone like Jodrey, another Master Grower / Breeder.

 FF
Click to expand...
Freedom_Fighter said:
In regard to the dominance of G13 in Neville's G13 Skunk, the MNS strain description for the G13 Widow seems to indicate that the Skunk influence in it is negligible, or so little that it's not even mentioned in its "heritage":

View attachment 95549

The fact that Skunk isn't included in the Heritage implies that the majority of the Skunk influence was bred out of the cross, through selection and back-crossing to the G13. That seems to indicate that the G13 Skunk F1 seed is roughly 50% G13.

Cheers! - FF
Click to expand...


So I think this might answer some of your questions FF, all mr nice G13 hybrids are IBLs: https://mrnice.nl/dhtml/strains.php?id=59
 
Is it not possible to keep the original mother plants and not modify or adulterate/dilute them? Is it not possible to make selections from f1’s, f2’s, etc. and thru successive generations of inbreeding make them IBL? I can’t speak for Shanti but as I understand it, many commercial growers/breeders, truth be told, protect the original parents and use several lines of filials to market.

mu
 
musashi said:
Is it not possible to keep the original mother plants and not modify or adulterate/dilute them? Is it not possible to make selections from f1’s, f2’s, etc. and thru successive generations of inbreeding make them IBL? I can’t speak for Shanti but as I understand it, many commercial growers/breeders truth be told protect the original parents and use several lines of filials to market.

mu
Click to expand...
Good point and makes absolute sense .

Yes this what they do unfortunately some . Others dont do it and they share the original lines to people .

I personally Like share the originals if is in regulars or even the s1. Im not a seeds bank but I can call my self a breeder.

What I want to protect I will not relase it pure form and I will share the info. If diluted the pedigree.
breeding is very important for some people and this is what separates seed banks now days .

G13 s1 Is crazy strain no argue.

-Apollo
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
Thanks for the link. I listened to it, entirely, and half way through a second time; but I didn't get much out of it. Their review of Apollo's G13 S1 thread isn't very helpful, and less than amusing, tbh. In fact, I got the distinct impression they were mocking it; especially PK's musings about the "magnetic" effect of biochar. It's not a theory I've given any thought to, tbh, but I'm not about to mock a fellow grower for experimental ideas and cultivation practices.

Is JessE an actual cultivator? If she is, it doesn't come across, by the way she talks. If she grows, it seems she has never grown G13, or she would talk about the G13 hybrids she's actually grown. Instead she choses to discuss Apollo's G13 grow, not her own. Neither does it sound like she's ever smoked G13, or else she would have focused on her direct, firsthand experience with it; instead of writing off PK's ideas about biochar to being high, or too stoned to think straight.

I would much rather spend 45 minutes listening to a Shantibaba interview than listening to those two. That's just being brutally honest. She makes some good points, I'll giver her that much, but in general, she's not someone I'd spend a lot of time listening to. I don't feel like I learned much by the 60 minutes I spent listening to her/ them. That's 60 minutes I could have spent listening to Shanti, or someone like Jodrey, another Master Grower / Breeder.

 FF
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I’m just yanking your chain. It’s not Jesse, it’s just an AI conversation based on this thread. Nothing more than that. I figured yall would’ve picked up on the robots sooner. Don’t believe anything you see or hear.
 
CannaFish said:
I’m just yanking your chain. It’s not Jesse, it’s just an AI conversation based on this thread. Nothing more than that. I figured yall would’ve picked up on the robots sooner. Don’t believe anything you see or hear.
Click to expand...

Apollo said:
I listen only the first 8 minutes and got hick up couldn’t listen all maybe I should 😂🤠.
I have very short tolerance
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You see🙀 having a short tolerance for bullshit saved me 🫶🫡😂 and didn’t hear a thing from the other 2 you shared .
But now you mentioned was Ai they way the talked sounded like two nerds talking about something have no clue about 😀🤠🙀
 
Apollo said:
You see🙀 having a short tolerance for bullshit saved me 🫶🫡😂 and didn’t hear a thing from the other 2 you shared .
But now you mentioned was Ai they way the talked sounded like two nerds talking about something have no clue about 😀🤠🙀
Click to expand...

I actually believed it was two people but found it unusual that they did not sound as they ever had consumed Cannabis before ...
 
Apollo said:
You see🙀 having a short tolerance for bullshit saved me 🫶🫡😂 and didn’t hear a thing from the other 2 you shared .
But now you mentioned was Ai they way the talked sounded like two nerds talking about something have no clue about 😀🤠🙀
Click to expand...
The girl almost always said... Hmm, Ahhaa,,, :D
So I was like, what the hell is she thinking, what she know the hell :D
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
CharlesUFarley uploaded the following image, a while back, sourced from a post by Musashi:

Shantibaba's Stabilization Method

View attachment 95858
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The problem when doing this is the loss of vigor.
That's why it's better to make 2 parallels lines with the same F1 as starting point and recombine them after F5. It minimize vigor lost.

cf @lozac123 chart that explains the méthod.
sharkshockchart.gif
 
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