MangoHz

Ok, Excellent. Firstly, I have to say this. Indoor and Outdoor Marijuana are NOT the same.

A HPS or Metal Halide cannot in any way mimic the full spectrum of sunlight. That is obvious to anyone. In order to grow its full spectrum of terpines and psychoactives the plant needs a full spectrum of strong light. This is obvious.

Sure enough, I agree that outdoors in England or Holland is the same as indoors in as far as quality is concerned but have you ever smoked well grown outdoor grass from California? Or Southern Europe? I have. It blew my head off (not literally, of course!)
When I lived in Cyprus I grew outdoors. The sun there is so so strong (its about level with L.A in latitude)
The psychoactivity of the pot was unexplainable to someone who hasn't experienced it. I have never smoked ANY indoor pot like that, which has no ceiling to its high. ALL indoor pot seems to lead to a resistance whereby you can't seem to get as stoned off it after smoking it for some weeks (we've all noticed this, lets face it.) This doesn't happen with well grown outdoor weed from sunny places.

If you click on 'Strains' and then 'Testamonials' in this website and read Fijian's testimonial you will see what I mean. Have you EVER had an experience like that from indoor weed? Of course not. Don't lie.

RE small pots:

The way I see it is like this: If you plant a sativa in a 10litre pot you WILL restrict its roots. The roots will ALWAYS want to grow more than this during flower. (Sure, you can keep mommas alive for ages in small pots. You keep them as small mommas.. Once a sativa goes into flower it wants to stretch, and so do it's roots.)

Does this stress the plant? Well, you can see that the branches don't grow. Why? This is a symptom of stress to the roots. Its why you do it, sure, but stress it is.

The whole point of SOG is to stress the roots and limit branching. Fine, but sativa roots want to GROW.

All things are in balance. A plant is a whole system, a system of smaller, interconnected systems. The healthiest plants give the best branch structure, root structure, vascular structure. It also has the best flower structure, density, aroma, flavour. It will have the most resin production, yield, the highest THC production, everything, really.

So you see, if you want the best quality buds you must go for the biggest yields too. If you want the best flavour your plant will also have the best bud structure and the best resin production. If you want to see a plant with the biggest yield you will also see a healthy, completely non stressed plant with the best quality buds, the most flavoursome terpines, the most resin, the tightest flowers, etc.

To think that you can stress a plant in order to limit its branching without limiting any (in fact, all) other factors is naive. Sorry. Stressing a plant is stressing a plant. I am sure someone will quote that bit in blue and try to explain how you can stress a plant one way but not another, or some other such waffle but it is what it is. Stress. And its bad.

For Jay to claim this discussion is about connoisseur vs commercial is also naive, misses the point entirely and it actually a bit insulting (I don't mind criticism, but where it is due!) Commercial is about choosing Critical Mass over Mango Haze. Wanting to maximise the amount of connoisseur bud you will get is not commercialism, it is common sense and obvious! I don't sell my weed. I wouldn't grow haze if I was a commercialist.

If you want to SOG, go indica. If you want to grow a good sativa, go specimen plants. If you want to select then maybe combine the 2... You could easily put your plants just as close together but with 20litre pots or square 35 litre pots which are nearly touching (as I do when selecting - I notice that there is plenty of space between your pots..) then just prune the branches to get the structure you want. You will get IDENTICAL shaped plants with much less lumber and bigger, tighter and BETTER QUALITY buds. Trust me. AND you'll get a higher yield (although Jay seems to think that is bad, I counter!)

The reason you plant in small pots is, for one reason or another, in order to stress the plant. This is NOT GOOD GROWING PRACTICE and will lead to lower quality buds. There are other ways you can achieve the same results and NOT STRESS YOUR PLANTS as I have discussed above.

Also, when I'm talking about maximising yields I am not talking about choosing one strain over another or indica over sativa. I am not stupid! What I mean is that once you have selected, say, Mango Haze, as your bud of choice, you want as much of it as possible, right? (So long as quality doesn't suffer...)

Root restriction is for commercialists who want to harvest as quickly and as much as possible. They use indicas, they plant as many plants as they can and harvest them before they are mature. This way they can get the same yield but a week or two earlier. The buds are tight, they smell and have bag appeal but THE QUALITY IS LESS.

Growing sativas is about patience. Try growing the same number of seedlings but don't stress them and grow them over TWO grows instead of one, maybe.

I hope I haven't been too harsh. Maybe if it was later in the day and I had smoked a bit more I would have deliberated over my words more. My message would have been the same, though.

Seeing sativas in a SOG makes my heart sink. It is like seeing many puppies squeezed into a cage in a pet shop. The owner has 100 ways of telling you that the animals don't suffer but you know, in your heart of hearts, that they do and that the animals won't grow into the best dogs that they could have.


Take Care All
 
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Fair is fair, though

I wouldn't turn your buds down! hehe

Also - your photography is out of this world, man. I could stare at those photos all day. Even my ever suffering girlfriend, who hates all things weedy, was drooling over the close ups. I wish I knew how to do that.

I should also point out that I grew SOG for many years, mainly indica and then mix before I discovered the joy of mostly sativa plants. I eventually abandoned it as I discovered and developed more favourable alternatives. Aside from restricting root growth, you also restrict the plants water, oxygen and nutrient availability and promote damage to the fine top roots. This is further stress. Having to water/feed more often is bad. The plant get stressed when it can't get water/food it needs. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a human being to get the watering/feeding perfect but the less often the plant runs out the better. This is why hydroponic growers see such explosive growth rates and yields that soil growers couldn't even imagine. Bigger pots are the only way to do this with soil.
 
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Grover Sativa said:
Ok, Excellent. Firstly, I have to say this. Indoor and Outdoor Marijuana are NOT the same.

A HPS or Metal Halide cannot in any way mimic the full spectrum of sunlight. That is obvious to anyone. In order to grow its full spectrum of terpines and psychoactives the plant needs a full spectrum of strong light. This is obvious.

Sure enough, I agree that outdoors in England or Holland is the same as indoors in as far as quality is concerned but have you ever smoked well grown outdoor grass from California? Or Southern Europe? I have. It blew my head off (not literally, of course!)
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Hi again Grower Sativa,

I basically grew up smoking only outdoor weed , in fact had never seen or smoked indoor grown buds till I started growing indoors myself, the market where I live was always outdoor stuff due to the great climate we have and indoor crops are only starting to pop up here and there the last few years. So yes I do know well how outdoor weed is and smokes and I believe I do understand the differences quite well from my experiences. I have smoked many different landrace sativas and hybrids as well from around the world from indoor and outdoor gardens and what I know is that how you grow a plant is even more important that the potential of the environment itself. Growing a plant healthy and with good growth rates and adequate feeding is what matters most.

When I lived in Cyprus I grew outdoors. The sun there is so so strong (its about level with L.A in latitude)
The psychoactivity of the pot was unexplainable to someone who hasn't experienced it. I have never smoked ANY indoor pot like that, which has no ceiling to its high. ALL indoor pot seems to lead to a resistance whereby you can't seem to get as stoned off it after smoking it for some weeks (we've all noticed this, lets face it.) This doesn't happen with well grown outdoor weed from sunny places.
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I understand very well what you say about the psychoactivity of the outdoor pot you mention. The great pot you smoked was surely coming from great genetics and if was also well grown it must have been great. But in my opinion potency and high profile is in the genetics.
I kinda disagree on what you say about the no ceiling high in outdoors vs indoors , I 've smoked and grown plants with little or no ceiling to the high, indoors , and in my opinion I think it has to do with the genetics. By the way there is always gonna be a different effect from weed the first times and after constant use. But I can assure you plants like the Neville'sHaze or other good sats can manage to get you as high and deliver even after months of constant every day heavy use. Other strains like Apollo11 while they have a very nice high as well as good potency after smoking it for a while its almost unpotent and doesn't do the job. No matter indoors or outdoor.

If you click on 'Strains' and then 'Testamonials' in this website and read Fijian's testimonial you will see what I mean. Have you EVER had an experience like that from indoor weed? Of course not. Don't lie.
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Yes I have , and in fact I 'm happy to report that I m not from those growers that complain a lot about the 'great lost highs'. I still manage to find them ! There are plants out there that have all the nice qualities , its in the genetics you just have to find them.

RE small pots:

The way I see it is like this: If you plant a sativa in a 10litre pot you WILL restrict its roots. The roots will ALWAYS want to grow more than this during flower. (Sure, you can keep mommas alive for ages in small pots. You keep them as small mommas.. Once a sativa goes into flower it wants to stretch, and so do it's roots.)

Does this stress the plant? Well, you can see that the branches don't grow. Why? This is a symptom of stress to the roots. Its why you do it, sure, but stress it is.

The whole point of SOG is to stress the roots and limit branching. Fine, but sativa roots want to GROW.

All things are in balance. A plant is a whole system, a system of smaller, interconnected systems. The healthiest plants give the best branch structure, root structure, vascular structure. It also has the best flower structure, density, aroma, flavor. It will have the most resin production, yield, the highest THC production, everything, really.

So you see, if you want the best quality buds you must go for the biggest yields too. If you want the best flavor your plant will also have the best bud structure and the best resin production. If you want to see a plant with the biggest yield you will also see a healthy, completely non stressed plant with the best quality buds, the most flavoursome terpines, the most resin, the tightest flowers, etc.
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I don't agree if you want the best quality buds you must go for the biggest yields. I ve tried going big myself and didn't notice differences. I 've smoked the same plant in different gardens with different styles , big bush vs small sog plants and no didn't see any differences quality wise. Sorry

To think that you can stress a plant in order to limit its branching without limiting any (in fact, all) other factors is naive. Sorry. Stressing a plant is stressing a plant. I am sure someone will quote that bit in blue and try to explain how you can stress a plant one way but not another, or some other such waffle but it is what it is. Stress. And its bad.
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Obviously we have a different perception about what is stressing a plant.
Is wind stressing a plant ? Yes and no. You can say its stresses it..but at the same time it strengtheners it so it can withstand more stronger winds later on.So I prefer to say that factors affect a plant . Of course if the factor has an undesirable negative effect in growth or causes it to react in a bad way and complain I think that is stress . Plants are complex and plants react to their environment and they can adapt very well , as long as the plant grows healthy and with great vigor its not really stressed as far as I m concerned and some forms of 'stress' don't affect things like potency or resin production from what I see with my eyes and senses. Your thinking makes all environment factors be real stress factors that have a bad effect on the plants and more specifically in the quality of the final product. But in real life many so called 'stressful or limiting' factors not only don't decrease the quality but can help plants produce even better results in some cases so not all is white or black.

If you want to SOG, go indica. If you want to grow a good sativa, go specimen plants. If you want to select then maybe combine the 2... You could easily put your plants just as close together but with 20litre pots or square 35 litre pots which are nearly touching (as I do when selecting - I notice that there is plenty of space between your pots..) then just prune the branches to get the structure you want. You will get IDENTICAL shaped plants with much less lumber and bigger, tighter and BETTER QUALITY buds. Trust me. AND you'll get a higher yield (although Jay seems to think that is bad, I counter!)

The reason you plant in small pots is, for one reason or another, in order to stress the plant. This is NOT GOOD GROWING PRACTICE and will lead to lower quality buds. There are other ways you can achieve the same results and NOT STRESS YOUR PLANTS as I have discussed above.
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Small pots may be a bad growing practice to you but many growers me included don't agree.

Root restriction is for commercialists who want to harvest as quickly and as much as possible. They use indicas, they plant as many plants as they can and harvest them before they are mature. This way they can get the same yield but a week or two earlier. The buds are tight, they smell and have bag appeal but THE QUALITY IS LESS.
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For your information many great and well respected sativa expert growers and breeders have been using root restriction methods to succesively grow sativas indoors for bud production for decades so please don't tell me that is a commercialists method! As long as things are done intentionally and for a reason while being aware of how things affect the plant I believe everyone's happy. Not saying that my grows cannot be improved that would certainly be naive but allow me to disagree on a few things with you.

Growing sativas is about patience. Try growing the same number of seedlings but don't stress them and grow them over TWO grows instead of one, maybe.
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I m sure you are aware that I am a patient man , otherwise I wouldn't be growing mainly sativas and plants that take 3-4 months to flower when I could simply grow 6 or 8 weekers. I have tried to grow & flower from just one/few plants under a light to up to as many as 36 plants per bulb , so I have experimented myself a bit with different types of grow. I ve had plants that were grown in over 20-30liter pots and received long veg periods and had some that where grown their entire lives in pots as small as 1.5 liter pots.I have done such tests several times and worked with a variety of strains ranging from sats to mostly indica plants and with different mediums and ferts in my garden , so I believe I ve seen the differences with my own eyes. I didn't see differences in trichome production or high/potency when the pot size changed and I ve decided to grow this way as it works for me well and with not much effort. I ve concluded that for my garden the 11liter pots work fine for most strains and have a lot of advantages for what I am doing. 3 rows of 3 plants under a light with 11 liter pots that are 25cm wide covers the entire 600w footprint which is slightly under 1 m2. This gives around 1 square foot per plant of if I have only six per light they get a bit more space.

Seeing sativas in a SOG makes my heart sink. It is like seeing many puppies squeezed into a cage in a pet shop. The owner has 100 ways of telling you that the animals don't suffer but you know, in your heart of hearts, that they do and that the animals won't grow into the best dogs that they could have.
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Sativas and a dense SOG will not work as most sats grow quite airy structure and need space so I see what you say , but with 6-9 plant per light sog I have great results and really like how it works. Recently me and a mate of mine grew a NH cut , both soil/organics indoors-hps and my mate grew bigger plants with long veg time and the results quality wise were almost identical with the plants that were flowered from clone. You couldn't tell which was which in a blind test. Another friend who grew same cut , he trained a single plant under a light with coco and he also got very nice results.There were a few differences in flavor between the soil grown buds vs the coco ones but not in potency , mostly in the flavor and it seems its the medium and ferts that make some differences in the final product while growing style , not really from what I 've seen.

BTW you can't compare animals to plants , they are completely different species lol. Plants have been proven to be able to grow in different growing styles and still give excellent quality results. I 've seen sativas grow fine in SOG , seen them perform great with LST and other training methods as well as pruning methods . You think that those pruning methods are stressful as well and topping will lower the quality of the final product..?!

Regarding SOG or else called 'sea of green' is a method where you flower as many clones in your room as possible and usually clones in sog are flowered straight from rooting esp if sativas. Plant density will be determined by strain, its not fixed or something , with sats more than 6-9plants per light seem to not work well while with indica dominant hybrids and pure indicas I ve seen people grow over 42 plants per 600watter.

So we can agree to disagree if you want but I don't believe small pots grow less good bud , at least thats what I ve seen from my experience.
Plus I have a different perception about stress and what factors really affect the quality of the final product.
 
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Excellent, thanks L33t.

Very interesting stuff indeed.

I don't think we need to agree to disagree at all. I don't disagree with you, I am just offering an alternative view point about certain techniques. I would never say that I was right and you wrong. If you are sure that small pots don't affect bud quality then fair play. I am never sure about anything, just confident sometimes. Reading about, discussing and studying stuff isn't the same as actually seeing it. If you say that you and your friends have all had a very similar final product with radically differing grows I won't argue. Grow however works best for you.

RE wind: yes, of course it is a stress. The strengthening of the stem is a positive reaction to a negative stress. If the stem doesn't thicken the plant will break. Energy has been used that would otherwise have gone into resin production (and other things) Quality of final product is reduced. Simple. (Although by how much is arguable.)

Plants never react in a bad way (except by dying altogether...)

Reactions to stress are always favourable (at least as favourable as they can be given the conditions), obviously, because the plant is doing it to survive. That doesn't mean it isn't a stress. A wilting leaf is a favourable reaction to lack of water (favourable because the plant is using water stored in the leaf for more important things, such as flower and seed production). Lack of water is a stress and will reduce final quality.

Wind is probably the second biggest changeable limiting factor in outdoor marijuana gardens in the UK (outside of heat). We can't change the latitude or season length but we can plant in shelter or a greenhouse. The quality of weed will be much higher in shelter than in a windy place. Doubly so in the greenhouse. Quantity AND quality wise. (Unless we go down the UVB road and I don't know enough about that..)

Pruning is also definitely a stress. However it is an alternative to root restriction if you want to alter plant shape. Topping a plant will reduce flower and resin production (whether noticeably is a different thing...) I always prefer to leave a plant au natural than prune, if possible. Even bending is stressful but by how much? Should we care?

All stresses definitely have limiting factors on certain aspects of plant growth. Size, flower production, etc. I guess the question here is : Do certain stresses have a negative affect on psycho-activity? You say 'no'. I say 'possibly'.
I'm saying 'possibly' instead of 'yes' because THC percentage is inherent in the genetics but resin production is most definitely something that can be affected. So there are two camps to be in but can you at least see where I am coming from?

I think there is another possibility. One where we are both right (and possibly the correct one). If we grow indoors and are already substituting sunlight for bulb light then the main limiting factor is already set and the difference in quality caused by other stresses, such as root restriction and pruning might not be very noticeable (if at all), so we don't need to worry so much about it.

A grow shop friend of mine once argued that he wasn't at all bothered by the difference between hydro weed and soil grown when growing either indoors as the lack of sunlight dulls both to such an extent that the differences have been shrunk to negligible anyway. I didn't quite agree but see his point entirely.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Again, I hope I haven't offended you. The only thing is that if I were to agree with you, where would the discussion come from? How would I glean any nuggets to add to my chest of wisdom?

A healthy exchange of ideas is excellent and everyone learns something (even if, for some, it is just that I am a rude bastard)

Take Care

Grover

PS The puppies thing was a bit much, I suppose. Suffering little cute puppies and an evil pet shop owner. LoL. Great imagery, though and it's bringing a smile to my face now so it can't be all bad. I should try politics.
 
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Grover Sativa said:
RE wind: yes, of course it is a stress. The strengthening of the stem is a positive reaction to a negative stress. If the stem doesn't thicken the plant will break. Energy has been used that would otherwise have gone into resin production (and other things) Quality of final product is reduced. Simple. (Although by how much is arguable.)

Plants never react in a bad way (except by dying altogether...)
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Hi Grower Sativa

Plants do react in a bad way , they show visual signs of stress as well as you can see lost vigor growth - reduced growth rates as well as other signs. I disagree that winds reduce quality of plants if this is the only stress factor. Of course too much wind and it can surely damage a plant seriously but I m not talking about extremes here.

Reactions to stress are always favourable (at least as favourable as they can be given the conditions), obviously, because the plant is doing it to survive. That doesn't mean it isn't a stress. A wilting leaf is a favourable reaction to lack of water (favourable because the plant is using water stored in the leaf for more important things, such as flower and seed production). Lack of water is a stress and will reduce final quality.
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Lack of water will reduce final quality and so will limited availability of food or light but pot size doesn't seem to reduce quality as far as I noticed.

Wind is probably the second biggest changeable limiting factor in outdoor marijuana gardens in the UK (outside of heat). We can't change the latitude or season length but we can plant in shelter or a greenhouse. The quality of weed will be much higher in shelter than in a windy place. Doubly so in the greenhouse. Quantity AND quality wise. (Unless we go down the UVB road and I don't know enough about that..)
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In the UK where you get a lot of rains and temps are always quite low, wind can be a stressful factor indeed. Wind additionally cools the plant and combined with rain it can be destructive.Now , in my opinion you see reduced quality due to the fact that all 3 above environmental factors i mentioned above when combined can really have a negative effect in quality but imo wind alone with good temps and not much rain doesn't seem to reduce quality. But yeah if the plant is constantly being hit by wind and rain trying to survive in a cold climate its natural to see reduction in quality and I don't think anyone can doubt that. I believe this is the reason you see improvements in the shelters/gh's.

Pruning is also definitely a stress. However it is an alternative to root restriction if you want to alter plant shape. Topping a plant will reduce flower and resin production (whether noticeably is a different thing...) I always prefer to leave a plant au natural than prune, if possible. Even bending is stressful but by how much? Should we care?
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Topping will not reduce resin production! You are plain wrong on this. Ask other growers , I wonder what they have to say from their own experiences.

All stresses definitely have limiting factors on certain aspects of plant growth. Size, flower production, etc. I guess the question here is : Do certain stresses have a negative affect on psycho-activity? You say 'no'. I say 'possibly'.
I'm saying 'possibly' instead of 'yes' because THC percentage is inherent in the genetics but resin production is most definitely something that can be affected. So there are two camps to be in but can you at least see where I am coming from?
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Resin production is certainly affected by environmental factors and I believe so does specific cannabinoid production as well. For a plant to reach its potential quality wise it has to be grown well with enough light, nutes , good temps etc..but pot size and veg time doesn't seem to affect quality as far as I m concerned. This is where we can agree to dissagree on.
 
Ok L33t,

I have culled ALL of my other mothers now. Cheese included. They are all gone.

If this is your favourite baby then what do I need the other - lesser - varieties for?

I'm trusting you (and Shanti) on this but I think my faith will be rewarded! My mumma room has ONLY Mango Haze phenos in there now. I'm starting over!
 
haha Grower Sativa

Well the Mango Haze surely is one of my all time favorite smokes , Shanti did really great job with this one , you can't go wrong with Mango Haze , noone can , unless you hate a good sativa high that is hehe

good luck with your MH run and I m sure with a bit selection you ll find a special lady that suits you, let us know how they go
 
Am I Correct ?

Excuse Me For Interrupting , But Am I Right In Understanding A Cannabis Plant Can Only Make Use Of 4000 Watts Of The Sun's Strength ?
I Read That This Was The Saturation Point In One Of Jorge Cervantes Books
Haze , Being A Strain From Close To The Equator May Be Able To Absorb More Than 4000 Watts , But That's Only A Assumption.
I Did Once Do A 3 X 1000 Watt Phosphor Coated Halide Lamps , S.O.G- 72 Clones ( Using Three 4'X4' Tables ) Growing Godbud. No HPS Was Used At All.
Plants Took An Extra Three Weeks To Finish , And The Density Of The Bud Was So Much Better Than A Previous HPS Grow.
Extra Time , Extra Cost , Etc ,Made It A One Off , Reverting Back To Son- Agro Traffa " Pear Shaped " High Pressure Sodium.
Also An Observance ; As Soon As I Placed My Early Haze Plants Under A New 600 HPS , They Started To Flower Vigorously And Produced Buds Twice As Big As Outdoors ( Same Thing Happened With The Chemo Haze -2005 ).
Growing Outdoors In Wales Is Becoming More And More Challenging Every Year . South Eastern England Has A Much More Forgiving Climate IMO
Anyhow , Can Anyone Answer My Original Question About The Sun And Saturation Point ?
Excellent Thread Btw ;)
JKP:)
 
Hi Joe

Hope you are well mate.

The sun's giving approx 1350 watts / square meter of electromagnetic radiation (incl visible light) , at the top of the atmosphere .

On the surface of the earth its obviously less. For example in S.Spain during June with clear sky , irradiance values go up to 1000+w/sq at 12:00am but average value is around 700-800w/sqm2 for that time of the day due to cloud coverage.

I 've experimented to grow plants with over 1200w/sq meter and got great results.
Never grew with more intense light than that so cant really say how much plants can withstand. I usually like to use 2x600w per 1.5 sq meter and seems to be working well. Ambient temps and radiant heat also determine how much light a plant can withstand before showing stress probs. But a plant in nature on planet earth never recieves more than ~1100w/sq meter so I don't think plants are designed to withstand light intensity that is way over that value.
 
Hi L33t
I'm Doing Well Thanks , Hope You And Yours Are O.K Too:)
Thank You For The Reply . I Now Live Up On The 53rd , But Used To Live And Grow On The 49th In B.C , Canada
The Intensity Of the Sun On Vancouver Island Was A Lot More Powerful Than It Is Here ( I Lost My Year Round Suntan When I Returned To Wales Being A Clear Sign )
I Also Use 2x600's In A 1.5 Squared , Re-Skinned Homebox :)
Thanks Again
Joe:)
 
Hi guys - that's a scientific question/answer if ever I saw one. fuck me!

Great question, though. I wasn't aware of that at all.

I do have an observation which is on the same lines...

Whenever a stretchy sativa gets too close to the HPS lights the part of the cola that gets too close goes kinda fucked-up. Know what I mean? This must be something to do with light intensity and is something I noticed without ever really thinking too much about it. I suppose it was just a given that too much light intensity is bad...

I always presumed (and it is just a presumption, nothing more) that the sun is good because of the completeness of its spectrum as opposed to the intensity of its light (although good strong sunlight is also a good thing, obviously)

Anyway, I hope you are both faring well.
As for me, I took 9 hits from a new bong yesterday (I got carried away - the taste was just soooooo good.) 3 x home made hash, 3 x cannadential and 3 x Skunk#1. All straight in a row.
It took me 5 hours just to move off the sofa. I'm not sure if I was asleep or unconscious. I have to say that I didn't feel all that good when I came too, either. My girlfriend went mad when she came home from work.
I think I am addicted! Oh dear.....
 
Hi Grower Sativa

yes too close to the HID light and the plants get stressed and affected. Too much light and radiant heat can cause colas to go in a weird stretch mode or even get a light burn.

Btw the Sun is not good cause it only has full spectrum , but due to the fact its energy is distributed evenly from the bottom of the plants to the very top when direct sunlight hits a plant. This allows for better branch/side growth and the tops are not being 'fried' with the low parts being almost in the shade like in indoor gardens.
Plus due to the fact direct sunlight has almost completely parallel rays , it can penetrate more deep inside the plant.HIDs are point sources and the shadows are bigger and less direct light reaches deep down into the canopy inside the plants.
 
hi l33t,

Do you think it would be possible to keep the height of the mango haze plant at 1.5m max by using a smaller pot and using light schedules with longer dark periods as you've done here? Do they respond well to LST?

thanks
 
It will be dependent on the individual plant, some stretch more than others . You can always bend and/or top, I like to use a combo for stretchier plants.
 
like Ronin said some stretch more than others so for an even canopy some plants will need more training and if you veg maybe it would be better if you topped the hazy/stretchy ones.

But lst works fine with these plants and I don't really think the MH plants need root restriction , I would do use it only with slower plants like NH or pure sats ..maybe would do just the most hazy Mango plants and still only if I had high plant numbers and wanted the plants to finish asap. Otherwise its better to stick to lst/training , topping or a combo like Ronin said so you do not lose yield from the small pots
 
In my experience topping a haze creates an airy bush. Great for hash but not so great for bud. Likes others said LST is the best option for keeping any plant short. I use it on every plant in my micro garden.
 
I agree with you, HHHG, that that happens if you don't cut back the lower and inner side branches that explode after the topping. After you cut the light back and the growth slows, strategically cut a bunch of the mentioned parts off and see what happens. Let it concentrate on 4 - 8 main branches at most (depending on size of plant/pot/room). I grow many types of Shanti's Haze hybs and I don't ever have airy buds since I started with that technique.

It makes for a bunch of good cloning material too!!
 
when they get too big for the garden!

I actually try not to top my hazes. I prefer bending, pulling, weighing down, tying down, streching, pushing and generally beating the plant into some kind of shape. It often goes all over the place but I find it best not to lose the top of the plant for yield reasons...

Best way to control height is to put the clone straight in and give her 10 or 11 hours of light instead of 12.

L33t and I do have a disagreement about whether to use root restriction on hazes. Indicas, I don't mind but I prefer not to restrict the roots of sativas they need as much access to food and water as possible (more roots, more fruits.)

L33t is of the opinion that restriction helps with control. He grows better this way.

Neither of us is right or wrong but you may have to find your own style as all growers have different ways. Experimentation and experience is key here. I do appreciate that asking the right questions may speed up the process but you may get different views and answers!

Another great way to control the height of the Mango Haze is to select the Northern Lights pheno. It is not as tall as the skunky or hazey phenos but smokes different too (and maybe the point of Haze varieties is the Haze phenos...both myself, L33t and Jesse will all go for the more sativa phenos, I suspect.)

Learning is all the fun. Let us know what you find and what you think.


GS
 
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