Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[Donald Mallard]

That is a stunner Kanga.

I think it is no coincidence that one of the very finest cultivars of cannabis (Highland Oaxacan Gold) comes from the same place where horticulture and plant breeding first developed to an advanced level. There are no large mammals native to the southern Pacific uplands of Mexico, no sheep, no cows, they didn't have the horse, buffalo/bullock, chicken or pig either, but they did have excellent soil, a greenhouse climate and a few native plants with potential. One of the was a wild grass called Teosinte and from that they bred Maize (Corn) and it became their staple crop.

Now, given that the Mexican Indians had plant breeding skills and advanced horticulture, it is a small step to envisage them growing the hemp introduced by the Spanish and over 3-400 years they created Highland Oaxacan Gold which is the biggest yielding traditional cultivar by far, DJ Short mentions it being the biggest yielding traditional line and in my experience, it outyields modern varieties indoors but with longer flowering time.

They took Teosinte which grew tiny, almost inedible kernels and bred Maize with grows huge very edible ears of kernels.

They took Spanish hemp which grew almost unsmokeable flowers and lots of fibre and bred Highland Oaxacan Gold which grows huge very smokeable flowers.

Other regions of Mexico also had advanced horticulture and bred their own cannabis breeds, Sam the Skunkman and others try to tell everyone it all began in California in the 60s and 70s but without the input of genes from Mexico, those hippies would have had to start from scratch. We don't give enough credit to the Mexicans, they were breeding cannabis into all kinds of distinct lines centuries before California was even a State of the US. I know people associate Mexican weed with shitty brick these days, but that is purely the fault of the US govt, before the war on drugs began in the 70s, Mexican weed was superb, there were countless distinct and special cultivars - Zacatecas Purple from a remote high valley near Aguascalientes, Guerran Green from the Gulf Coast, the Acapulco/Oaxacan Golds of the Southern Pacific Sierra Madre, the related Michoacan Brown Spears from a little further north in the Sierra Madres and the crazy Sonoran desert weed that made the Yaqui Indians fierce warriors for Pancho Villa.

All the great Mexican genes of the past would still survive if the US hadn't sponsored the Paraquat spraying of pretty much the whole of Mexico in the late 70s. By 1980, the Mexicans had nothing left pretty much, we know they had lost almost everything because of the infamous DEA case where they caught the largest drug kingpin in Mexico who had been importing growers and seeds from California to setup big grows in Sonora in the NW.

I'm pretty sure California has yet to produce anything as good as the best that the Mexicans were enjoying for centuries.

they had cannabis there 3-4000 years ago , are u sure about that man?? doesnt sound like the right timeline to me ...

 

[bfskinner]

I grew a pack of fet's 303 indoors and it was a disaster, just didn't want to flower properly and then hermied.



Haze Special is NL x Haze, it's very varied but has some killer phenos. It might be NL x Nev's Haze or related to Nev's Haze in some other way, not sure, it's very similar to Nev's Haze is some phenos.

KC is from Brazil, he used to work at Positronics, KC used a few strains from Brazil, maybe he gave the strain to Shanti that went into Widow? Certainly KC was living in Holland in the 90s when Shanti was.

The NL/Haze part of it is Nev's haze but from a looong time ago now I believe... It is crossed with the "606" which is a breeding part in kc's line's not available for seed sale. Obviously the nl in the nevs haze could make certain phenos turn purple, but I have never seen any significant indica expressions in any kc haze. The purple reminds me of descriptions of purple haze from way back which I have never smoked....the most powerfull but more trippy like mushrooms than speedy/lsd feeling of the other phenos.

I wish the dude wasn't such a recluse, he seems to have a fairly good rep amongst other breeders. Customers often have germ problems I think because vendors buy up double the amount of his cheaper seeds and they don't keep them in ideal conditions.

I think the "606" itself has some very cool sativa characteristics which should be in a lot more peoples hands.

Edit: Sorry about getting the chem story wrong upthread....I have been told the same story by the internet and the local peeps who have og clones rockin. As far as it being sat dom I would agree, very stretchy airy buds but rock hard with white trics. It does have a significant body stone, but it is more of a stimulating feeling than tiring,

 

[zigzag]

..........

 

[Dr. Purpur]

They found it in Pyramids, right? It was probably growing in a secluded valley in Iran about 7000 years ago

 

[bushweed]

Great post on the Mexican cannabis cultivation bh! You just need to look at the way Hollywood has portrayed these people to understand the point bh was making.

LOL! need new glasses Donald?

 

[british_hempire]

It was 3-400, assuming cannabis was introduced to Central America in the 1500s. No idea what the Spanish hemp was like but it was grown for fibre for rope, sailcloth etc. We know very high grade cannabis was around in Mexico in 1905 when a group of Mormons moved to Sonora, so in those 400 ish years the Mexicans bred really strong dope out of what was probably only good for rope. I doubt much study of Mexican cannabis traditions has ever been done so I have no idea how long after the introduction of hemp they had Oaxacan Gold, might have been 100 years, might have been 300, who knows?

 

[joshuahazen]

There is every possibility that these high potency strains were already there, after all it is well known that hallucinegens were a major part of mayan and other indigenous societies of that region. Are there any theories on that

 

[joshuahazen]

looks like they had their own bomb, long before the spaniards.

MARIJUANA IN THE NEW WORLD

According to Richard L. Lingeman in his book Drugs from A to Z, page 146, "Marijuana smoking was known by the Indians before Columbus." After the Spanish conquest in 1521 the Spaniards recorded that the Aztecs (Mayans) used marijuana.

The present day Cuna Indians of Panama use marijuana as a sacred herb and the Cora Indians of the Sierra Madre Occidental of Mexico smoke marijuana in this course of their sacred ceremonies.

In the Ritual Use of Cannabis Sativa L by William A Emboden, Jr., pages 229 and 231, is the following: "A particularly interesting account of a Tepehua (no relationship to "Tepecana") Indian ceremony with cannabis was published in 1963 by the Mexican ethnologist Roberto William Garcia of the University of Veracruz, northernmost branch of the Maya language family.

"In his account of Teehua religion and ritual, William Garcia (1963:215-21) describes in some detail a communal curing ceremony focused on a plant called santa rose, "The Herb Which Makes One Speak", which he identified botanically as Cannabis Sativa: According to Garcia it is worshipped as an earth deity and is thought to be alive and comparable to a piece of the heart of God."

Source: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/potbible.htm

 

[biteme]

and as far as that maize or tesonite, i grew up on a family farm and my brother recently retired from farming so we are at least aware of this strain of corn. the issue came into the picture this past summer again. corn is often planted here the way flowers are planted in other places. one local restaurant planted a row of corn out front and the stalks proceeded to shoot many, many ears similar to pics bh posted. the photos were first in the local papers but went national before long. my brother laughed at the publicity. this technology has been around for a long time and is currently in the possession of pioneer, the largest seed corn breeder in the world. these genetics could provide the same yield of corn using only 10% of the ground currently in production. but i doubt if you will see these genetics for sale anytime soon and the reason? turmoil. in spite of people starving in places and in spite of growing energy needs as a couple among many reasons, the markets are not prepared to handle the impact and to prevent a mess they are not on the market. peace-biteme

 

[Kangativa]

Thanx BH.....Here is some more pics of it in its more more Natural form, unfortunetly the big one got hit by a storm and I lost it

This one was put in a bit later and wasnt as big.

 

[matthewriot]

Kanga, that is just gorgeous. That's a strain I've been wanting to work with in it's unhybridized form for a while. I had some oaxacan gold x chocolate thai for a while which turned out really amazing, and it made me want to delve into the oaxacan gold on its own. What's the smells and tastes like?

 

[southpaw]

Damn Kanga, I have to make it a point to avoid your pics in fear of excessive drooling . I just cracked some old Oaxacan x Choc Thai, got one female and one male so far. I still have a few really old Oaxacan Gold seeds from 1980. They were gifted to me a couple of years ago. I managed to crack a couple of those a year ago but one didn't make it past the seedling stage. The second one turned hermie. I would be happy with just one nice female for head stash.


Great thread btw, lots of good info.

sp

 

[british_hempire]

Looks great Kanga, wish I had your climate to play with! We have tons of snow here right now!

The Oaxacan I kept for a while smelt like pine needles drizzled in gasoline, beautiful smell, but it grew male flowers so I got rid of it in the end.

I still want a stable non-intersexed Oaxacan, one day I'll find one. For the moment, I'm contenting myself with growing some Colombian Gold.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

i would tend to believe that if the Spanish actually brought cannabis to the new world that there would be some high quality stuff with them. There was a very large muslim influence in Spain during that period and one would assume that they had the fine tradition of hash smoking.

That and there was already a tradition of tobacco smoking in the americas it would tend to think that they would take to smoking cannabis quite naturally.

Its My understanding, that all new Spanish Navy ships are now fitted with glass bottoms. So the New Spanish Navy, can see the old Spanish Navy.

Day 32 Headband clones.

 

[matthewriot]

I'm not sure how much this REALLY has to do with the Ultimate Haze thread, but since there's been some mention of Columbians...Her'es my CHemdawg D x Columbian Gold... It's kinda stunted as I stated her out but left newbs to tend to her. Then an Albert Walker...Chocolate Thai by DrawOH...and some grape Krush x Purple Thai. I'm planning working all of these with the best NYC Haze male

 

[matthewriot]

Also, here's some shots of the NYC Haze/Uptown Haze/The Piff seedlings... reallllly odd stuff! Seedlings looks really bizarre to me.

There are two different sets of seeds here from two separate selections.

H-1 - Lots more variety in this batch.... very few more indica looking leaves but mostly sativa

H-2 - These tend to look much or Haze in phenotype than the rest,

20 of Each were cracked, 12 of the H2's didn't make it, 20 of the H-1's made it...Just got more H-2 beans in.

 

[Mr. Alkaline]

I've come to speak only once, then to go back to where I came from

Nevil,

Your goal is to get a female that you had before(the original), so that you can finally 'clone it',...like you did not do before....at the onset of this adventure.
(....Something that improves upon b.c.)

Apparently, A+C males were not real/pure to begin with, whereas the Org. mother haze had reflected something of pureness.(in your mind/belief)

I'd love to question you under hypnosis, to the end of asking/finding, that original ancestor which... you'd subconsciously, and mostly... identify as the ultimate source of purity, posessing both--back and forward--improvability, needed to acheive 'Grail' thingamajigs.
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I've learned how some legendary ancestors are lost via the pre-sumption that ye can just keep cloning a spectacular, tangent hybridization from the Source seedlot.....and still have a firm foundation upon which one may confidently and forever manage to somehow use to build 'grails' upon grails.

Gosh,...I'm not trying to talk down to you here.

Listen, question...?What colors ranges do calyxes of... Purple/Black contain???
-and, can you get 'black' from red, much easier than you could a 'red' from a true plum-black?

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Family Recipes and Heritages
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Thanks for putting up with me.
-I study meso-american ancestors in the forum where I live.
-I study how colored calyxes contribute to bluish trichome vapor upon combustion.

After 4 long years, our group has returned to a gloss black seed, and a very plum-black calyx.

In my resident forum, we all have arrived at the belief that these pre-grail ancestor lots, actually do Not improve any when B.Crossed....rather, that the whole reality of these outdoor ancestors exists inside the purely outside, incross. It is the Purity Protection that ultimately traces taxonomic credit back to a steadfast reliance upon the female plant as the only real identity of a seedlot, as well as it's name and ultimate genetic/genomic retro-engineering base.
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A Red tipped calyx can come from a plum tipped matriarch.
A plum tipped calyx can come from a solid shaded, plum calyx.
A plum Black pigment absorbs more light than a red pigmentation.
A Grail cup is dipped in a grail substrate.
A grail substrate is sourced from an ultimate substance.

Nevil,
...are you not actually looking for a lost substance?, and would you not, then be seeking to refine and stabilize this lost substance, and call it True Grail,...from which an Ultimate Grail would later be called, and spawed/marketed???

 

[matthewriot]

I'm a little interested in what you have to say about colouration of calyxes, however the whole plum/black to red thing is rather a bit confusing. I've worked with colours in cannabis for quite a while and I'm not sure I'm taking it out of context that you're speaking about cannabis when you're talking about colouration of trichomes or if it's some metaphorical tangent. Maybe simplifying your studies a bit so people who aren't involved with it can understand from an outsiders point of view what you're talking about. Like the part about red tipped calyxes, etc... do you only study the colours of the tips of calyxes or the plant as a whole?

 

[cannatari]

I like what you're saying, Mr. Alkaline. Thank you for sharing you insight.

Care to share a link to your forum with us?

A theory I'm pondering that maybe you could share some light on:

Let's suppose that the progeny from an S1 seed produce 5 major phenotyopes. Will each of those phenotypes produce progeny that resemble themselves or are they forever bound to produce the same 5 major phenos regardless of their mother's phenotype.

If Haze originated from a selfed seed and the above is true, then that would mean that no matter what selection of Haze you made in a breeding program, it can only contribute the spread of phenotypes to it's progeny and not the parental traits by inheritance.

It could be argued that Haze A and C males produce different results but since they are male plants they would have to in fact be Haze crosses and it is the traits of their male parent that allow their progeny to inherit traits of the male parent.

You said that "Apparently the Haze A+C were not pure to begin with...". I'm curious why you say this. Is it only based on the fact that breeders are not able to re-create Haze in it's original form?

 

[OzzyDioDude]

Mr.Alkaline please enlighten us to your way of making crosses.