jack hairy
Banned
plenty has come to light for me, i dont know about you guys
Haze A or Haze C in Afghan Haze crosses ?
- Thread starter Sirius C
- Start date
zircon
New member
cool jack, anything gleaned plus our own personal perception and interaction works
shantibaba
Breeder and moderator
Hi All
glad to hear it has helped but still waiting to see one pedigree breeding planning from anyone here to do with this information. Or some photos of grows or breeds you guys are working on that will show this information is working positively or negatively for your work....
So while academically you may all theorize about what may have been or will be....it is time to actually explain how or show why this information has affected your working...as i read so much about wanting to know how breeds are created etc...and seen people use MNS genetics in their new works, but it would be nice to actually see how your own lines are working and progressing...so look forward to some interesting exchanges...all the best Sb
glad to hear it has helped but still waiting to see one pedigree breeding planning from anyone here to do with this information. Or some photos of grows or breeds you guys are working on that will show this information is working positively or negatively for your work....
So while academically you may all theorize about what may have been or will be....it is time to actually explain how or show why this information has affected your working...as i read so much about wanting to know how breeds are created etc...and seen people use MNS genetics in their new works, but it would be nice to actually see how your own lines are working and progressing...so look forward to some interesting exchanges...all the best Sb
topheavy420
New member
Hello there shanibabba,
Firstly it's nice to see you engaging in your forum. My personal goal is based on yours and nevil AC theory. However rather than just use a single plant from mns as you say many companies do with no real work. I am doing plenty of hunting and locking down of traits on my end, the "work" part. Here is a 5hzC I found:
I used a non dominant male to produce an F2 generation and it let the hazeC shine through even more:
Now I'm going to go several direction because as you know we can't always predict the outcome.
1- I may use the original C5 clone selected by nevil in late '80s as they've made their way to the us, to lock down more specific traits.
2- I may use the original A5 clone to complete the union of A and C.
3- I may take it to F3 or F4 to put in more of my own work to separate myself from you and nevil.
4- I may use NH and NHM to find some plants that are heavily influenced by haze A to complete the union of A and C.
5- I may take the NH or NHM to F3 or F4 to find my plant and put in work and further separate myself from those before me before I try to combine A and C.
So it is paramount that I start with the least muddied seed lines, and for God's sake I don't want any damn skunk in it! Not to mention alot of this is based on things nevil has said and your guys AC theory, I specifically want A and C in the line, also to be doubled up on C in one way or another.
That is the basics, I could go deeper and type much much more but I think I've made my point.
I'd think eventually I will find a stud from this work and I would have a clear concious using him.
What do you think shantibaba???
topheavy420
New member
I have to add that fillial generation is important also. From my own experience lots of potency is lost after F4 even if line bred after the fact. There have been other breeders and growers who have said things like SSH is at F4. True or untrue this info is paramount also for reasons beyond what's stated above.
Showing your work, i.e. starting points, mom's and dads, ect are the new norm for cannabis breeder. Lots are doing just that now because of the dishonesty that has gone on for so long with so many. So while you guys may have been the most forth coming and open with your breeding you've fallen behind the curve now. Maybe that's why customers are more demanding of this info now.
Something to think about.
Showing your work, i.e. starting points, mom's and dads, ect are the new norm for cannabis breeder. Lots are doing just that now because of the dishonesty that has gone on for so long with so many. So while you guys may have been the most forth coming and open with your breeding you've fallen behind the curve now. Maybe that's why customers are more demanding of this info now.
Something to think about.
shantibaba
Breeder and moderator
Hi TH
nice to finally see some real project and think you are generally going about it in a logical and pragmatic process...well done.
Now the basic phenotypes you have chosen are definitively towards your goal. As i maintain and always have after 3 inbreeds the plant turns towards the breeder selection of traits and can be a long way from my origins...
C5 is a good example probably lower in potency from the A5, but nevertheless a good consideration for further projects...but to be sure i would hit them both and test the progeny.
As for falling behind in breeding interaction with new generation, well i just did Spannabis and leading the way with CBD breeding projects in 5 countries with many different types of industries, so i think you mean i did not pay much attention to my own forum in the last period of time....and the independent hobby breeders....which i agree on. But in recent years the boom has exponentially increased my work load, and i do longer hours now a days than when i was beginning work in Amsterdam full time...in early 90s. So it is harder to find hours in the day , so i do what is possible so i can still enjoy my family on a daily level. But sure the day is coming for me to pass the baton over and i am proud there are some great minds out there in and around our crew so it eases me on that level.
I got a few more new projects on at present to set up testers on MNS forum and do a group test grow...which i look forward to fore sure. So while it is still fun and rewarding in seeing projects work, there are equally as many that do not...and the time and energy to go through things at times is far more demanding than i feel to put into them...but once you begin you are committed so no half pregnant attitudes here...just picking projects that are stimulating and interesting and enjoyable surrounded by plants is where i am still at.
Anyway i will do my best to tune in as much as i can here as believe it or not , i still find many interesting grows and people on this community among the whole population.
Enjoy what you do and help where you can, till next time all the best Sb
nice to finally see some real project and think you are generally going about it in a logical and pragmatic process...well done.
Now the basic phenotypes you have chosen are definitively towards your goal. As i maintain and always have after 3 inbreeds the plant turns towards the breeder selection of traits and can be a long way from my origins...
C5 is a good example probably lower in potency from the A5, but nevertheless a good consideration for further projects...but to be sure i would hit them both and test the progeny.
As for falling behind in breeding interaction with new generation, well i just did Spannabis and leading the way with CBD breeding projects in 5 countries with many different types of industries, so i think you mean i did not pay much attention to my own forum in the last period of time....and the independent hobby breeders....which i agree on. But in recent years the boom has exponentially increased my work load, and i do longer hours now a days than when i was beginning work in Amsterdam full time...in early 90s. So it is harder to find hours in the day , so i do what is possible so i can still enjoy my family on a daily level. But sure the day is coming for me to pass the baton over and i am proud there are some great minds out there in and around our crew so it eases me on that level.
I got a few more new projects on at present to set up testers on MNS forum and do a group test grow...which i look forward to fore sure. So while it is still fun and rewarding in seeing projects work, there are equally as many that do not...and the time and energy to go through things at times is far more demanding than i feel to put into them...but once you begin you are committed so no half pregnant attitudes here...just picking projects that are stimulating and interesting and enjoyable surrounded by plants is where i am still at.
Anyway i will do my best to tune in as much as i can here as believe it or not , i still find many interesting grows and people on this community among the whole population.
Enjoy what you do and help where you can, till next time all the best Sb
The Flea
2023 COE Winner
Hi all,
What a truly interesting thread.
Its great that Shanti has taken the time to answer lots of questions.
I have grown both Afghan Haze and ASH and in my experience they are both excellent. The Haze C male is true fire. Below is a picture of my Haze C leaning keeper. She is awesome in every way.
Also here is a link to an old thread with a few pictures of my Afghan leaning ASH (and some Nevs Skunk)
https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/nevilles-skunk/10608-two-nevs-one-ash-5.html
Keep it green.
TF.
What a truly interesting thread.
Its great that Shanti has taken the time to answer lots of questions.
I have grown both Afghan Haze and ASH and in my experience they are both excellent. The Haze C male is true fire. Below is a picture of my Haze C leaning keeper. She is awesome in every way.
Also here is a link to an old thread with a few pictures of my Afghan leaning ASH (and some Nevs Skunk)
https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/nevilles-skunk/10608-two-nevs-one-ash-5.html
Keep it green.
TF.
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kief420
Active member
Amazing work ! Very impressed ! Right now I'm working on a few crosses with a c99 male just for shit and giggles and for different phenos and to dig through at a latter date . I love Cindy but the over all plant could be improved on in over all structure . I wanted to get into hazier plants after that but think i may have picked up the wrong strains for the results I'm trying to find . So my next work will be on pre98 bubba kush x 88 g13 hashplant . I saw a photo on here on how shanti made great white sharkHello there shanibabba,
Firstly it's nice to see you engaging in your forum. My personal goal is based on yours and nevil AC theory. However rather than just use a single plant from mns as you say many companies do with no real work. I am doing plenty of hunting and locking down of traits on my end, the "work" part. Here is a 5hzC I found:
I used a non dominant male to produce an F2 generation and it let the hazeC shine through even more:
Now I'm going to go several direction because as you know we can't always predict the outcome.
1- I may use the original C5 clone selected by nevil in late '80s as they've made their way to the us, to lock down more specific traits.
2- I may use the original A5 clone to complete the union of A and C.
3- I may take it to F3 or F4 to put in more of my own work to separate myself from you and nevil.
4- I may use NH and NHM to find some plants that are heavily influenced by haze A to complete the union of A and C.
5- I may take the NH or NHM to F3 or F4 to find my plant and put in work and further separate myself from those before me before I try to combine A and C.
So it is paramount that I start with the least muddied seed lines, and for God's sake I don't want any damn skunk in it! Not to mention alot of this is based on things nevil has said and your guys AC theory, I specifically want A and C in the line, also to be doubled up on C in one way or another.
That is the basics, I could go deeper and type much much more but I think I've made my point.
I'd think eventually I will find a stud from this work and I would have a clear concious using him.
What do you think shantibaba???
And think I'm going with that method . I would like to make it a stable strain I can call my own but I figure it will take at least eight generations . No curbing with this one unless some thing just amazing is found with in the breeding program , hope it's all so good I don't have to cube
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Elmer Bud
Banned
Hello there shanibabba,
Firstly it's nice to see you engaging in your forum. My personal goal is based on yours and nevil AC theory. However rather than just use a single plant from mns as you say many companies do with no real work. I am doing plenty of hunting and locking down of traits on my end, the "work" part. Here is a 5hzC I found:
I used a non dominant male to produce an F2 generation and it let the hazeC shine through even more:
Now I'm going to go several direction because as you know we can't always predict the outcome.
1- I may use the original C5 clone selected by nevil in late '80s as they've made their way to the us, to lock down more specific traits.
2- I may use the original A5 clone to complete the union of A and C.
3- I may take it to F3 or F4 to put in more of my own work to separate myself from you and nevil.
4- I may use NH and NHM to find some plants that are heavily influenced by haze A to complete the union of A and C.
5- I may take the NH or NHM to F3 or F4 to find my plant and put in work and further separate myself from those before me before I try to combine A and C.
So it is paramount that I start with the least muddied seed lines, and for God's sake I don't want any damn skunk in it! Not to mention alot of this is based on things nevil has said and your guys AC theory, I specifically want A and C in the line, also to be doubled up on C in one way or another.
That is the basics, I could go deeper and type much much more but I think I've made my point.
I'd think eventually I will find a stud from this work and I would have a clear concious using him.
What do you think shantibaba???
G `day TH
A and C .
I have a cut that is AG13 X HPH x Haze AC pollen . I have the Pez clone from Washington x Haze AC pollen .
I also have the C5 x Jack Herer .
AG13 X C5 x Malawi was good . ECSD x Nevil`s Haze was also very good .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
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topheavy420
New member
Thanks! It sounds as if you've got some great goals and solid breeding plans and they sound like something I'd like to grow and smoke myself! Please do share as you go along on your journey.
topheavy420
New member
Those all sound pretty fockin sweet man! I'm assuming someone who possess those cuts got some pollen from sb? Great thinking on their part to pair them.
PEZ is something I see more and more of. I had it quite a few years ago but lost it. Again pairing that with AC pollen is a great idea and more along what I'm thinking only producing my own male for crosses in the future.
topheavy420
New member
Well thanks sb, quite the compliment coming from you. I had meant nothing other than what I said; it's nice to see you around and posting so cheers to that or skol as I like to say!
Your input is invaluable as who knows these sire lines better than you and nevil. So I'll eventually put up a thread in the breeders section to follow progress so please do drop in sometime.
I don't want the A5 and C5 to be the basis of the work, mearly a compliment as many have them now and are throwing pollen at them ten ways from sunday. I may not end up using them at all. I need to familiarize myself with them first as I've never grown them and I hear they can be challenging even for a veteran.
This is a great time for an up and coming breeder, so much access to so many genetics like a and C 5. Skunk man released ancestral skunk which predates even what he sold to nevil (I bought LOTS of them). He's going to do his final work on his old haze beans also and release those too. Even the 98 cut of ssh that won the hat trick is available to those who seek hard enough, so those jack herer lovers can try and recreate. So I've been building quite the collection and bulking numbers and refining practices ect ect
Great times ahead, I'm glad you have this forum as ic can be too busy at times and would rather document alot of the work here, especially that originates from you.
Skol
T
Marcus_in_the_Darkus
Well-known member
Although I have nowhere the experience or time in the game as most of you and don't want to come off as presumptuous, my breeding goal is to recreate the NYC haze, or something close to it. Funny, I've never even smoked it but have heard so much about it that I have an ideal I want to breed towards. Needs to be a super high-quality haze, trippy, "leave that church smell lingering in the room long after the spliff was smoked," and have a wonderful incense smell to the herb. Many seek this goal, and some are trying to recreate the original haze recipe from the 1960s. I think the easier way is to start with the Haze A and C genetics that are already out there, because that is surely the source of the NYC haze.
My theory is that the NYC haze, on which the Dominicans had a locked-down, vertically integrated operation, is an Nl5xHzA cut. While Nevil never made the seeds commercially available, they were available to well-funded, high-volume buyers with whom he did business in the Cannabis Castle days. I think that a well-organized Dominican syndicate got hold of Nl5HzA beans and stumbled upon a remarkable pheno. Many others feel the NYC haze was a Neville's Haze cut. Either way, I need something with a fair amount of Haze A so I can find plants with concentrated Haze A characteristics in the F2s.
Haze A is why I grew Angel's Breathe. Based on what Scorpion posted, I calculated Angel's Breathe to be 37.5% Haze A and 12.5% Haze C. I made seeds using my best, haziest AB female:
I dusted that plant with pollen from a sativa-leaning AB male:
About 7 weeks ago I planted some of the seeds and will flower out a few of the F2s in a few weeks when my Grail Widow grow is complete. Here's a current pic of the Angel's Breathe F2s:
So, while I'm still going to flower the AB F2s to see what I get, it would appear that I should have started somewhere else in my quest for Haze A, based on what Shanti posted above. I guess the leathery, spicy, metallic smells coming from some of my AB plants were coming from the Afghan rather than from Haze A.
So please allow me to re-ask this question that has been asked here on the MNS forum for years, openly and in PMs: What strains have the most Haze A? What about the Doors? Is the Nl5Hz mum Haze A or Haze C? This question has been asked repeatedly and it would be great if Shanti could give us a definitive answer. For that matter, considering there has been so much interest in this, and Shanti presumably still has Nl5HzA seeds from Nevil's old stock as well as an Nl5HzA mother of Neville's Haze, maybe he can make us a strain that brings out the Haze A characteristics.
I'd also love to see Shanti do some more with his MM genetics, such as crossing them with hazes to make super sativas.
To summarize, even though my project isn't anywhere near as far along as TH420's, it's an example of how I could have made better choices of I was armed with the correct genetic pedigree information. No regrets on the Angel's Breathe grow, though, they were wonderful plants.
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blackberry
New member
I know this is a bit tabu here, but if you S1 the 5HzA cut (since it is a F1) you probably can get a very close female version of the haze A. If you pop enough seeds.
Elmer Bud
Banned
Although I have nowhere the experience or time in the game as most of you and don't want to come off as presumptuous, my breeding goal is to recreate the NYC haze, or something close to it. Funny, I've never even smoked it but have heard so much about it that I have an ideal I want to breed towards. Needs to be a super high-quality haze, trippy, "leave that church smell lingering in the room long after the spliff was smoked," and have a wonderful incense smell to the herb. Many seek this goal, and some are trying to recreate the original haze recipe from the 1960s. I think the easier way is to start with the Haze A and C genetics that are already out there, because that is surely the source of the NYC haze.
My theory is that the NYC haze, on which the Dominicans had a locked-down, vertically integrated operation, is an Nl5xHzA cut. While Nevil never made the seeds commercially available, they were available to well-funded, high-volume buyers with whom he did business in the Cannabis Castle days. I think that a well-organized Dominican syndicate got hold of Nl5HzA beans and stumbled upon a remarkable pheno. Many others feel the NYC haze was a Neville's Haze cut. Either way, I need something with a fair amount of Haze A so I can find plants with concentrated Haze A characteristics in the F2s.
Haze A is why I grew Angel's Breathe. Based on what Scorpion posted, I calculated Angel's Breathe to be 37.5% Haze A and 12.5% Haze C. I made seeds using my best, haziest AB female:
I dusted that plant with pollen from a sativa-leaning AB male:
About 7 weeks ago I planted some of the seeds and will flower out a few of the F2s in a few weeks when my Grail Widow grow is complete. Here's a current pic of the Angel's Breathe F2s:
So, while I'm still going to flower the AB F2s to see what I get, it would appear that I should have started somewhere else in my quest for Haze A, based on what Shanti posted above. I guess the leathery, spicy, metallic smells coming from some of my AB plants were coming from the Afghan rather than from Haze A.
So please allow me to re-ask this question that has been asked here on the MNS forum for years, openly and in PMs: What strains have the most Haze A? What about the Doors? Is the Nl5Hz mum Haze A or Haze C? This question has been asked repeatedly and it would be great if Shanti could give us a definitive answer. For that matter, considering there has been so much interest in this, and Shanti presumably still has Nl5HzA seeds from Nevil's old stock as well as an Nl5HzA mother of Neville's Haze, maybe he can make us a strain that brings out the Haze A characteristics.
I'd also love to see Shanti do some more with his MM genetics, such as crossing them with hazes to make super sativas.
To summarize, even though my project isn't anywhere near as far along as TH420's, it's an example of how I could have made better choices of I was armed with the correct genetic pedigree information. No regrets on the Angel's Breathe grow, though, they were wonderful plants.
G `day Folks
If Angel breath is Mango Hz x Afghan Haze does it not get haze A from the Mango ?
AG13 or A5 are the only 50 % Haze A crosses i know of .
A5 is the more potent from what my friends tell me .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
la resistance verte
Member
i just start a ag13 x c5 malawi
you re right elmer, a5 is the best of the bunch
you re right elmer, a5 is the best of the bunch