Holy moly, I don't quite have that much money at the moment! I will keep a look out though, thank you!!
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The original G13 s1
- Thread starter Apollo
- Start date
pleased420
Well-known member
Be aware that G13 S1 (fem) isn't G13 IBL (reg) as presented at the auctions... So you don't have to spend a fortune, if you just want to smoke some G13 flowers...
Keep in mind, you can self the majority of seed types including an IBL. There are advantages and disadvantages to selfed plants. IBL's (selective inbreeding over 5 plus generations) has it's advantages including stability and homogeneity. They can provide a solid basis for your breeding program. Think of this as similar to breeding the original landraces. And let's dispel the notion that all of the fancy polyhybrids that are available today are true F1's. They are merely a recombination of mutts.
mu
Virus Myth
Well-known member
If Im not mistaken Shanti posted a couple years back what he recommends to someone going about making his/her own IBL.
I cant find the post, so I made this drawing:
I cant find the post, so I made this drawing:
Freedom_Fighter
Well-known member
The original G13 was an F1 clone only smuggled out of a government facility. That it was an F1 is pure speculation on my part, based on the THC level of over 28%, which was unheard of back in the '80s & '90s. No way any true landrace strain could test that high. It was heralded as the most potent strain known back then.
It was later crossed to the Hashplant, and bred to IBL status, by selecting for G13 dominance and backcrossing to the Original cut, which gets it very close to purity status. The Original cut, (or IBL, not sure which) was then later crossed with Skunk #1, I think, and again cubed, by backcrossing, selecting for G13 dominance.
Perhaps Shantibaba has chronicled it in a Forum post. Not sure but I'd be surprised if he hasn't. I've seen it stated a few times on the Forum that Neville claimed he didn't "S1" the Original G13 cut.
FF
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Freedom_Fighter
Well-known member
I thought he said IBL status was achieved with the F5 generation. I've also seen it claimed that Neville believed IBL status was achieved in the F6 generation.
According to your map, the F2 female is backcrossed to the P1 male. The F3 male is backcrossed to the P1 female. Since the F2 & F3 generations are backcrosses, the F4 would be as well, presumably.
Cheers! - FF
lozac123
Well-known member
So I am wondering if it is a mistake that it's listed as an IBL/ regular line @musashi - not sure if you could get clarification? I got a pack of these directly from Shanti last year but I haven't been able to get a direct answer off him on whether they're feminized or regular.
The biggest question with it being an IBL is what is the male that's been used, when G13 is clone only?
Shanti had told me via pm that the same plant was used for the topflite version, and that he had provided them with the regular version, Shanti had kept some feminized seeds themselves to do some testing- so I am assuming thats what is appearing on the auctions rather than a different line altogether.
It would be great to clarify what exactly is being offered though.
Edit: a small fact that people might not know though is that Shanti did indeed regain access to the original G13 clone that was lost, I think around 2010. An underground grower had retired and offered it to Shanti, and it was confirmed to be legitimate.
The biggest question with it being an IBL is what is the male that's been used, when G13 is clone only?
Shanti had told me via pm that the same plant was used for the topflite version, and that he had provided them with the regular version, Shanti had kept some feminized seeds themselves to do some testing- so I am assuming thats what is appearing on the auctions rather than a different line altogether.
It would be great to clarify what exactly is being offered though.
Edit: a small fact that people might not know though is that Shanti did indeed regain access to the original G13 clone that was lost, I think around 2010. An underground grower had retired and offered it to Shanti, and it was confirmed to be legitimate.
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lozac123
Well-known member
@Virus Myth @Freedom_Fighter so Shanti had shared this chart with a member here, but it's a great way of viewing the world that go into IBLs. It is from the "Is Shark Shock an IBL?" thread.
Freedom_Fighter
Well-known member
Thanks, @lozac123, for posting this chart. Very interesting.
In this case, It doesn't show any backcrossing in the generations, unless I'm missing something. Two separate lines were created from the F2 generation and separately line bred for 4 generations before crossing them (A × B) to make the F7, which then becomes the new P1 generation for outcross breeding.
So, if I'm understanding it correctly, the chart implies that IBL status is achieved in the F7 generation, when the backcrossing method isn't used. So, the backcrossing method, it seems, can save some time in stabilization, but doesn't necessarily produce a better P1 generation.
There may be good reasons for not using the backcrossing method in some cases. - FF
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CannaFish
Well-known member
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thanks for sharing is always god Hera what is going around .
This are some
bad informed journalists or blogger trying to make sense
with mixing facts and fiction together.G13was clone only the s1seeds from the original clone was recently done when mns took the original cut back from a retired Grower .
Jesse has shared many info. Also in ic mag is very nice thread and skunk magazine has a recent article on g13
Nevil said he regretted he didn't reverse the G13 clone. @shantibaba finished the job.
Now everyone can have access to the mythical strain called G13. We should be all thankful
l consider every active person in this forum as very knowledgeable and dedicated grower for the survival of the plant, maintaining heritage and the genetic preservation. I'm very thankful be part of this journey with you all peopleI have learned so much from each one of you
Strain description:
G13 female to reverse female G13.
Diverse smells from fruity to berry and onion...
strong effect like a narcotic....
possibly 600 to 1000 gram per m2.
Height Short and Compact
60 days flowering.
The flowing plant is from this seeds grown: In Bio biz light mix soil with added a bit of charcoal.Pot Size 25 cm width 26 cm height .
Lights combination of 3 different types of leds
10 days Veg is the small red cup , under 50 watt SANlight Q1W DIM , fed 2 times Bio grow. 1ml ( Photosynthesis plus secrete dose
Then transplanted to the big pot and moved to flowering 11 hours 45 minutes light- 12 hours 15 minutes night.
Under
50 watt SANlight Q1W DIM , HLG quantum board 135 watt red spectrum and Tgl 65 watt cob 3500k.
Average temp 27,5 Celsius
Average humidity 60%
start feeding( watering 2 -3 times week ) feed is calculated in ml per Liter, if not mentioned s second watering is same as first
- week : Bio grow 1ml / Bio bloom 1ml / 0,5 ml Top max ( Photosynthesis plus secrete dose )
- week :Bio bloom 2ml / 1 ml Top max , second watering 2 ml Bio heaven, 3 watering 0,5 ml Bio Bizz cal mag
- week : Bio bloom 2ml /1 ml Top max, 0,5 ml Bio Bizz cal mag+( Photosynthesis plus secrete dose
- week : Bio bloom 2/ 1 ml Top max, (adding some fresh soil on top of the pots)
- week : Bio bloom 2ml / 1 ml Top max, 3 watering 1 ml Bio Bizz cal mag
- week :Bio bloom 4ml / 3 ml Top max (adding some fresh soil on top of the pots)
- week : Bio bloom 4ml / 4 ml Top max second only water
- week : light watering and harvest day 58
View attachment 79898
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CannaFish
Well-known member
Did you actually listen to it? 100% of the information used in the podcast was sourced directly from Jesse and shantibaba.thanks for sharing is always god Hera what is going around .
This are some
bad informed journalists or blogger trying to make sense
G13was clone only the s1seeds from the original clone was recently done when mns took the original cut back from a retired Grower .
Jesse has shared many info. Also in ic mag is very nice thread and skunk magazine has a recent article on g13
I listen only the first 8 minutes and got hick up couldn’t listen all maybe I should
.I have very short tolerance
Freedom_Fighter
Well-known member
After posting the above comment, I took a closer look into this topic and saw that @Deach69 has a thread about this question, which never received a clear answer. It would be nice to eventually get some clarification on it.
Just to clarify my comment, quoted above, it was based largely on memories of things I've heard or read over the years, partly on the claim made in the G13 Haze description, about all MNS G13 hybrids being inbred, and what I thought I heard Shantibaba state in a podcast interview; but perhaps I misheard him, or misunderstood what was said. I'll try to find that interview and listen to it again. It would be cool if the host of the PotCast would dig into this topic next time Shanti is on the Show.
Until then, it's best that I retract what I said about the G13Skunk being a "cubed" IBL; as it seems based on too many assumptions. I assumed, for example, that the purpose of the cross was to preserve the G13 genetics, in which case it would make perfect sense to select for G13 dominance in all generations, and backcross them to the G13 mother. That is, in effect, breeding out most of the Skunk influence.
That assumes, of course, the Original G13 mother survived long enough to complete the project. It may not have. In which case the most G13 dominant F2 selections would have been made, to proceed forward with preserving the strain. The goal, as I understood it, was not to make a balanced G13Skunk hybrid, but mainly to save the G13 genetics. The Skunk IBL was used because of its stability, and the relative ease of distinguishing the well known Skunk traits from the G13 influence.
As @Deach69 correctly points out, in his thread, the G13×Skunk is described as an F1 in the strain description, which is why I stated in my above comment that it might have been the G13 IBL version that was used, which would make true F1 seed. Based on Forum comments, by members who know the MNS G13 offerings far better than I do, it certainly sounds like a G13 IBL exists.
If the G13×Skunk is a true F1 seed, then the F2 generation should produce a very G13 dominant phenotype, if enough of the seed is grown out. That would be the obvious path to track, for the breeder who wants to hunt for the G13 genetics, in this cross, to drive the hybrid more in that direction.
FF
Freedom_Fighter
Well-known member
So, I listened to this "deep dive" piece twice, which claims Shantibaba received G13 seed from Nevil. The implication seemed to be that is was pure G13 seed, unhybridized. This is new to me, as I had never heard that before, tbh. Is that what Forum members are referring to as the MNS "pure" G13 IBL seed? Or, stated slightly different, was the G13 IBL derived from that seed?
Secondly, this lady seems to be saying on the one hand that G13 was never a "clone only" strain, but on the other hand she says the Original G13 clone died a long time ago, and no form of pure G13 exists today. Is that "direct from Shantibaba"? Sounds a little contradictory the way she states it.
She is claiming that ALL G13 seed today is hybridized; not pure G13. Does MNS agree with her on that point? If she is right about that, then what is the 'G13 S1' if it's not pure G-13?
Regarding another related matter, there is an interesting blog article on The Seedsman Blog, which states the following:
"Upon acquiring the G13 clone, the Seed Bank proceeded with creating a whole battery of G13 f1-hybrids. Some of the more notable creations were G13 x Ortega, G13 x Hashplant, G13 x Northern Lights #2, G13 x Haze and G13 x Skunk#1. Only the G13 x Hashplant is still available in seed form today and can be considered the closest relative to the original plant.
"The G13 Skunk was said to be the best hybrid and Nevil brought it to the attention of Shantibaba at Mr. Nice Seedbank when he left the Seedbank. It was then shelved and forgotten about for some time. After working through alarmingly low germination rates of the 20 year old seed, Shantibaba recently crossed the G13 Skunk that he got from Nevil to some old school Skunk#1 and his already famous Black Widow" ... etc.
The Seedsman is claiming that Neville acquired a G13 clone, only; not pure G13 seed. Does Shantibaba agree with that? Next, The Seedsman claims that the G13 seed that Shantibaba received from Neville was not pure, but hybridized G13 Skunk:
"After working through alarmingly low germination rates of the 20 year old seed," he says, "Shantibaba recently crossed the G13 Skunk that he got from Nevil to some old school Skunk #1." Can anyone verify that?
If The Seedsman is correct about that, then my next question concerns the percentage of G13 in the G13 Skunk currently up for auction? Would that be 25% G13 / 75% SK#1?
Cheers! - FF
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Wobby
Member
Interesting quandaries @Freedom_Fighter.
While you’re asking these questions, I’ll add one to the mix.
What’s the difference between the SSH & the SSH IBL? I was intrigued where this fits and more about the G13 IBL. I may lack time here (hence lack knowledge) but the appearance of these 2 IBLs surprised me.
I look forward to exploring some of MSM’s genes in the upcoming months.
While you’re asking these questions, I’ll add one to the mix.
What’s the difference between the SSH & the SSH IBL? I was intrigued where this fits and more about the G13 IBL. I may lack time here (hence lack knowledge) but the appearance of these 2 IBLs surprised me.
I look forward to exploring some of MSM’s genes in the upcoming months.