LED tutorial forum

[Skunkerbudz]

I think most of the questions is for you to answer, do some home work , research and practice this best way to learn cause opinions can vary alot .
people achieve results with different ways.

What I saw is this .

Changing from Hps to led till I tuned in I used more food and cal and mag and on ,had deficiencies and few issues with quality in some strains

Later on I Realized that if I add more root space ,around half way of flowering solved all the feeding issues I had . that was the time I discover the double potting system


No far red for many hours on is not good for them ( I have no scientific proof but i say it from my experience) I turn far Red on only the last 5-10 minutes before lights go off.
Super air flow this means 2 to 3 times more from the recommended for the size of the tent.
Every plant is different so feed with the eye is necessary
and few more not willing to share .

The double potting is my secrete free for everyone

@Apollo can you expand on Super air flow?

Thx

 

[thaseus92]

No far red for many hours on is not good for them ( I have no scientific proof but i say it from my experience) I turn far Red on only the last 5-10 minutes before lights go off.

Can you explain why u think its better ? i get the argument thats the natural time cycle but tbh my far red and UV run the whole light cycle thru and what i can say is its the weed with the most terpenes i growed so far what my books say come thru UV and Far-Red.

Super air flow this means 2 to 3 times more from the recommended for the size of the tent.

Totally agree with that, but not bad to have some Temp/Humi Controller attatched to that.

thaseus92 - Thanks for the detailed reply. That unit you listed looks to have an unusually high output in the green spectrum but a DIY board might be fun. I have also been looking at HLG lighting LEDs but I am reluctant to spend the $$$ when I am having an easier time under HPS.

Yeah as mentioned before i also used the phillips greenmaster NDL that has an greater spectre in green. Cant explain why but get always the best results with that boost of green even when there is the main idea around only blue and red counts.
Im not to deep into phyto science but i guess each spectre plays an unique role and the broader and closer to the sun it is the better the whole life cycle of the plant will be.

I do not believe l.e.d is king yet...
Multiple 600w / 1K HID are currently heavyweight champions in my opinion.

Absolute true, when u look where actual criminal growers that make it big time get busted they always use the NDL bulbs with 2 metal ends. In ratio of buying price and yield NDL is quite unbeatable.

 

[grow_fetishist]

Cant explain why but get always the best results with that boost of green even when there is the main idea around only blue and red counts.

Apparently green can penetrate better, reaching the lower parts of the plant. The focus on red and blue was when that was what lighting provided. With LEDs we have more colours to play with. The evolution of LED plant lighting also has to do with the efficiency of the LEDs. Although it was known that other colours were useful, the LEDs simply didn't provide enough useful photons for the amount of energy consumed. I base this mainly on watching videos by Bruce Bugbee.

For some reason I need to login to youtube for all of his videos (not age restriction though), so I couldn't look for the relevant one. He also talks about green in a video with Migro.

More recent articles are being published by Erik Runkle. Though his is are focused on cannabis like a lot that's available from Bugbee. One interesting thing I recall Bugbee saying, is that they were limited in the THC content their plants could have as it was in the university. Which would explain him often saying he hasn't been able verify things which commercial growers have claimed regarding light spectrum. But I couldn't find anything in writing and of course can't find the clip again either, because I don't even recall the subject of the video.

Search

www.canr.msu.edu

My most recent grow was also my first with LEDs. I never had any problems with HIDs and tubes.

With LEDs it was different. Not possible to judge. Also the area covered of course depends on the shape.

So I bought this PAR meter based on user accounts on a German forum. I'll only be able to say if it has helped in a few months. At a minimum it should help with making some reflectors to match the board with the space.

FH-100 PAR Meter - VABIRA – LED Grow Light with Intelligent Control Manufacturer

Test PPFD and LUX accurately according to different light sources Range:380-750nm Response Time Less than 1 ms Bluetooth

vabira.com

In Europe it's available as the VBR-100. Supposed to be best value for money at present.

Absolute true, when u look where actual criminal growers that make it big time get busted they always use the NDL bulbs with 2 metal ends. In ratio of buying price and yield NDL is quite unbeatable.

Yes, extremely low startup cost. Also interesting how much cheaper they've become compared to let's say a decade ago. If a criminal grow is also stealing power, then it's a no-brainer. Several stories about that in German news (where they use NDLs instead of HIDs )

For home and commercial use on the other hand, I think we've reached a stage where many LED grow lights are better than HIDs. Legalisation in many places also meant advancments in research. You can buy LED lights that allow you to adjust the spectrum throughout the grow to match time of day and year or adjust for any other requirement you might have.

 

[grow_fetishist]

published by Erik Runkle. Though his is are focused on cannabis like a lot that's available from Bugbee.

Post too old to edit: I meant to say Runkle's are not focused on cannabis like a lot from Bugbee, i.e. more generic so we likely can't simply transfer everything to our grow. I don't know enough about plants in general to be able to tell, but I do know there are at least two types in regards to shade which has something to do with the spectrum.

... I just looked it up... SAR and STR are the key acronyms:

Understanding the Shade Tolerance Responses Through Hints From Phytochrome A-Mediated Negative Feedback Regulation in Shade Avoiding Plants - PMC

Based on how plants respond to shade, we typically classify them into two groups: shade avoiding and shade tolerance plants. Under vegetative shade, the shade avoiding species induce a series of shade avoidance responses (SARs) to outgrow their ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Yes, extremely low startup cost. Also interesting how much cheaper they've become compared to let's say a decade ago. If a criminal grow is also stealing power, then it's a no-brainer. Several stories about that in German news (where they use NDLs instead of HIDs )

BuildASoil: FULL REVIEW FLORAFLEX 700W GROW LIGHT / UNBOXING / FULL SPECTRUM LED (Product Highlight) || BuildASoil w/ Jeremy

Great review video by Jeremy. He sells this 700w budget LED for $375.00 USD, with free shipping. He rates it as the best value for your money, currently. Very interesting.

For home and commercial use on the other hand, I think we've reached a stage where many LED grow lights are better than HIDs.

I agree, in general. However, according to "career hustler" Kevin Jodrey, that can often be "strain dependent".

Indoor strains which were selectively bred under HPS lighting, he says, will "shine" (i.e. perform better) under that light source; whereas those which were bred under LED will "shine" better under LED.

He bases that not on "untested" theory but on actual repeat trials and testing. I can't verify his claim from my own exexperience but it makes sense to me.

If you have an F-1 strain that was selectively bred under HPS, it's possible the F-2 generation may produce phenoes that perform better under LED, in theory; if you go deep and really sift through it.

 

[musashi]

^^^ Hmmm, something about epigenetics?

mu

 

[lozac123]

@Apollo can you expand on Super air flow?

Thx

Not sure if Apollo answered it, but apparently its one of the biggest things with "jungle plants". Airflow, that is, good quality oxygen is apparently so important for the hazes. I am saying apparently because I myself am still following advice, but I jumped from organic soil led, to hps hydro without any issues so far. Once I have a harvest under this set up, I will be able to properly confirm, but everything looks good so far.

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

... according to "career hustler" Kevin Jodrey, that can often be "strain dependent".

Indoor strains which were selectively bred under HPS lighting, he says, will "shine" (i.e. perform better) under that light source; whereas those which were bred under LED will "shine" better under LED.

No evidence HPS is better than LED... yet. || MIGRO Shane

 

[DannyTwoJoints]

Anecdotally, I'm getting better results from the LED with higher soil temperatures. Breeder Steve has been talking about this recently as well. Will post some articles when I get a chance to read through some

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

He sells this 700w budget LED for $375.00 USD, with free shipping. He rates it as the best value for your money, currently. Very interesting.

Fold 800 Full Spectrum LED Grow Light – Medicgrow

Fold 800 Full Spectrum LED Grow Light for Indoor Plants

The Fold-800 is a game-changer for indoor and commercial growers. Delivering optimal light for superior plant growth, it combines exceptional efficiency with an unbeatable price.

medicgrow.com

Only $280.00 + Free Shipping (in the USA)

Mind blowing! I never imagined I would see an 800w full spectrum LED grow light sell for this low. If I didn't already have decent grow lights, I would find this deal hard to resist.

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Anecdotally, I'm getting better results from the LED with higher soil temperatures. Breeder Steve has been talking about this recently as well.

LED vs HPS for Growing : James Loud Podcast Clip w/ Chris Castle

A fascinating topic for sure, and certainly one that good breeders can't possibly ignore. They will spot subtle differences of gene expression, and eventually trace them back to cause(s).

Eventually LED spectrum tuners will provide enough control to mimic HPS, if that's what a grower needs or requires, to fine tune things, for certain heirloom or legacy strains. I see this issue as more of a potential problem or concern for "clone only" strains, grown under HPS light for decades.

While I don't ever see myself buying another HID grow light in my life, I can't totally rule it out, especially if it's plasma tech, at a reasonable price. Regardless, I would hate to see HPS tech disappear. I'd prefer it to stick around & improve.

 

[musashi]

Great conversations braddahs. Thanks for sharing!

mu

 

[lozac123]

No evidence HPS is better than LED... yet. || MIGRO Shane

So I am actually gonna piggy back off this, because I follow Shane very very closely as it was him that influenced my first purchase of lights.

But if you watch more and more of his content, particularly the interview he did with pigeons and the from the stash crowd, he isn't actually a grower. I've asked him a lot of questions through discord, and I really did find the anwers he was giving quite misleading or not particularly helpful. His background is in engineering, and his wife's family business is in horticulture which is where his background in the lights comes from.

An amazing example of him not really having green fingers is his chili grows. They're great to see the difference between hydro, organic and coco, but its not exactly a scientific test.

He has a vested interest in pushing LEDs, but he is also very switched on and is noticing that people like mass medical strains are really pushing HID technology again. Even speaking to members on the boards here, the best mix seems to be a bit of both, HPS and LED.

My personal issue with everything that Shane does, is that it needs to come from a scientific background (which I agree with), but in my personal opinion, if we only have proper scientific research coming from one person/ institute (Bugbee), can it really be free from bias and therefore scientific?

Please note these are musings, I enjoy watching Shane's videos, I enjoy Bugbee's content, and he is a horticulturist scientist expert, but like Shane he also is selling something- his instruments. Until we have properly peer reviewed research, we can't really make pure judgements, but I dont think we should write off bro-science just yet. Most of modern science started off on a "hunch". It wasn't until we adopted the scientific method that we could truly back up our hunches.

But another personal opinion of mine is we live in a culture that is extremely quick to shut down things that haven't been proven. Semmelwise was the doctor that realised that if you washed your hands between delivering babies, more babies survived. He was shunned out of the medical world because it went against medicine and he was perceived to be a bit crazy. Died several years later, exiled from the medical community in a mental assylum. Imagine how many lives he saved with that idea that couldnt be proven at the time?

TL;DR: We live in a world of influencers. No "elite" strain has come from a "scientific" breeder, its always come from a passionado. I think our world of ganja needs more artists, not scientists. But we do need more research on our beloved herb.

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

While I don't ever see myself buying another HID grow light in my life, I can't totally rule it out, especially if it's plasma tech, at a reasonable price.

Plasma Lighting Systems for Cannabis Growing
https://www.cannabisgrowingcanada.com/plasma-lighting-systems-for-cannabis-growing/

1.) Light Emitting Plasma (LEP) Grow Lights || DeBacco University

2.) What is a Light Emitting Plasma (LEP) Lamp

3.) Plant Experiment Light Emitting Plasma

4.) LEP Versus LEC | Test & Compare

5.) Light Emitting Plasma (LEP)

I've been waiting a long time for a 600w or 1000w LEP gow light to hit the market, at a reasonable price. It has an amazing spectrum with a good amount of UV-A & UV-B. Keeping my fingers to see one someday soon.

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Plasma Lighting Systems for Cannabis Growing
https://www.cannabisgrowingcanada.com/plasma-lighting-systems-for-cannabis-growing/

If it wasn't for the LED breakthroughs the LEP grow light tech would have advanced much further by now, and very likely taken over the market. Don't count it out yet, though. It's a future contender, imho.

Plasma Grow Lighting

Plasma Grow Lighting at Cultivate '15

NOTE: The above LEP company went out of business because the owner eventually shifted all his money & resources into LED grow light tech.

Pure Plasma Lighting Kickstarter Video

Pure Plasma Lighting Kickstarter Video

youtu.be

Solar Genesis II Plasma Grow Light vs 600w HID

NOTE: This Hydro Grow Shop went out of business shortly after making the above video, so there were no test updates, unfortunately.

Ceravision UV420 PLASMA Grow light || A MIGRO Review

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

If it wasn't for the LED breakthroughs the LEP grow light tech would have advanced much further by now, and very likely taken over the market. Don't count it out yet, though. It's a future contender, imho.

1.) Gavita Proto Plasma Growlight @ 2009 High Times Cup 2009

NOTE: Because Gavita is so heavily invested in HPS tech, it elected to make a small LEP light to supplement their HPS lights. However, it readily claims, without hesitation, that the LEP spectrum (& lifespan) eclipses HPS. If it made stand-alone 600w /1000w LEP lights, at a reasonable price, it would potentially kill their HPS sales.

2.) Gavita 300 LEP Plasma Grow Light

3.) Gavita Plasma Lighting

4.) HID & LEP Comparison

5.) PlasmaLyte Test & Review