A very poor way to try and sell seeds imo?

its hard to say but now that ive grown them both i think the jack may have been better, even the recent (2010) packs i looked through.

i made some seeds with them but i didnt store them in the fridge back then.
i wonder if any will germinate.
 
jack hairy said:
its hard to say but now that ive grown them both i think the jack may have been better, even the recent (2010) packs i looked through.

i made some seeds with them but i didnt store them in the fridge back then.
i wonder if any will germinate.
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G `day Jackie

Have you ever considered trying the Emperor`s Haze - C5 x Jack Herer?
Sounds like you are looking for a Haze dom Jack Herer ?
I`ve been growing a few the last year or so . Very happy with them .

I chucked ECSD x Nevil`s Haze pollen on them .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
ive seen you mention those, i wouldnt mind giving them a go.
ive tried some other jack crosses but didnt find any really worthwhile plants, like jaggen x jack herer and sannies jackberry f4.
being backcrossed to the C5 couldnt be such a bad thing, at least it is closest ive seen to what im looking for.
its a very similar flavor but more fumey, stronger, maybe its just a higher percentage of the similar terpine profile?
the difference that the C5 high has compared to any other plain thc, would be shifted even further as long as a equal amount of thc is still present. really maybe there was more because skunk and nl5 genes being present gave the chance for more resin.

so if C5 is the mother of jack and a skunk haze is the father, the difference between jack and SSH being different selections for the skunk haze male,
i think that is where a lot of improvement could be made.
maybe i am wrong.

i would like to know more about the selection of the skunk haze male, how many plants were used, how many were candidates, criteria used, criteria used in progeny testing, etc...

it is my belief that no one male is going to be the best, just different.
but some sure are better than others.
judging the outcome of two great pairings and determining the winner?
its more like a 50/50 coin toss or irrelevant at that point.
but since the jack herer set a pretty high benchmark,
that work isnt done until you can definitively say it is equal to or better than jack.
but even nevil said the cross wasnt better than the original C5.
so i dont know what to think.
collectively weve all grown more plants from his lines than he and shanti combined though...
at times i feel like ive let the world down, 2-3 times, until i can produce something like that again
:(
 
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jack hairy said:
except there was skunk and nl5 in the best weed ive seen that had a name, jack herer.
Click to expand...

We are growing that here now. Cannot say its the best ever though. Dunno what all the hype is about. I much prefer the old school sativas like Kerala ganja and Durban Poison. Or Kona Gold.
 
Man I loved me some Durban Poison, I haven't seen it in about 12 years.

Isn't Jack Herer just a pheno of SSH ? I'm sure someone creditable posted something about that.
 
BS, what are your jacks like, how many, when purchased, etc...

if you find a good one, you will smell it as soon as it gets resin on its leaves, right at week 3-4. if it is a good one, you will know long before you smoke it. if you dont find any like that, then you wont know what im talking about. the average jack herer is just ok. some even suck. case in point, i bought some jack herer at the cannabis cup in colorado in 15, some vendor from california. even though it smelled bland i thought id give it a chance in case it smoked better. nope. and this is what some people think jack herer is like just because thats what theyve seen called jack herer.
just like shanti was saying, sometimes what you see is what you know, then when something different comes along it challenges you and your beliefs that were based on half-truths.

dk, never heard anyone say JH is a pheno of SSH.
how would that even be possible? makes no sense to me.
they could be the same pedigree made with different plants, that makes sense to me.
they could even be something slightly different, we dont know.
but jack herer is a seedline, as is ssh.
im pretty sure C5 is the mother of jack herer.
its the father that is the question.
maybe C5 x SSH is worth a shot.
ive made that cross already, will grow them within the year.
 
Dkeppel said:
Man I loved me some Durban Poison, I haven't seen it in about 12 years.

Isn't Jack Herer just a pheno of SSH ? I'm sure someone creditable posted something about that.
Click to expand...

I know Nevil thought that it was closely related to SSH but the parents are definitely not the same.

Problem is you get a pack of seeds there is variation, good chance you won't find the keeper in just a few seeds. It brings me back to Shit my first pack I had this amazing female smelled kind of like a rose and just covered in resin but I grew 3-4 packs since and I still haven't found anything on that level.

Same I believe will happen with Jack Herrer that one in 100 or even 1 in 1,000 pheno is going to be above and beyond the average plants in the line. Just so happens we have yet to figure out how to make marijuana true breeding (other than cloning). It's certainly not just Mr. Nice, it's every breeder I've tried.

Really it's why someone like Subcool can start out with one male and a tent full of Calli clone onlys and people still love his seeds that cost $10 each!! Lol, some people are truly getting nice plants from this hack, truly makes me not want to buy seeds at all, I do want to find a nice male Critical Mass for sure though. The way I see it Critical Mass is basically the best one to cross to she's quick, she's big and she's not too weak, actually seen someone get CM tested at 19% THC solid but not the best. What I'm thinking is every clone only could be better with a cross to CM and selection.

You think about it OG, GSC, sure the weed is great but the yields are shit. Not too sure about GG#4 but she's the one I have right now, of course I don't expect every plant to be great like Subfool and his 5 packs, but 100-200 seeds I should find something bigger, better and quicker. If not it was cheaper than buying seeds. :D But the best thing about legalization is we will no longer have to buy seeds of the cup winners we'd just buy clones. The way I see it you sell 1,000 clones for $50 that's $50k a cup win will sell more than a thousand clones especially if you can protect it from resellers.

I'm going to at least try to breed better cuts, the competition is stiff but I might as well try, 3rd place will sell alright. :D
 
yeah, thats what im hoping is that i just need to keep looking and i will find it.
but it gets discouraging at times. dont know if im wasting my time going down the wrong path.
right now im doing selection on what i got from two packs of MH and one pack of SSH.

i ended up with 9 females of MH and 4 of SSH.
so not quite 20 plants and weve seen them say 1 in 20 haze plants are great.
i dont know if that quite applies to the hybrids as much, and its easy to miss out on one so its better to look through 40-50. so i should quit complaining and keep at it.
next up is NH x Mango and some original haze. that should put me over 20 mns haze hybrids plus a few other pure. i mean ive grown others and am already over 20 between skunk haze, nl5 haze, nevils haze and g13 haze, just for this year i want to go through 100. then i can see what ive come across.
as far as growing the C5,
i havent done it justice yet.
my g13 haze selection turned out better,
and my skunk haze may be better as well.
its hard to understand what is going on,
but recent stock seems to be just as good as the old selections from "thousands" of plants, and i only went threw a couple packs.
 
I've found that sometimes the ones I thought were just okay from seed can be the better plants on the next run of clones. I try to grow stuff a couple of times before I kill it, if it has any potential at all.
 
ill keep it in mind, i usually have taken several cuts off each seedplant by the time the first cut is into flower, so theres usually several others following up close behind by the time i start to get a feel for each plant and for sure by the time i smoke each one. i havent noticed much of a difference. usually the unique ones stand out from the get go.
and the type of plants im looking for will be unmistakable.
the more i think about it, it must have been just a high terpine individual with mostly haze profile. some of you may remember reading about a g13 haze? male that shanti gave to soma i think? and that is what nycd was made from. the description of it smelling so strong of grapefruit? i think, that you could not smell anything else if you touched it first.
that sounds like what we are looking for.
anyone know anything about terpine production, inheritance of traits regarding high terpine %, etc...?

also, how did i forget the NH?
ive got 8 NH in flower, 5 more cloning, and 5 more waiting to get big enough to clone.
18 plants from 4 packs aint that great,
but 18 plants is a good chance to find something worthwhile.
after those clear out then the NH x mango and origianl haze seeds will get popped.
 
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Dam Jack your really passionate about this, I merely remembered reading a post by Nevil about Jack Herer being related to SSH or something like that, I wasn't sure of the details I'm no jack herer expert.

You wouldn't believe a seedbank would take a cut or grow a plant from someone else's already multi award winning strain, rename it, enter it into the cup and start producing F2s for sale ?

Unless you were there chucking pollen, you probably won't ever know the truth, there's too much bullshit.

I was just trying to say with what little I read up about Jack Herer, it seems highly likely it came from Nevil work but I think you already knew that.

I truly wish you all the best of luck finding what your looking for, it seems like you've put in the work, it will pay off one day.
 
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thanks man.
for someone who really likes weed, there is something special about the satisfaction you get from smoking something you really like, really enjoy smoking.
and its rough when you dont quite get that from anything you have.
ive got some things that are good though so i get by...
 
jack hairy said:
ill keep it in mind, i usually have taken several cuts off each seedplant by the time the first cut is into flower, so theres usually several others following up close behind by the time i start to get a feel for each plant and for sure by the time i smoke each one. i havent noticed much of a difference. usually the unique ones stand out from the get go.
and the type of plants im looking for will be unmistakable.
the more i think about it, it must have been just a high terpine individual with mostly haze profile. some of you may remember reading about a g13 haze? male that shanti gave to soma i think? and that is what nycd was made from. the description of it smelling so strong of grapefruit? i think, that you could not smell anything else if you touched it first.
that sounds like what we are looking for.
anyone know anything about terpine production, inheritance of traits regarding high terpine %, etc...?

also, how did i forget the NH?
ive got 8 NH in flower, 5 more cloning, and 5 more waiting to get big enough to clone.
18 plants from 4 packs aint that great,
but 18 plants is a good chance to find something worthwhile.
after those clear out then the NH x mango and origianl haze seeds will get popped.
Click to expand...

Soma actually got an afghani/hawaiian male from Shantibaba way back when he first moved to Amsterdam. All of Soma's strains were basically feminized because his seeds came from hermies. He had a problem with his timers and all his plants in the USA hermied really he obviously wasn't even planning on breeding. Lol

His NYC Diesel was from a bag seed of a friend who claimed it was the best weed he's ever smoked. It happened to be female, well because that's how bag seed happens so he crossed yet another Hermie line to Shantibaba's afghani/hawaiian male.

Honestly Soma is just another reason I know anyone who is passionate about weed can breed just as good as the legends. Nobody is going to tell you Soma Seeds are absolute garbage, definitely some bad reviews of course, MNS even gets them.

But the way cups are won, well you take the best plant you can find pump out a few pounds and hope yours is the best, really terpines and bag appeal are the biggest factor, can't really tell the difference between highs of 100 samples. Lol, Most likely it's just going to be the mother plant of the seed line.

Really it's definitely not great for our Sativa plants which probably have an amazing high but the bag appeal is definitely shit compared to Blue Dream and SSH that are somehow allowed in the Sativa cups to begin with!! Even Neville's Haze is only 75% making it impossible to find a pure Haze.

It's really a pretty big problem Ace claims to sell landraces but they certainly all look and sound like hybrids. Makes you wonder just how many pure Sativa lines are available, I'm sure Sam The Skunkman and Robert Clarke have some hoarded away though as he seemed very interested in having plants tested pre Dutch seed.

The Dutch definitely did bottleneck the gene pool, shit they have basically just been recombining the same gene pool. Skunk seems to be pretty strong in just about everything I seen on Phylyos website, we're definitely missing out on a lot of genetics and that's probably why Phylyos thinks/knows they can do better.
 
Dkeppel said:
Man I loved me some Durban Poison, I haven't seen it in about 12 years.

Isn't Jack Herer just a pheno of SSH ? I'm sure someone creditable posted something about that.
Click to expand...

I have heard that about JH. You are the 4th or 5th person to mention it. Same parents, secretive as to the actual hybrid though.
 
jack hairy said:
BS, what are your jacks like, how many, when purchased, etc...
Click to expand...


As for my cut of JH: in Oregon we can buy marijuana plants at the weed shops here. While I grow mostly from seed in lots, and mainly from my 150 plus seed catalog in my freezer, I do carry over clones and I occasionally buy or trade for cuts. This particular JH cut came from a well known commercial grower here, and all the plants that I have gotten from this one store (Maritime Cafe in Portland, OR) have always been good. These are smelling like skunk already. One cut, one commercial clone of JH. Most cuts in this area are the real deal. Especially from medical growers that I have known for a long time. Lots of original cuts are still floating around here, like GDP, SSH, Durban Poison, Kona Gold, Colombian Black, Original White Widow, Blue Dream, Blueberry, Northern Lights (yes, *the original* Seattle area NL), etc. And JH. Jack was from here and had his Third Eye head shop shop on Hawthorne Blvd. His son closed it down last year. End of an era.

I know there is variation in cuts and seed lots, but if you have such a low percentage of 'great' JH cuts, that means it is unstable. And IMO, undesirable. I have seen that in a lot of modern cuts, in a lot of heirlooms, and in some landraces. Though typically my landraces run true and are not that variable. For example my Durban Poison back cross and all of my Mexican strains. Grow one, and you grow them all. Consistent. These three-way hybrids are apt to be unstable by the broad spectrum of genetics in them, as well as switched genes. Such is the nature of hybrids and environmental impact. So you have to find a good one and clone it. That has been the case with many strains that I have grown. I breed more for stability than one hit wonders though. This JH was just a trial run to see what all the hype was about.
 
Dkeppel said:
Dam Jack your really passionate about this, I merely remembered reading a post by Nevil about Jack Herer being related to SSH or something like that, I wasn't sure of the details I'm no jack herer expert.

You wouldn't believe a seedbank would take a cut or grow a plant from someone else's already multi award winning strain, rename it, enter it into the cup and start producing F2s for sale ?

Unless you were there chucking pollen, you probably won't ever know the truth, there's too much bullshit.

I was just trying to say with what little I read up about Jack Herer, it seems highly likely it came from Nevil work but I think you already knew that.

I truly wish you all the best of luck finding what your looking for, it seems like you've put in the work, it will pay off one day.
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G `day DK

Nevil thought that Jack Herer was bred using the C5 as the mother and an unknown male while he was in jail in Australia by Sensi Seeds .

Just before Nevil sold out to Benny dronkers .

Sensi have always guarded the Jack lineage . Probably royalties involved that they would rather not pay out .

SSH def used the C5 clone crossed to an F4 SK / Hz .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
Hmmm...didn't Nevil say he bred the original line and Ben renamed it Jack Herrer? Wasn't Nevil in jail in 1990? He worked for Sensi after Ben got the castle. What year was JH released?
 
Hey MNS Community

Thats my first post here but I've been reading a while here.

@sensient:

Yes, I guess so:

Somewhere in this Forum Nevil wrote that during he's been in jail someone else finished his project/run for him.

If I remember right he said that JH is just a more indica leaning line of SSH.

Greetings Joe
 
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