1985 seed bank catalog

I just translated this from Old Ed's site

And then there was Skunk
The Green Team is now maintained by the country gardens with plants
In 1984 the Green team had a turnover of several hundred kilograms per year and it was time for expansion. We sent a ticket to two promising Americans, Ed Rosenthal, writer of the Bible and ancient weed a man named Sam Skunkman. This Sam promised such tremendous benefits to the harvest and he developed new kind of skunk that we called him the miracle man. This year we first grew in a greenhouse Skunk like the picture below.

When I was forced to sell the weed Skunk literally out of our hands. Consumers were very enthusiastic about the beautiful red mountains and ditches Nederweed in their hearts. Sam was right! Its kind made in cultivation in the greenhouse and under artificial light as possible. The wheel so hard that we had gotten started on the run now with tremendous speed rotating. Everything was suddenly possible.

There were many characters who show up to the Green team also wanted to participate and thereby did not hesitate to use their elbows. There was talk of a large network of banks and the money was more important.

Yup, Skunk changed everything, I'm guessing that whatever seeds Old Ed brought with him in 1979 weren't anything special, otherwise, why would they have needed to bring in Sam and his seeds?

This is the pic of the first Skunk plant grown in Holland, Old Ed examining it:

19504d1294307308-1985-seed-bank-catalog-old-ed-greenhouse-1984kopie-jpg
 
I knew Wernard. He told me that Sam lived with him when he first came from the States. I understand that it was a traumatic experience for him. I'm sure he has still got PTSD if you know what I mean. Wernard and I had different philosophies, his was shall we say parochial. He mouthed off about me in one or two of the popular magazines and for a while I was planning to punch him in the guts, but I never saw him again. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then.
N.

Wernard was rather traumatised by the whole events surrounding Sam, it's elluded to in the De Tijd article and Frank Bovenkerk's writings:

from the De Tijd article:

How did Watson acquire the funds to found Hortapharm? After some research it shows Watson wasn't only involved in illegal weed growing in the USA, but in Holland too. Not weedgrowing as a hobby, but on a grand scale, a business worth millions.

It was clear the Dutch Wietgrowers caught a big fish with getting David Watson on board. A man fascinated by the secrets of the cannabis plant. A man on a mission, convinced of the blessings of cannabis.

Like every American, he thought big. Just like Michael Taylor, also known as Michael Rich. They became companions, throwing themselves on the big scale growing of nederwiet.

Wernard Bruining declined. "It became too big and too fanatic. They wanted to be the best and biggest, which wasn't necessary for me."

It was annoying for him though that two of his greenhouses were busted shortly after wards. A coincidence, the police told him, they just happened to come across it. "But it was the first time they busted a big greenhouse. Before that they had never managed to do so"

In the summer two big sites where busted, the third empty upon arrival. Various employees where arrested, Watson and Taylor stayed out of sight. In the "us knows us" world of growing they were already for some time known as people who pulled the strings. Shortly after wards stories circulated the two Americans had started again. Within a few months they had set up a new greenhouse. This one was busted too, but again no sign of the Americans.

Were they simply too smart, or was it something else, something invisible (untouchable)?

No one paid too much attention to it. There were suspicions, but the were erased when the two continued a few years later, undisturbed.

It was the era when partially thanks to Watsons' seed, Holland's masses switched to nederwiet.

It became an internationally recognized product, the new pearl of the dutch horticulture.

But in 1992 the calm tide turned, when in the vicinity of Tilburg two massive growsites were busted, with according to the police 40.000 plants.
Sirens, squat teams, broken doors and a lot of screaming. Two of the approximately fifteen suspects broke down practically straight away under questioning and mentioned the name Watson as the big man and investor behind the wiet operation. Justice didn't act. Didn't ask questions about him, didn't even investigate the large amount of funds which apparently left the country via Luxemburg.

Watson was and remained, to the surprise of many, a free man and founded Hortapharm that same year.

Sounds to me from that piece of writing that Wernard refused to get into the huge grows with the Americans and then lost two of his greenhouses to busts which were probably the result of the Americans tipping of the police.

I wish I could find the Frank Bovenkerk piece where he mentioned the big grow busts that were attributed to Sam and the Americans, it's online somewhere.

Wernard had the hippie ideal, he came out of the radical late 60s scene where guys like Jasper Grootveld and Kees Hoekert and The Provos were stirring things up, Sam and the Americans had a totally different ethic that was focussed on the almighty dollar, Wernard didn't want to be part of that.

Wernard got his heart broken in the late 90s when Positronics shut down, his employees and supposed friends had been robbing him blind and due to his hippie idealism he couldn't see it until it was too late, he got immensely hurt, had his seed collection stolen and walked away. That was the end of the hippie ideal in the cannabis scene and since then it's become very much a commercial enterprise with very different ethics and ideals to what Wernard and his hippies had in mind, sad really but kind of inevitable.

Given what we know about Sam, I am sure Wernard found having him in his home rather traumatic, a Dutch hippie suddenly realising he had brought the enemy to his bossom.
 
I'm guessing that whatever seeds Old Ed brought with him in 1979 weren't anything special,
There was a legendary Oaxacan that came to Holland, '78?
Did Old Ed have something to do with it? I got seeds from the F1 grown outdoors. It was outstanding. I got into breeding it. After the cops poured all the seeds I had on the floor during a bust. All I had left was tantamount to mixed open pollinated seed, you know the stuff some people think should be sold. It was never the same again. I couldn't fish out the good stuff anymore.
N.
 
Given what we know about Sam, I am sure Wernard found having him in his home rather traumatic, a Dutch hippie suddenly realising he had brought the enemy to his bossom.
I don't think those busts had happened yet when we talked about it. I'm pretty sure he alluded to how soul crushing it was to be in such close proximity to such an abrasive personality. Some would understand how he would feel that way.
N.
 
Having met Sam and Wernard I think I understand, Wernard is a very quietly spoken, gentle soul, small guy, I tower over him. Sam is a big lump, probably 6ft3 and definitely not quietly spoken.

On that Oaxacan, I wouldn't be surprised if Old Ed brought it over, I suspect the seeds Ed brought were all of good lines but they weren't the type of highly worked hybrid they needed, they were heirlooms like the Oaxacan which would have made great breeding material but weren't going to perform anything like as well as Skunk#1 in a Dutch greenhouse. I can only imagine Wernard and the boys trying to produce something worthwhile from a 14-16 week sativa like the Oaxacan, with the limited knowledge of the time they would have found it near impossible, but when they were handed Skunk, suddenly things changed.

Right, I'm off to watch that documentary, I bet it was shot at the same time as the stuff I've seen before where Wernard was sat at the bar in Positronics demonstrating how to make hash with ground up bud, a coffee filter and a jar of ice water.
 
Ah, I see, didn't realise that.

Wish we still had things like proper Oaxacan.

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That sounds likely.Ed's revenge?
Unless there is good evidence against him, I can't believe it. Maybe Jim's material might clear things up.
N.

Sorry, no 'secret documents' here. I'm mostly just speculating on hard feelings between the two, based on a couple first-hand factors-- Ed's unwillingness to discuss the Skunkman, and my memory of Sam ripping me a new one for putting his real name on the internet when I posted something ages ago on one of the canna-forums along the lines of, "but I thought D_____ W______ created Skunk #1, according to Ed Rosenthal".

Ed & Sam have had a fairly long association, going back at least as far as your (Nev's) association with him. Ed's early 1980's grow guides co-credit Selgnij on the "Advanced Flowering" section. There's also at least one High Times article co-credited to the two-- "Pot Paradise" by Ed Rosenthal with Sam Selgnij (HT, June '85)-- which is mostly a guide to the burgeoning Dutch coffeeshop scene.

The translations of Old Ed's writings that BH posted were new to me, and certainly seem to give creedence to the old tale of Ed & Sam having gone to the Netherlands to start a seed company.

Anyway, I'll get to those previously mentioned historical curiosities soon...
 
I remember that incident Jim, same thing happened to me as well when I did the same thing as you did, I inadvertently quoted something that referred to Ed's 'outing' and Sam PMed me and was furious.

If you look at Sam's profile on icmag he's there every day pretty much and judging by the 'Current Activity' indicator he reads loads of threads so I'm curious as to why he has not had one word to say recently.

Look forward to seeing your historical curiosities Jim!
 
You always love to contradict me, don't ya?

He uses the name David Paul Watson in all his legal activities such as Hortapharm and the international Hemp Association.

So whether it's his real name or not, he clearly doesn't want people linking David Watson and Sam Skunkman in public.

I don't have the PM he sent me and have since been banned from icmag and to be honest, I don't care if you don't believe me.
 
Cool, Sam wasn't really nasty or threatening, he was upset, I don't recall precisely what he said but it was along the lines of 'how would you like it if you saw your name online etc.'
 
Sam is like the proverbial poo-onion with so many layers of bullshit.

The code has been cracked and he can save face by confronting it head on and explaining the many alter egos or hide, lie, and/or go on a cover-up campaign and add credence to the rumors of him being a liar.

Jingles, the ball is in your court.
 
Wernard making cold water hash (Amsterdam by Night, Pot Night, Channel4 UK, 1995):YouTube - Amsterdam By Night Pt 3of4 UK420.avi

That's the one. Pot Night probably started a whole generation of stoners off on the path of growing your own. I had actually planted my first ever seeds about 6 months before Pot Night, never got a harvest off them really. I remember watching Pot Night in my room in Halls of Residence at Uni with about 10 people crammed in squinting at my 14 inch portable telly through a haze of hash smoke. I recorded it on VHS tape and watched it several times again. I can remember everyone saving for me all the seeds they found in their weed for the next 6 months and when I got a rented house the year after filling the back garden with plants. Year after that the summer of 97 was one of the best I can ever remember so that year we had a beautiful back garden crop then watched most of it turn to mould because they were all bagseed from import and didn't finish early enough so October 97 I got on the ferry to Holland to buy seeds cos someone had shown me a Sensi Seeds catalogue. Then Dirty Dave the Welsh Hippie that everyone thought was way too creepy gave me a NL cutting in a Pot Noodle tub and I bought four 400W warehouse halides off a dodgy scouser and set em up in the cellar and the journey really began. So Channel 4 have a lot to answer for! lol
 
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