Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

[kylebroflovski]

Darwin I understand your points regarding inbreeding possibly being the culprit for the loss in vigor. I also understand why you say Hempys conclusion could be attributable to something else. As I said before you definitely are well educated, as you said however "you need experience in all areas, not just a lot in one to be able to back up your opinions in this area, but hey that's just my opinion.." I agree with your words there, that is why I mention how much experience posters like Hempy and myself have.

And also why I get sick of listening to kids fresh out of UC Davis with a masters in plant genetics who are telling me with ultimate authority that feminized seeds are not going to have any negative effects on the plant population (this is not a direct reference to you, I don't know if you went to UC Davis).

This is the only fact I can count on, humans are for the most part a very egotistical race. We feel that our actions do not have adverse efeects on the earth, that our technologies do not kill us, that our medicines cure us but as time passes from each of those things we find that these things do many of the VERY harmful things our intuition was initially telling us. Climate change/global warming is REAL, cell phones cause cancer, and modern medicine makes us comfortable while it kills us. Thats my opinion

With regards to feminized seeds, there are many educated farmers that see red flags. Not ALL of them are delusional (some certainly are heh) yet most see these warnings.

Most of us here(except Jesse maybe) it would seem are just saying that MAYBE we should be careful and take this slowly, there is still alot to learn on the subject.

With regards to your bias it seems that you possess none of the uncertainty that alot of concerned grower/breeders do towards feminized seed. This makes me think that there are other motivating factors ($) (?) contributing ($) (?) to your strongly oriented opinons.

I could be wrong, I was today like twice already. If I'am wrong and feminized seeds are OK then well nothing happens to the evolution of the plant and I will gladly say Darwins a f ing genius he KNEW it all along. If you are wrong the consequences are a bit more severe. Please tell me you at least agree with this.? _~ KB

 

[resinbud]

I don't have to worry about EVER!!!

Its me.... I only want the best seeds I know about, and that is MNS all the way. I have two awesome clones I chose myself out of more than Fifty females, and I enjoyed every second of it. These mothers are superior in all ways possible, and I wouldn't grow any other way. MW/Af x Hz. If you want to grow female seeds, do it. If you love the challenge of thinning the week and keeping the strong than by all means grow F1s. I have a certain style of growing, and why change what works. Clones of superior females, are by far the best way, but if done with the best genes for female seeds should pose No problem. from a genetic point. It is how the plant is bred that determines how it will turn out in my opinion. If you read what I said earlier, all plants have specific DNA fragments with X and Y in both chromosome, so why would it matter anyways? just my opinion. peace, resinbud

 

[bushweed]

I remember reading a 70s grower's guide by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal, which stated that hops could be grafted on to a Cannabis plant to produce psychoactive material that didn't look like pot. Haven't heard much about that since then, but recall that this was possible because the two were closely related.

I'm fundamentally a chardonnay luddite (he says glued to the computer), so I'd stay well away from Feminized seeds out of a principle. But seriously genetic manipulation does sound a bit Big Pharmaceutical for me to be interested. But if they're selling them in different color schemes - I'll rush out and get some right now.

 

[krk]

Well your just a crack up jesse ,, i addressed somethings hempy said that he reckoned he had no proof that its useful ,, he saw proof but selectively ..

Im not wasting my time with jerks like you jesse , you must think your a moderator around here or something they way you treat people .. personally im not a fan of it and think you should do as youve said ,, be more respectful to members ,, specially long standing ones ...
lets face it man you just want an arguement ,, your not getting one from me...
im out ...

Ya that loser gives this place, a house idiot. The guy who is never going to agree with anyone except shanti. Picks fights with good members, just to see if they will leave this forums. Fuck this brown nose asswiper, Don why give him the pleasure of having you leave... He is the ass who should go water his plants, if he even has any...

There should be a Mod here to take care of jerks like jesse who proves over and over that he is the fight instigator.

 

[krk]

But if they're selling them in different color schemes - I'll rush out and get some right now.

Now thats funny...

 

[resinbud]

I don't have to worry about EVER!!!

Its me.... I only want the best seeds I know about, and that is MNS all the way. I have two awesome clones I chose myself out of more than Fifty females, and I enjoyed every second of it. These mothers are superior in all ways possible, and I wouldn't grow any other way. MW/Af x Hz. If you want to grow female seeds, do it. If you love the challenge of thinning the week and keeping the strong than by all means grow F1s. I have a certain style of growing, and why change what works. Clones of superior females, are by far the best way, but if done with the best genes for female seeds should pose No problem. from a genetic point. It is how the plant is bred that determines how it will turn out in my opinion. If you read what I said earlier, all plants have specific DNA fragments with X and Y in both chromosome, so why would it matter anyways? just my opinion. peace, resinbud

 

[Namaskar]

Perhaps this might help to some of you

'Kompolti Hybrid TC' (registered in 1983) is a three-way-cross hybrid in which two selections from Chinese origin, 'Kinai Kétlaki' (dioecious) and 'Kinai Egylaki' (monoecious), and 'Kompolti' are combined. The first step of the crossing ('Kinai dioecious' x 'Kinai monoecious'), where the monoecious parent acts as pollen spender, gives a unisexual, almost pure female F1 , called 'Kinai Uniszex'. This unisexual progeny can be considered as an analogue for male sterile breeding lines. It is subsequently used as female parent in the crossing ('Kinai Uniszex' x 'Kompolti') which produces the commercial three-way-cross hybrid 'Kompolti Hybrid TC', which has again a 50/50 sex ratio.

Namaste

 

[DarwinsBulldog]

Most of us here(except Jesse maybe) it would seem are just saying that MAYBE we should be careful and take this slowly, there is still alot to learn on the subject.

yeah i know what you're saying and i agree with you, i definitely am not suggesting we stop using males or anything like that in the future for breeding, i just think we should stereotype fem seeds, yes there are people out there using them for the wrong reasons, but plenty who aren't, and there are different mechanisms in which to create them which will affect their quality. there's definitely still a lot to learn

With regards to your bias it seems that you possess none of the uncertainty that alot of concerned grower/breeders do towards feminized seed. This makes me think that there are other motivating factors ($) (?) contributing ($) (?) to your strongly oriented opinons.

i don't know where you got the idea that money was a motivating factor behind why i am "pro fem seeds", and am actually offended you accuse me of such a thing. i could give a flying hoot about making money off people the same way others do with fem seeds... clearly you haven't read many of my threads of posts on my breeding and preservation projects. i'm going to be working my arse off (as i already am) breeding up seed stock for landrace strains and then giving most of it out to people FOR FREE... in fact for less than free, i have to pay postage, grow costs etc. i'm interested in quality work and gaining respect when breeding cannabis in the future... money i could give a toss about, as long as i have a roof and somewhere to grow i'll be more than happy.

I could be wrong, I was today like twice already. If I'am wrong and feminized seeds are OK then well nothing happens to the evolution of the plant and I will gladly say Darwins a f ing genius he KNEW it all along. If you are wrong the consequences are a bit more severe. Please tell me you at least agree with this.? _~ KB

even if you find i'm right in the end lol that leaves me far from being a genius... i agree with you yes mate, i just fear you're all a bit more afraid about things than you need to be. but maybe i'm wrong.

 

[Kangativa]

Males, males and more males. That is what you need to breed good strong plants. I look at my males as the most important part of my breeding program.
I always use my Oaxacan male and MM male for my cross breeding and to do that I need to grow lots of males.
I am not going to get to involved in this discussion, because I did not have a super education and my knowledge of the MJ plant has only come about from yrs of growing it and I see from some posts that is not good enough....lol
If you really want to see what can happen when we stuff with the natural progress of plants and animals, have a look at the American Quarter Horse industry and see what has happened to them.
As for inbreeding, well I think Thai landrace strains have been doing that for thousands of yrs and they where at one stage, before man had his say, one of the strongest strains around without any bad genes in its structure.

Darwin.....Hey mate do you know how many years my MM has been inbred....does it look like it has lost its vigour and Bushweed will tell you about it's strength,......and you know I am not having a go at you just pointing out a couple of things Ohh and one other thing I bet my arse that fem seeds cannot be made from the MM or the Oaxacan and I base this fact on experiance.....They are real plants

 

[kylebroflovski]

Maybe Your Not a Bad Dog After All.

IMO what seems most important when debating is to learn. I like being wrong, it means I see things in a new light. I love new lights so do my plants. I'm here to learn first and foremost, as are most of the members.

With regard to your forum history, I'am an ignoramous, completely unaware of your contributions, yes. I spend ALOT of time in my garden and in the gardens of sick friends and associates. If your motivations are of a pure nature then accept my appologies regarding my comment about $'s.

Perhaps also you are right about my fear, maybe I have unnecessary fears. I'am full of fear. I worry NOW about where this is going to leave us 20 years in the future? I wonder NOW will we in 20 years be sitting around reminiscing about dioecious cannabis? Probably NOT , I might be over reacting but it's better IMO to err on the side of caution whenever dealing with mother nature. IMO no breeder should put these seeds in the hands of mankind until we know that in the long run they will be kind to man. _~ KB

 

[JessE]

Darwin you make a good point about scientific theory and how other variables could possibly be the reason for Hempy's loss of vigor. But don't you think that your OPINIONS should be backed by more then 6 years of lecture, and studies of how hops are the closest living relative to cannabis?

I myself have been growing for more then 20 years. Hempy sounds like he's been at it for quite a while as well. Who has solid info on the subject? Is it people with lab coats? No it's people with dirt (or coco) under their nails. RC Clarke might be the exception but I know he spent much time with THE plant.

My point is this Darwin. The people that are making discoveries about OUR plant are not sitting in classrooms discussing or the ones debating about recessive genes, they are the ones planting seeds observing how those genes are matching up.

So Darwin I appreciate all of the book learning you have done and I really do agree with your and every scientists definition of the scientific theory which Hempys findings do not qualify under. However I think his observation COULD BE a possibility.

Since you are familiar with the process of scientific theory you are also aware of bias. It does appear that alot of your OPINIONS may be biased.???


No offense Darwin you don't really seem to know what your talking about as it pertains to OUR plant. You have a very good grasp of words that make you sound like an authority on the subject however. In my humble opinion this forum needs another college educated expert with limited hands on experience as much as we need Shanti to start making feminized seeds.

Hi Kyle,
You know I think you're a dangerous man my friend! Why? Because you've got the ability to think for yourself, and in my opinion this is one of the most valuable weapons God, Allah, Buddha, Shiva gifted man kind. There are those within the community who hide behind a veil of botanical terms, some of which may be confusing for the majority, or even impressive, simply because they are not ordinary, every day words used to the extent where they are common knowledge or place.

Males, males and more males. That is what you need to breed good strong plants. I look at my males as the most important part of my breeding program.
I always use my Oaxacan male and MM male for my cross breeding and to do that I need to grow lots of males.
I am not going to get to involved in this discussion, because I did not have a super education and my knowledge of the MJ plant has only come about from yrs of growing it and I see from some posts that is not good enough....lol
If you really want to see what can happen when we stuff with the natural progress of plants and animals, have a look at the American Quarter Horse industry and see what has happened to them.
As for inbreeding, well I think Thai landrace strains have been doing that for thousands of yrs and they where at one stage, before man had his say, one of the strongest strains around without any bad genes in its structure.

Darwin.....Hey mate do you know how many years my MM has been inbred....does it look like it has lost its vigour and Bushweed will tell you about it's strength,......and you know I am not having a go at you just pointing out a couple of things Ohh and one other thing I bet my arse that fem seeds cannot be made from the MM or the Oaxacan and I base this fact on experiance.....They are real plants

Hi Kanga,
Nice post, one which Im willing to bet reflects the thoughts of many who feel they are not equiped to get into any kind of depth due to the smoke screen presented by those who further perpetuate the feminized scam by means of botanical terms, theory and the like. What you do seem to have is common sense, and I say to you that as long as you follow your heart and use some common sense that your opinions are just as worth while as anyone elses. You do have quite a bit of experience growing in my opinion, its pretty evident within the pictures you present. So with a little bit of confidence I think you would be surprised at what you have to offer on the subject.

For example, below is a quote which exemplifys those who would like us all to believe they have some kind of knowledge the rest of us do not possess. But with a little bit of common sense Im willing to bet you can suss out the obvious, just like everyone else. According to Darwinbulldogs genetic theory, the same kind of loss of vigor exemplified by hempys S1s should IN GENETIC THEORY be found within the F2s as well. However just by looking at the pictures, we can see that is simply not the case is it? Thats a little something I like to call reality. Now what is the difference between those S1s and the F2s? Im willing to bet a good portion of folks reading this will be able to answer this question fairly easily.

To jesse and hempy - As with hempy’s experiment, he created S1 from one plant and with the same mum made F1s… the same proportion of loss in vigour he found in the S1s according to genetic theory should be found in his F2s… each of the F1 siblings would have a 50% chance of having a copy of any mutant allele that mum had that she gave to her S1 offspring. So once they the F1 siblings were mated with each other they’d produce F2 offspring that should have the same amount of loss in vigour (or mutant alleles doubled up) as the S1. THIS IS THE IMPARTIAL MATHS OF GENETICS.

 

[DarwinsBulldog]

IMO what seems most important when debating is to learn. I like being wrong, it means I see things in a new light. I love new lights so do my plants. I'm here to learn first and foremost, as are most of the members.

With regard to your forum history, I'am an ignoramous, completely unaware of your contributions, yes. I spend ALOT of time in my garden and in the gardens of sick friends and associates. If your motivations are of a pure nature then accept my appologies regarding my comment about $'s.

Perhaps also you are right about my fear, maybe I have unnecessary fears. I'am full of fear. I worry NOW about where this is going to leave us 20 years in the future? I wonder NOW will we in 20 years be sitting around reminiscing about dioecious cannabis? Probably NOT , I might be over reacting but it's better IMO to err on the side of caution whenever dealing with mother nature. IMO no breeder should put these seeds in the hands of mankind until we know that in the long run they will be kind to man. _~ KB

i agree with you 100% mate, and after having studied science for a long time i too enjoy being wrong, learning more and having my knowledge and opinions evolve through time. there's no other way to have it

no apology is needed my friend, i apologise too and respect that i am still a young and new to the game and definitely don't know everything (far from it), i may consider myself book smart but yes i admit i have much less experience growing than people like yourself, hempy, jesse, kanga etc and for now there's nothing i can do about that than just keep at it lol but i'm never going to catch up to you all...

my aim is to just give back as much as i can to the community as well as work on my own ventures with breeding, i want to keep old lines pure and healthy and available to all so that we can preserve this plant. for the most part i'm sure i'll be using males (as i'm far from apposed to them). anyway i'm just going to leave it from here and keep my mouth shut on the subject.

For example, below is a quote which exemplifys those who would like us all to believe they have some kind of knowledge the rest of us do not possess. But with a little bit of common sense Im willing to bet you can suss out the obvious, just like everyone else. According to Darwinbulldogs genetic theory, the same kind of loss of vigor exemplified by hempys S1s should IN GENETIC THEORY be found within the F2s as well. However just by looking at the pictures, we can see that is simply not the case is it? Thats a little something I like to call reality. Now what is the difference between those S1s and the F2s? Im willing to bet a good portion of folks reading this will be able to answer this question fairly easily.

you've completely misunderstood what i was saying and presented as an argument jesse... i'm over arguing with you guys, it's getting none of us anywhere so i'm going to leave in peace.

i sincerely apologise to hempy and jesse and anyone else my comments may have offended and i do have a great deal of respect for the amount of time, effort and work you've put into the cannabis community. i hope to one day be at the same level.

darwin

 

[JessE]

Fem central: Safety in numbers?

As the thread has progressed, its easy to see the acquisition of new members who seem to have come to the forum for one purpose only. To reply in this thread, and present a smoke screen to the general forum in which they pretend others are ignorant, need to be educated, havent did their research etc. in an effort to defend the feminized seed trend. Coincidence? As the thread has progressed in the opposite direction of these folks positions, more members have surfaced, most of whom can be found pulling the same kind of shenanigans over at Icmag where the threads are censored, edited, closed, taken off subject, trolled etc. anytime the truth about this manner becomes too hot for the bank rollers to handle.

One thing that Ive noticed in life, is the veil of popularity associated with safety in numbers. Its trendy, popular in fact, to go with the what the majority seem to be doing in every day affairs from wearing clothes, too listening to a specific kind of music. Those who choose to think for themselves, or do their own thing, going against the status quo are often looked at as outsiders. And Im willing to bet quite a few of you can relate to this point in relation to your own experiences in life and what happens to those who do not go with the norm yourselves.

Safety in numbers can ultimately be the only sharade of hope those who support the feminized seed have left once the thread starts to run away from their positions. (Much as we starting to see occur now with those who have found the ambition to come forward and share their own thoughts which do not mirror the unfortunate supporters of the feminized trend). Which may explain why we're seeing the aforementioned newly acquired members coming to the forum for the express purpose of trying to defend the feminized seed trend. And which I believe may ultimately have been hempys point with the posting of the fem central.

When I look into my crystal ball,

The only hope I see for those who support the feminized seed trend in this thread, is safety in numbers. To present a mirage to the general forum that "the majority" are in fact in favor of trashing your beloved plant via means of manipulation. Using terms which most of you are not familiar with, which may or may not sound impressive depending on your level of experience or ability to think for yourselves. The topic of this thread is one which I feel is of great significance, which is the impact of the cannabis plant itself based off the ever increasing popular trend of the feminized seed product. If any of you truly love the plant, any potential danger should be taken seriously to its ultimate existence.

lol, I laugh because you genuinely get the impression something similar occurs haha.

Fem seed centreal.

 

[MasterTrooper]

It all about nature!

Hi all!
JessE, kylebroflovski, Nevil, Shanti. only to name a few!
At MNS nothing is about feminized seeds this is why I rock on MNS forum!

I hear once that now they can make human without using any human male DNA or sperm! They only need a Female!
Hey that sound really not fun for me!! What!!

Cannabis is really more then smoke! It all about life!
This plant I think never too sure but you care,
This plant my friend is the fastest biomass that grow in the world!

Like bamboo for example it grow faster but bamboo do not have the rich biomass to harvest!
the fastest biomass that grow in the world! Yes Cannabis

I'm not talking about the plant that grow the fastest but the biomass!

Question how many plants in the world have two different sex?

Its all about energy bout if we can not use it to is maximum potential it all because we're slave my friend Ya!

I hope by the time I live I can grow some to make ethanol to drive my diesel car! LOL

If you don't respect nature! You don't respect nothing That right nothing!

P.s. kylebroflovski I like your style! Kept the go work going my friend!

 

[Namaskar]

The topic of this thread is one which I feel is of great significance, which is the impact of the cannabis plant itself based off the ever increasing popular trend of the feminized seed product. If any of you truly love the plant, any potential danger should be taken seriously to its ultimate existence.

What danger are you talking about which has already happened with regular varieties which has invaded Jamaica

Todays Jamaican ganja field

Jamaican ganja field in the past 1983

Namaste

 

[englishrick]

jess your just as bad as me for sitting at the computer,,,i even use the iphone when im out,,comon man,,,you gota be glued to do this,,,flipin hek jess ,,,more pics??,,,comon man

monkeys work for peanuts,,any1 who can sti on the computer allday dont need money,,,what o you want out of this?,,all i want is good seeds,,,an im gettin amazing plants fom fem seeds,,,,my OG clone i found in S1 sees is the best plant ive ever seen in my life,,an ive got loads of them "hyped clones"

 

[hempy]

Now picture that with fields of fem seeds and lines with fem parents x to reg seeds think its not happend already think agine that has been my point from the very start of my prostest towards fem seeds.

The first wave of fem seeds were s1 for the most part the fem seeds are s1 and they are seeds of clones they select from other peoples f1 seed work becouse they cant produce the f1 seed with out the parent line how can they.

They also make s1 from things like trainwrech cheese bubba and more what advances ha.

Its a joke these people proclaim this fem movement to be the advancement of the species and they well most have done no testing even on the s1 they sell let alone generations of there work and if they gave a shit for the plant or the people paying for there seed they would of before puting it on the market.

People post and complain of hermis and or males showing up and those that are selling them now even there supporters use enviromental stress or grower error as the reson comical.

I dont care what any one tells me nature does not do something for the fun of it evelution is and always will be a means for nature to evolve fine tune and change to help any species survive.

Makeing hybrids is a tool were people breed faster flowering plants to long flowering plants and try and bring about a faster flowering plant yet work tawards keeing the affect of the longer flowering plant just an exsample thats breeding throwing chemicals and turning a fem into a male to then use its pollin to breed with is not breeding its science gone bad becouse they feel its improveing well how is it your going aginst a natreal proces evolved for millions of years.

Your throwing away a key part to the proces that is a male of the species you honestly think cannabis would not of removed the male threw its evelution if it was not needed in its survival.

Call my experement a joke call it what ever you like 18 seeds was and is a good number there stunted and nothing close to the f2s wich grew like the f1s.

In time real evedence research from people in this Industrie will come to lite and i can tell you it wont be prity or will it be useful to the fem sellers or there supporters in there arguments for fem seed.

 

[SnowHigh]

Males, males and more males. That is what you need to breed good strong plants. I look at my males as the most important part of my breeding program.
I always use my Oaxacan male and MM male for my cross breeding and to do that I need to grow lots of males.
I am not going to get to involved in this discussion, because I did not have a super education and my knowledge of the MJ plant has only come about from yrs of growing it and I see from some posts that is not good enough....lol
If you really want to see what can happen when we stuff with the natural progress of plants and animals, have a look at the American Quarter Horse industry and see what has happened to them.
As for inbreeding, well I think Thai landrace strains have been doing that for thousands of yrs and they where at one stage, before man had his say, one of the strongest strains around without any bad genes in its structure.

Darwin.....Hey mate do you know how many years my MM has been inbred....does it look like it has lost its vigour and Bushweed will tell you about it's strength,......and you know I am not having a go at you just pointing out a couple of things Ohh and one other thing I bet my arse that fem seeds cannot be made from the MM or the Oaxacan and I base this fact on experiance.....They are real plants

Experience and growing speaks volumes over education and ideas. Don't diminish your knowledge because it may be different then other peoples ideas.

 

[Namaskar]

Call my experement a joke call it what ever you like 18 seeds was and is a good number there stunted and nothing close to the f2s wich grew like the f1s.

Don't you have any link of this experiment of yours with pictures????

Namaste

 

[#_Allotropy_#]

What a fantastic thread hempy. Man some good people on these forums here.