Wow !
That didn't go as I expected
Hi All
well back from Spannabis and was able to read a fair bit of certain threads i have not had time to do previously.
I must say reading some of the theories and reasoning behind a lot of your opinions , well they sound kind of unusual.
Mullum Madness was at least a 3/4 haze in the form we had it and the closest plant i felt represented a pure Haze, if you consider this as me lying outright Old Spice it would be great to know why, as in the mid 80s when it was been grown in Main Arm and around those areas its scent was already apparent before you even saw the plant...but always happy to see photos or hear info as to why you believe as you do? Funny also to hear you think i am flowering up description without saying anything...kind of unusual so many companies blindly copied my descriptions word for word or paraphrasing...but they had nothing of original plants to begin with ....so you see it really is ok to give opinions about peoples work, but based on facts rather than theories. Not sure how old you are and what experience you have had with cannabis but maybe taking a more polite tack in asking for clarity with specific questions in mind may be a better way to be heard and taken seriously.
I got Nevil and my notes from many years ago written in our hand writing and maybe one day put it up to curb your enthusiasm and put you on a clear path, but for now it seems your theories are fueling new myths as is normal in this industry...and it is amusing at times to see how you all think.
The thing is that words as important as they are, really are nothing against the proof of the seed you are using. So maybe explain projects you are all doing and why with photos , so people follow your work and can add comments to help rather than hinder...as this is what forums are for in the end. Most of you were not around or ever saw plants we used as mothers and fathers...so it is much harder to prove historical references with this situation in fact.
Speaking of things, I have made a new version of G13 widow in seed form ready for testing...so if any of you wish to become testers of this seed then maybe watch the boards as to the details....
While i really do not mind people discussing, it is not so nice to be disrespectful to your hostsite...it reads badly and reflects upon he who writes such material. As i always say, if you got nothing nice to say then say nothing....
all the best Shantibaba
This is your house and you certainly deserve respect as the host.
But getting defensive about being called out on these issues will not make the questions go away or change the perception of your loyal members who see these things but choose not to say anything or have given up trying to get answers on pedigrees out of frustration.
You may not see it this way, but my intent is to help you by trying to get answers that some of your most knowledgeable customers need to make buying or breeding decisions with your genetics.
If you surround yourself with people who always tell you what you want to hear, you lose a valuable opportunity for improvement.
Based on the response, I'm sure you see this as an attack instead of an opportunity.
This defensiveness reminds me of the way things were back when Jesse and Hempy ran the show here. "Pull up the drawbridge and stand up the archers. It's us against the world."
I believe MNS has a big opportunity to set the record straight on pedigrees and OWN the high ground among old school European houses for transparency.
You are right. The houses that sell their own versions of MNS lines often parrot your strain descriptions. Often they have taken it a step further and created fresh fairy tales about the origins of the lines, or use old fairy tales written by Jesse. Having other people copy these things is in no way an endorsement of the validity of the original. It is just a legacy of a different era in the marketplace and it needs to be cleaned up.
It is hard to take it as anything short of insulting when you make comments that show your amusement when your customers flail around with theories about what is in the seeds they buy from you, spending countless hours over
years, working lines blindly in pursuit of a goal when you could answer their questions and save them this precious time and painful experience with a single line post on your forum.
I had forgotten that I wrote the post that ultimately got you to engage here. I've written other posts like that hoping to get a response from you. The nicely worded requests for pedigree information consistently go unanswered by you here.
I could go through your reply line by line and point out the irony as you validate every point I made in my comment, but I do not think it would be productive.
I have grown Mullum and haze in the last 7 years, and Colombian and Thai in the early 80's before Nevil got Haze from Sam.
Mullum from Kanga is not Haze. Maybe yours was. Who knows.
Later in this thread you post a different pedigree for Mango Haze and SSH.
The conflicting posts from you describing both of them as haze C only hybrids go back many years. Jack and others have posted the details here.
You do this, then offer no explanation for which "truth" is the correct one or how both could be true.
Maybe you just expect us to accept "alternate facts" as the concept of truth seems so mutable these days. Orwell would be sadly shaking his head.
Either the pedigree changed, or the old pedigrees from you that people have worked with for years were wrong.
You are right about one thing though: it is not healthy or productive to endlessly speculate about the origins of something when the keeper of the facts has no interest in sharing them.
Sifting through this forum for clues and weighing conflicting statements to pick winners is a fools game and one I am done with. I have many friends here and it hurts me to see them trapped in the gravitational pull of these mysteries.
It's not healthy to be amused by that struggle.
I have grown and smoked multiple Haze A hybrids. I know what the terps smell like, I know the effects, and I recognize the phylotaxy of the haze A phenos.
I have access to A5 hybrids. I could probably get the A5 cutting if I needed it and was willing to do what was necessary (but I don't and I'm not.)
The good news for me is that although I like the terps, I didn't like some of the effects of Haze A. I am not questing for it like so many others. I love the effects of Haze C and various oHaze lines out there, which are easy to find.
Shanti, it makes me sad to see your response here because I know you're a nice guy, and everyone I know that knows you "in real life" holds you in high regard. But the way you have been handling this issue is something I can't resolve out with the person people tell me you are.
I try to put myself in your shoes to understand possible reasons for these things, but like getting to the bottom of your pedigrees, I am done with that as well.
I enjoy my MNS strains and will make my decisions on how to use them in breeding (if I do) based on what I find in the plants. That is what you have always told us to do, when asked for pedigree details.
One last thing . . .
When you you post things like this:
Hi All
glad to hear it has helped but still waiting to see one pedigree breeding planning from anyone here to do with this information. Or some photos of grows or breeds you guys are working on that will show this information is working positively or negatively for your work....
Basically, you insult every member of your board by telling them (us) that they (we) are all hacks who wouldn't know what to do with a pedigree if you gave it to us.
I would suggest that just because you don't see people sharing any high level breeding work here doesn't mean they're not doing it, and skillfully at that.
They just share that work elsewhere.
You can develop your own theories about why they don't do it here.
The archives of this board have many posts from former members who have gone on to become successful breeders in their own right, selling seeds that compete with yours in the marketplace.
The reasons they are "former" vary by the individual I'm sure, but the "us against the world" mindset doesn't help.
You are a busy man Shanti, I get it.
I am glad my post got your attention and eventually led you to answering some of the questions we have all been asking.
It was good for you to answer these questions even though you clearly don't want to.
Good, even though the answers were incomplete, contradicted what you have said before, and were accompanied by a healthy dose of hubris.
You may not understand this, but you are a tool salesman. If you sell tools without instructions on how to use them, eventually people will buy their tools elsewhere.
Accurate pedigrees are an invaluable resource for those seeking to build their work with your tools.
Edited to add: I sent you a PM in June of last year asking for pedigree info on "New Skunk."
Never got a reply.
