A very poor way to try and sell seeds imo?

shantibaba

shantibaba

Breeder and moderator
Hi All

As I have been online moderating since the early 90s, I have seen alot of companies come and go . Most thought they had great ideas, some thought they had the beans and others just did not think...so there have been a plethora of companies fade away. Equally there are some who remain among us, usually due to their work or prices or both.....but few who ride on the back of others rarely win. Which leads me to the reason for this post.

Recently I was sent a rotating publicity from a company in Spain called ACE seeds. I know very little about this company but found that they are using Nevils name and claiming feminizing an original Dutch cut that is circulating in Spain which is very cheap and wrong imo. Nevil and I never feminized our seeds for a reason...as it is no longer breeding work but production work in reality. So claiming a cut firstly which never came directly from Nevil to ACE but via via....like most plants do in Spain, is incorrect and since he just passed away and all of a sudden they use his name for their work is wrong. I do not wish to go further into this because many are guilty of the same process, however to use Nevil name at this time to sell a version of some hack seed to make money for their own pockets....well i believe this shows the lack of integrity of this company.

Please do not take me wrong i am not denying companies making money...but do it off your own merits and not on the back of a legend who just died and would never agree to this. Very poor taste on ACE seeds side and they just lost my respect.

All the best Sb
 
Been out couple years or been watching it grown last couple years on internet... Bit of drama when grows started.. ... Geez should get a swarmi, nevermind.... But who is legit? Just saying don't keep secrets about genetics, don't make it so,when there seems more questions than answers..
 
Last edited:
This year we also have released the super sativa hybrids Killer A5 Haze and Super Malawi Haze, fruit of our latest breeding with the mhytical Dutch elite Haze hybrids selected by Nevil Schoenmakers himself in the late 80s. A joint collaboration between ACE Seeds and Yo Sammy, member of the small group of growers from South Holland who have preserved these old school Dutch elite Haze hybrids for almost 3 decades.
Click to expand...
https://www.aceseeds.org/en/new-strains.html?p=3

For anyone interested, it does say new strains for 2019 on there web page ?

Is this really the place to bring up your shipping issues and demanding more information about genetics ?

I'm just new here but it seems like Neville and Shanti were mates for a long time, Shanti has posted this a little pissed off to see his mates name is being used to sell seeds, maybe just leave it at that and bring up your issues in another post.
 
Last edited:
Growstone said:
As good a place as any, lol
Click to expand...
If you were speaking to the guy face to face and he brought up his recently passed friends name being used to sell seeds, you wouldn't then go on the attack demanding to know this and that, you would bring it up in another enviroment.
 
If... But not the case, so good a place as any ..attack? Mate I spent a shit load, made many threads showing various strains and big up mns and auctions as only place to get seeds.. if been on 420 mag, might have seen posts/threads I've made... Not attacking nothing and whilst not a suckhole fanboy, still a fanboy lol .. so chillax and involve self with what involve you ..
 
I fully agree with you mate, I'd like to know the awnsers too, attack was not the right choice of words, didn't mean to step on any toes. Just lost a few family members recently myself.
 
Last edited:
G `day Shanti

You `re sposed to be a scientist ?
Get the facts straight before you bleet . This has been logged in grows at IC for 6 months .

01-30-2019, 12:50 AM #1
dubi
Vendor

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8,408

THE MYTHICAL A5 HAZE MEETS OUR MALAWI KILLER TO CREATE OUR MOST POWERFUL, TRIPPY AND NARCOTIC HYBRID


01-30-2019, 01:19 AM
Super Malawi Haze
THE NEXT LEVEL IN OUR DEVELOPMENT OF MORE POWERFUL AND PRODUCTIVE SATIVA HYBRIDS WITHIN THE MALAWI/HAZE GENOTYPES


There are several crosses . A5 x Malawi reversed , Nevil`s Haze x Malawi reversed etc .

Not S1 s of Nevil`s work that he left behind with his partners .
Fem crosses to the tried and true Malawi Ace worked for many years . Malawi New Killer cannabinoid and terpene analysis
Our strongest P3 New Malawi Killer, cannabinoid and terpene analysis.

The chemotype is clearly super high THC with little presence of other cannabinoids.
It tested 22 % of THC, from an outdoor bud that suffered from rains and it that could be grown better and let her matured more ... but i think the THC content is quite representative by itself.

The main terpenes in the line are: beta pinene, beta myrcene, d limonene, beta caryophyllene and alpha humulene.





The partners were the keepers of those Haze cuts for 30 years . They even named the Nevil`s Haze . They kept them alive when Nevil didn`t / couldn`t . They have a fair claim . Its not like Nevil was a shoemaker and the elves did the work while he slept . He had partners .

The thing is Shanti , Ace have the real deal originals and show pics of them ,cannabinoid profiles and terpene analysis . Where are your Haze males , what about the NL Hz A to make Nevil`s haze they are awfully camera shy the last 10 years ...



Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
Last edited:
Nevil and Shanti werent on good terms at the time of his passing, so how is it shanti's business what someone else does with someone elses cuttings?
i understand that shanti thinks they just popped up out of nowhere to claim they have this or that, but it isnt new news, nor is it fake news.
ive smoked the G13 x haze A, but shanti doesnt have this.
why not?
ive smoked and have the C5
ive smoked hashplant x haze C
ive smoked nevils selected NH
instead of arguing and casting doubt on others work of which you have no real firsthand knowledge, you should be collaborating with those who are trying to improve on what weve been left with.

Shanti doesnt offer all the crosses we could want, so we have to look elsewhere.

Shanti, were is the pure sativa x haze C cross? there are so many to choose from, one must make a good mate.

If there is a Skunk x Haze A male alive, it needs to be mated with the G13 x haze A before it is too late.
learn from the past.
 
shantibaba said:
Hi All

As I have been online moderating since the early 90s, I have seen alot of companies come and go . Most thought they had great ideas, some thought they had the beans and others just did not think...so there have been a plethora of companies fade away. Equally there are some who remain among us, usually due to their work or prices or both.....but few who ride on the back of others rarely win. Which leads me to the reason for this post.

Recently I was sent a rotating publicity from a company in Spain called ACE seeds. I know very little about this company but found that they are using Nevils name and claiming feminizing an original Dutch cut that is circulating in Spain which is very cheap and wrong imo. Nevil and I never feminized our seeds for a reason...as it is no longer breeding work but production work in reality. So claiming a cut firstly which never came directly from Nevil to ACE but via via....like most plants do in Spain, is incorrect and since he just passed away and all of a sudden they use his name for their work is wrong. I do not wish to go further into this because many are guilty of the same process, however to use Nevil name at this time to sell a version of some hack seed to make money for their own pockets....well i believe this shows the lack of integrity of this company.

Please do not take me wrong i am not denying companies making money...but do it off your own merits and not on the back of a legend who just died and would never agree to this. Very poor taste on ACE seeds side and they just lost my respect.

All the best Sb
Click to expand...
Sounds proper shady that does on ACE Seeds part,
needless to say I wont be buying anything from them.
cheers for the heads up.


It seems a lot of new company's that are springing up from nowhere
are just buying bulk seeds from Spain repackaging them and sell them on
and try to build a brand around their repackaged seeds.
even Aaron from dna genetics confirmed in interview at Spannabis with adam dunn that that's what happening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiPHZqAel9I
watch from 24:40 onwards that's when Aaron confirms lots of new fake seedbanks just selling repackaged seeds.

think this needs discussed.

a good rule of thumb is if a company has no company address
No actual shop you can walk in and buy from
or even a person you can speak to on the phone.
then I would stay well clear

case of buyer beware.
 
There are some clone--only varieties for a long time in the Dutch scene.A5Hz is one of them as like an oldskool OHz x Sk#1 which has been alive for 30+ year.A5Hz has that special incense aroma, only pity Ace is offering a fem cross of A5 Hz x Malawi and not in a regular edition.
 
Hi All

firstly all AUCTION issues are to be directed to helpdesk or sales emails as it is a different area completely to the members website.Thanks.

While everyone has their opinions and justifiably so from all the perspectives they are coming from, I knew Nevil for years and we had a good history together. Since he left back to Australia with some help from a few of his friends including myself many years ago it was not as everyone believes...so please do not give your opinions about things and people you did not know or where not there to witness. Yes friends have periods of strain and Nevil did push a few of his relationships to breaking point...those who know this know who i mean....but the respect for what each of us did was never broken. However i was not talking about this...i was talking about ACE seeds and their current circulation of a public email new offer drop they do monthly.
It was just sent to me a week ago so it is not something i went looking for...and therefore do not follow EB mail at all?

Now for all the extra grips and questions about males etc... this was not intended to be an open forum about everyone issues and curiosities , it was merely a mail and a reaction from a circulation of an email.

As i said i am not angered about companies coping others work or making money, I just thought out of respect for a man who did a lot for many in the way of breeding and who never made feminized seed for sale, it was in poor taste to use his name to sell their female seed version of what they call Killer A5....that is all.

Anyway it was a moment and i wrote what i felt to say...so be it.All the best Sb
 
Gettings Shanti. I've also received these marketing emails from Ace Seeds recently. It is true they began this project and test grows were reported online at ICMag starting in early 2018. As I recall those test grows were not particularly impressive in terms of effect. I do not recall them using Nevil's name gratuitously in their marketing materials but maybe this is more recent?

I'm surprised that you haven't heard of Ace Seeds until recently. As I understand it, they sourced much of their parental stock from the Vibes Collective, landrace and heirloom seed collectors, and began selling that which was gifted to them. They have occupied and now dominate a niche in the seed market that MNS has not served: (claimed) pure or nearly pure sativas. I know you could do it better than they and I wish you would.
 
Ace has been around for a while, this is not something new.

I dont see how they are "using" nevils name to sell the seed, when they are being clear about what the cross is.

If they were using some other genetics and then using nevils name, then i would see the point.

feminized or not doesnt matter, genetics from a specific cut were used to make their seed. should they lie and call it something else to avoid using nevils name?

all we want are names to go along with the seed, info that can be passed along. fake names dont share the heritage and history of the line.
so when someone names a plant, its a benchmark of quality, uniqueness, pedigree, history, etc...
anyone can call anything by any name, but it is your reputation you are putting out there when you do.
names and hype may sell some seeds, but you know that quality sells better.
 
chasin' rainbows

“Extraordinarily powerful, complex, profound and long lasting. Psychedelic beginning that completely changes visual, auditory and tactile perception, catapulting the psyche to new dimensions where there seems to be no tangible reality. As the effect develops, it produces an uncontrollable hilarity, later becoming more introspective and physical, producing strong dissociation of mind and body, and a strong final narcosis similar to opiates. Recommended only for the most intrepid and experienced psychonauts. It can cause panic and/or complete physical debilitation to users with low tolerance or without experience with strong sativas of this caliber. Nothing will be ever the same after trying Killer A5 Haze.”

Has anyone here tried this Killer A5 Haze from Ace yet?
Similar statements like this motivated me to try their Malawi, Golden Tiger, Zamadelica, Vietnam Black. Unfortunately, the plants grown did not even come close to their descriptions of potency. Many presented with intersex tendencies. Yields were disappointing compared to NL5/Hz and Mango Hz. A real downer considering most of their plants finishing 11+ weeks. I have a MH IBL that finishes under 11 weeks that puts the above varieties to shame.

I don’t think Shanti has anything to worry about as regards to seed quality. But,

Marcus_in_the_Darkus said:
...They have occupied and now dominate a niche in the seed market that MNS has not served: (claimed) pure or nearly pure sativas...
Click to expand...

Ace has a great website with products MNS does not offer. MNS could learn something here regarding site presentation and promotion. Good pictures and descriptions make their seeds very appealing. But at €80 for 5 seeds, fems at that, I am hesitant based on past experience and disappointment.

jack hairy said:
...anyone can call anything by any name, but it is your reputation you are putting out there when you do.
names and hype may sell some seeds, but you know that quality sells better.
Click to expand...

Proof is in the seed not in the name. La Nina as an perfect example; no name recognition but some very good shit here. I have found more fire in this as well as MNS's NH, NHM, MH, NL5/Hz, MW lines. My last purchase of NL5/Hz (18 seeds) cost me €23. Pricing, stability, potency, yield- pound for pound, MNS has not let me down.

Shaka
Mu
 
I have been looking at ACE, amongst many others, in my search for the "as close as possible to the originals" as possible, hunt. The Ace name kept coming up, in the end I learned their strains didnt merit all the hype and I stayed away. Cannabiogen came up way more reputable in comparison.

I havent heard about Ace milking the Nevil image for marketing but Todd McCormick is SUPER milking it, you would think they served in the trenches, together. $200 for a pack of Skunk#1.

I asked him if he didnt think it was odd that he is releasing this catalogue soon after Nevil's passing wasnt odd. NO Reply yet ! lol.

I am a new arrival to the scene (3 years) I can understand the frustration of some of the old schoolers here, when it comes to what they would like Shanti be doing as projects.

I also understand (or at least I think so, its a feeling not based on anything more) that Shanti has been focusing on the CBD genetics lines. I could be very wrong but thats what Im catching

As newbee, I love all and am collecting them all.

Peace !
 
Another rip off artist looking to make a quick buck is Los Angeles' own Todd McCormick from the yeah old High Times rag. As soon as Nevil passed he posted his first and only post here on MrN about his experiences with Nevil, and then he launched a 'Tribute to Nevil' seed campaign selling Nevil's genetics. Now Todd has been posting Mel Frank's skunk and Durban S1 seeds for sale on Strainly. For the skunk he wants $20 sods per bean. Fortunately he only has 2 positive feedbacks there, so he is not doing a brisk business.

As for ACE, I have more than one friend in Europe that has been ripped off by them. ACE is or has been selling their proprietary genetics. I do not buy (or sell) seeds as a rule, so I do not have any personal experience with them. I trade a lot of seeds though, and the ones I trade I expect to be bred and sold overnight by many of the green rush seed companies popping up in the western US now. Many of them have the same stories for preserving old strains. Some guy got some rare strain of beans from some dude and grew them every year... and here is your chance to get RKS, Big Sur Holy, Original Haze, or landrace Santa Marta Colombian Gold seeds for a small ransom. Then when you grow them they turn out to have a lot of OG Kush genetics in them, they are autos, they herm, or whatever.

Caveat emptor. If I want seeds, I go to my freezer.
 
Sad to hear this, Shanti. I did not know he had passed. I have some 7 or 8 packs of seeds from him that I was just considering what to run in my new sativa room and logged onto the forums for the first time in about 7 years to see this.
 
Hi All

So while many of you may feel you would wish me to be doing certain projects rather than others, it is in the end an individuals choice.
In recent years the amount of demand for the licence facilities in USA (3 states), the seed production of CBD crew and MNS as well as the seed bulk production for other companies, the formulation of certain recipes for end products of Dr. Nice, and all else....well i did not find time to spend working in one country long enough to do serious selections and trials that merit new strains. Sure we have a lot of ongoing unfinished projects which we fitted in bits and pieces of work, but not enough to conclude , test and verify all we need to do in MNS methodology to pass it into a new hybrid. We do not merely chemically induce selected females and call it a new strain, so please understand the differences in time invested in breeding verse female seed production or regular seed production. MNS takes at least 2 years if not more to start and finish new strains and there is still no guarantee these will be successful with all growers...so you can understand why companies sell female seed and come up with new names as quickly as they do...it is selected seed production not breeding.
Anyway Howard and I in 2007 went already towards medical areas of working on Cannabis, and Nevil declined my offer to join with us then and had spent effort to continue the search for the ultimate haze regular...that was when CBD crew came into being and our work as first CBD enriched seed began a lot of this movement in CBD...now some years later those decisions we all made meant our work loads and projects became different and more specialized.
It is what it is and we have our passions that drive us...sometimes one begins with one goal and on route readjust and reappraise ones ultimate goal. Nevertheless , what my individual passions in cannabis projects were and are, have changed dramatically over the years so i know some will be happier than others...but i and my crew can only do certain amount of work...but we do try to do it as best we can so all who use it benefit.

I do not think this thread needs to continue to do more than offer fair discussions about real experience with seeds in question rather than hypothesizing about others so called experiences with certain companies seed strains. I will accept any who has done a grow giving their opinion of their experience but not others...thanks


all the best Sb
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top