1985 seed bank catalog

[bonbolos]

hi all

if sam/DW is Jingles / Selgnij; so he is the writter of this article (written in 1979 according to the last page); this shows that he was already well known enought for his articles to be published and already into breeding (according to the schemes he puts and explanations he gives it seems already quite thought through).

Can we find what did the postbox corresponded to ?

The pic on the first page would be Sam ? finaly a pic of the man! (you can find a video o picture of all of the majors players on the canna scene in the 80's 90's exepted him! even when looking into hortapharm or GW or even Pharmtex consultants)

anyway, really great thread thanks to BH, bodhi, Jim dankness and Nev for all this;


cheers

bonbolos

 

[L33t]

Thanks for the 79 article jim

bonbolos

the pic must be indeed from Sam , he has uploaded some pics from him and his wife on icmag gallery . You can see its the same person although none of the pics we 've seen so far clearly show his face, but its him same guy:

 

[L33t]

"Hello all,
I have been trying to figure a way to automate the dry sift extraction so I could sell a patented machine for a few hundred bucks that would allow anyone to make dry sift hash of the same quality. All you need is a great clone for the resin, and my secret method, as long as you don't care if the yields are 1%, you could use all the 99% trash and reprocess it for water hash or oil.
I don't use cold or any water to make dry sift....
For all of you whiners that say we are all one community, I see you smoking strains developed by me, making seeds or clones of my varieties to sell for your profit, making waterhash using a method first made public by me, I ask you all why don't you give away herb, resin, seeds, clones for free? We are all one big community, yes?
To those of you who do give freely, great, I have done the same for most of my life and am happy I did so even if some in the "community" was rather greedy with some of my gifts.
Lets all hope I can find a way to share a device that does the work, then I will be happy that everyone could make the highest quality dry sift in the world.
-SamS
PS el capitan,
I have been making this dry sift hash for 20+ years, and no one has come close, if they can they deserve a lot of credit, it took me years to come up with how to do it.
BTW I made the discovery in West Africa trying to clean up some lousy African herb resin so it could be smoked, the resin when cleaned up did FMCD and I knew I was on to something.... Which was good for me because the herb was piss-poor un-smokeable, for me. Its a great method where bud is cheap, because then the finished product super clean dry sift, is still cheap as hell."

original post link here

horror business,
I have been asked for 20 years how to do it. I know how popular a cheap dry sifter that can make this quality dry sift would be. I also know that many people would like to know the underlying principal that makes it work so they could make their own right now.
People need to wait until I can try and patent the process, then I am theoretically protected from others that would copy the invention and try to sell them. I just want a fair return for my work. In 1989 I gave out how to make water hash for $10, and I only sold the instructions to a few hundred people, so I basically made nothing, I hope I can do better this time around.
Time will tell....
Oh and don't worry about the process being lost, I have taught several close friends how it works, with their promise they would not discuss with anyone until after my death. The process is not ever going to be lost, I just hope I can make an automated machine cheap enough for everyone to use. That is for everyone that has lots of herbal Cannabis to grind up and keep the best 1%.

-SamS

original post link here

when reading the last page of the '79 article , and maybe I 'm wrong on this..but I really think we are reading Sam's Magic Secret Recipe that he uses to make 99% pure resin kief/hash Even the timeframe quite matches.

Although electrostatic methods were proposed in the icmag thread on this where people suggested methods to replicate Sams Secret Pure Resin extractions he never commented on it.
Could it be really this?..simply Shaking buds inside a metal tin fruitcake/cookie container with a metallic tightfitting lid , then scraping off the resin off the lid? haha..thats what he was keeping secret all these years..? LOL
After Sam realized he didnt make any money for speading Nevil's waterhash method , and that he could make money of this old pure quality kief producing extraction method like others did with waterhash extraction methods and products , it seems to me that Sam thought it would be wise to make it seem as if his method for 99% pure hash was secret and unknown to the public so he can go and patent it before others do.

Its also interesting to read what Sam writes about smoking kief in pressed form being better than unpressed , and also in India Sadhus rinsing the kief with cold water before smoking which he said helps for a better smoking experience.Nowadays Sam sais he prefers his kief unpressed and of dislikes water extracted kief as water washes away the good terpens.

thanks again for the old article jim , really appreciated you shared this with us

 

[Nevil]

Pressed hash is better and water does wash away good terpines.
N.

 

[L33t]

Hi Nevil,

I prefer pressed hash too , it smokes more 'oily'-like and is more full flavored.
When I make dry sieve kief I usually freeze the well dried trim and use 120micron or smaller screen placed as a lid over a large but short glass jar and shake over a big mirror for 10 secs or so , then refreeze the material before doing a second , third run etc.
Could you share some details about your prefered kief making methods Nevil?

 

[kashrocks]

when reading the last page of the '79 article , and maybe I 'm wrong on this..but I really think we are reading Sam's Magic Secret Recipe that he uses to make 99% pure resin kief/hash

Although electrostatic methods were proposed in the icmag thread where people suggested methods to replicate Sams Secret Pure Resin extractions he never replied that they found his secret method.
Could it be really this?..simply Shaking buds inside a metal tin fruitcake/cookie container with a metallic tightfitting lid , then scraping off the resin off the lid? haha
thats what he was keeping secret all these years..? LOL

Its also interesting to read what Sam writes about smoking kied in pressed form being better than unpressed , and also in India Sadhus rinsing the kief with cold water before smoking which he said helps for a better smoking experience.
Nowadays Sam sais he prefers his kief unpressed and of dislikes water extracted kief as water washes away the good terpens.

thanks again for the old article jim , really appreciated you shared this with us

You re right L33t...
Steve used a very similar method which was giving amazin results.
He shared it on OG in 2001.

The bubble hardened like that after the first hit, it lasted until I shot it, caught my breath, and finished it off! Goes from solid to liquid back to solid in no time. Amazing stuff. You are looking at bouncing 100gms of trimmed tops for 3grams of this quality resin. You could go for 4-5grams and it would still be better than you could buy at a shop in Holland. A lot better. The genius that produced and cleaned the resin in this shot uses very expensive laboratory equipment for the task. He is simply the most advanced resin cleaner in the world. The equipment I use to come as close to this as possible cost 1000X less. The lab equipment is $60 000 USD. You can do well for around $60. The trick is having lots of great herb to do it with.
Step one- Clean resin from flowers,
Step two- Pass resin through screen that just lets it through, stopping any larger pieces that may have come through the first time,
Step three- Place resin on a screen that is just a little too tight for the mature glands to go through, just look at a few glands on the screen through your dopescope. Now mash, and grind the resin powder on the screen to break up anything that was the same size as the glandheads that came through the first two screenings. If the resin powder is rather polluted, a lot of garbage will fall out the bottom of the screen while the powder on top is being ground through.
Step four- Vacuum the bottom of the screen to suck the dust out of the resin on the screen. I find myself using a variety of screen sizes but 120lines per centimetre, is my most common for this application.
Just to show yourself that you are not losing anything good cover the end of your vacuum with 200 line screen. After vacuuming, you can look at the debris caught in the mouth of the vacuum.
I cut squares of screen and use them to replace the existing loose screen in those little gray hand shakers. Put the resin in the top, the vacuum in the bottom. If necessary repeat steps 2-4.
Step five- Static electricity, go ahead and experiment with it, do I have to tell you everything? Balloons or old TV's work great.

 

[L33t]

hi kash thanks for the input , always interesting to see what you dig up from the 'cellar'

I believe Sams magic secret recipe is basically using the electrostatic properties of resin like in the case of his 1979 99% pure method , as well as careful screening like Breeder Steve did with 2 screens where only a certain range diameter mature trichome headz/spheres are finally kept. Seeing Sams kief pics I notice the uniform size in all the trichome heads so it makes sense that he is somehow selecting for certain size trichome heads via multiple screeens or other method. Maybe as the trich heads of the material are stuck on the metallic container lid , the different maturity trichs detach and fall off at different rates as time passes , the most mature, falling last due to higher THC/resin to trichome tissue ratio than immature ones.

 

[british_hempire]

Sam said that he discovered the technique in a hotel room in West Africa so it must be extremely simple.

I'm betting it's just that 'stick it in a metal tin and give it a shake then scrape it off the lid' technique.

What I reckon happened is he had this poor quality resin and took it back to his hotel in a metal tin, being Africa in the 70s a recycled metal tin would be far more likely a container to find than a plastic sealable tub or baggie. Bet he took the lid off when he got back and noticed resin stuck to the lid, scraped some off, looked at it with a loupe, noticed it looked very clean, smoked it, discovered it was 100x better than the original resin and a little light bulb came on in his head.

Anyways, I just rubbed some trim through a 75 micron metal screen and I'm about to fill my pipe with it, would prefer to press it first but I'm running low on smokeables while waiting for some hanging plants to be nicely dried.

With this metal sceen I get a very clean product when examined under my 30x loupe I see nothig but glands. Unlike when using a nylon screen I have to scrape the resin off the underside of the screen as it sticks due to static.

I've got a few metal tins with tight lids around, when I have enough material to try it out, I'll give Sam's method a go.

 

[jim dankness]

Bodhi, the June '85 High Times article seems to show Selgnij as just becoming familiar with the Dutch coffeeshops. I'm not sure what sort of lead times that HT worked with in the early 80's, but those dates do seem to match up fairly close.

I'm also not sure why you all are so obsessed with a 'bust' that seems like it wasn't a bust. I haven't lived in California all my life, but I have lived here long enough to know it is entirely possible (and not at all that unusual) for one's cultivation activities to be, shall we say, curtailed or ended by the law and yet not have any charges pressed against the cultivator. If charges were not pressed, is that still a bust? The quote on page 3 from Assistant Santa Cruz DA Ralph Boroff might be a tip off as why the charges were dropped easily.

And I'm not sure why the bust is that relevant anyway-- this article clearly shows Sam to both have an exhaustive knowledge of cannabis breeding in 1979 as well as the seed collection to go with it. Does it really seem that unlikely that he bred Skunk #1? In my mind, this piece of writing only confirms it.

Bonbolos, the address given in the article is the same given as the contact address for the magazine on the last page. Editor/publisher Peter Stafford was a well-known psychedelics researcher who lived in Santa Cruz for most of his life, and I believe may have taught at UC Santa Cruz for a period. It's no surprise a couple of sharp young minds like Sam & RCC (Clarke has several photographs of psychedelic cacti elsewhere in the mag) were drawn into his orbit, if only for a moment.

 

[bonbolos]

hi Dankness

this article clearly shows Sam to both have an exhaustive knowledge of cannabis breeding in 1979 as well as the seed collection to go with it. Does it really seem that unlikely that he bred Skunk #1? In my mind, this piece of writing only confirms it.

that's what I think, he surly did bad things bad he still merits some credits for some very good breeding and making available to other breeders some genes. But he still has a very strange past, a bit dodgy (can I say that, dodgy?).

thanks for the input mate

Cheers

bonbolos

 

[british_hempire]

I think the reason why people are focusiing on the bust is because it is alked about in the de tijd article and nom de fleur wrote that post at cw where he talked about seeing the bust on tv. Wasn't the Sacred Seeds bust pretty big news at the time it happened?

That article Jingles/Sam wrote that Jim posted has certainly made it clear that Sam was doing the things he said he was in Cali but it doesn't necessarily mean that he bred skunk #1, he may have got hold of it in the mid 70s and worked it to his ideal of how it should be, people still say Sacred Seeds was a collective endeavour among growers living in the Bay Area communes. Joe Pietri has just written another article where he claims Sacred Seeds goes back to the 1940s but I'm not buying that until I see some evidence.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

That shit is too funny!

I returned from Maui in November of 1977 and was introduced to Hippie growers 20 years senior to Me. In 1977 they recieved the Afghan Seeds from the best Hash district, and at the same time recieved Red lebanese seeds from the best hash district in Lebanon. They threw all the seeds into a garden on top of Mount Aukum, above Placerville. The next year We had awesome encrusted Hybrid buds, and I began screening out the Kief. My favorite was the trim super shake. It was 75 bucks an ounce and better than anyones bud. Id screen off the Kief then sell the shake, as it was still superb. I showed the growers how to screen off the Kief , and they taught others. That was 1978, and there were people who already were well aware of the Kief.
What stands out in Sams writijngs in I I I Me me me. Profit profit profit.
Heres what I have to say to Sam. Its fucking paper man. Get over it Sam. Grow up. People see through Your words and its a real disapointment to us all.

DP

 

[british_hempire]

One thing that annoys me about Sam is he tries to claim credit for inventing so many things. He has probably done enough stuff to rightly be given huge credit for but that's not enough and he wants to take credit for just about everything. Cali Orange for example, he claims he introduced it, he didn't, Jerry Biesler bred it.

What I want to know is what happened to all the seeds from the legal days before 1937? Parke Davis put a lot of money into setting up the production of 'Cannabis Americana' they imported the very best seed from India and elsewhere and grew them field scale in Kentucky and elsewhere in the US and also had farms in Mexico. I really don't believe all the pre-1937 genes were lost, some of them must have been kept by some people and have been around in the 60s to have an input into the early Cali growing scene. Sam and the other white baby boomer generation started in the 60s but there were poor Mexican immigrants and Indians who immigrated as cheap labour that were growing weed in Cali up until 1937, I don't expect they all stopped because it became illegal. In 1905 when the Mexican Revolution kicked off, there was a huge migration of Mexicans into the US and they brought their culture of smoking and growing weed with them, that was why the early anti-mj laws were enacted. Tom Mix the famous star of the era of silent films fought with Pancho Villa's army during the revolution and used to bring saddle bags full of Mexican weed over the Rio Grande to sell in the US.

The real reason why cannabis history as it has been written begins in Cali in the 60s is because that is when white middle class folks starting smoking and growing the stuff, before that it was mostly the latinos and blacks and they have conveniently been ignored so that the white baby boomers like Sam can claim to have invented everything. Sam and others say that Sensimilla wasn't grown in the US until the 70s and if you read old magazines they bang on about sensimilla and how it is better than seeded bud. That is terribly arrogant, the Mexicans had known all about Sensimilla for a long time before that, sensimilla is just Spanish for 'without seed' after all. Also, I'm damn sure the people doing the growing of the medical grade Cannabis Americana for Parke-Davis and other big pharma companies knew all about sensimilla, they imported seeds from India and they also imported knowledge from India and Sensimilla growing has been practised in India for a very long time indeed, maybe as far back as the earliest civilisations in the Ganges plain 6-7000 years ago. It's ludicrous for the cali baby boomers to lay any kind of claim to having invented sensimilla or even to have introduced the technique to the US. I expect the Mexicans who fled the revolution in 1905 knew all about sensimilla and the first cali Sensimilla was grown long before Sam was even a glint in his daddy's eye. There are countless tales of how powerful the Sonora desert grass the Yaqui Indians cultivated and smoked was of how it made them crazy fearless warriors in the army of Pancho Villa who would charge the machine guns of the Federales with blind courage. I wouldn't be the least little bit surprised if the best weed the Yaqui grew was every bit as powerful and psychedelic as any Haze the white folks in Cali had in the 70s. I mean, come on, it made the Yaqui absolutely crazy and totally wild fearless warriors, it had to have been some mighty fine shit! At the same time the Yaqui were fighting for Villa, other Mexicans from Sonora were crossing the border to live in Cali and work in agriculture, they would have taken their crazy loco weed seeds with them so Cali had mind-blowing shit growing on it's soil long before any of the 60s generation were born or their parents were even born. I know a lot of people would give their right testicle for some original pure californian Haze seeds but me, I'd prefer to get hold of some of that crazy shit the Yaqui were growing down in Sonora, that weed helped change history.

 

[Ronin]

I got a large piece of glass from a desk on the side of the road and cleaned it up. I had a frame and fixed a screen over it. I do all my trimming over this and scrape up the kief when I am done. Why waste it? It is going to come off when you are working, so might as well collect it.

We made a frame and fixed old shaky fish pumps on each corner and would put all the trim and popcorn on it after a grind. A few hours later and you have the hard work done for ya. You can make a finer screened frame and do the same with the kief to get different grades.

Not high tech, and probably not as pure, but it works!

 

[kashrocks]

One thing that annoys me about Sam is he tries to claim credit for inventing so many things. He has probably done enough stuff to rightly be given huge credit for but that's not enough and he wants to take credit for just about everything. Cali Orange for example, he claims he introduced it, he didn't, Jerry Biesler bred it.

The strain mentioned in J.Biesler's book is Orange Spice so I am not really sure it has something to do with California Orange.

However I do not believe either that Sam created CO as he stated in his catalog from 85 that the seeds offered were F2 and that it was the 1st year they had grown it for evaluation.

Peace.

K.

 

[bodhi]

i wish this coversation was happening a few years ago, when peter stafford was still walking around downtown santa cruz with a smile, he would have been a great resource and he loved to talk. i still find parts of his book collection once and awhile at the local used book store.

i love how all you guys are going into deep stoner sherlock holmes mode....

 

[Nevil]

seeds offered were F2 and that it was the 1st year they had grown it for evaluation.

I suspected as much. Even when I got them they weren't that "orange". The smells weren't there when I got them and several generations of inbreeding couldn't fish them out. I only continued selling the ones I bred because I'd improved the structure of the plant and increased the yield a lot. I had trouble with the name, but I didn't want to cloud the ancestry.
N.

 

[biteme]

in a perfect world, a formal foia request should bring about a ton of new information considering its age and lack of need for further secrecy of the info being sought but i am having trouble with getting a handle on what samskunk is all about?

the problem i have always had with sam is that he does not speak the truth. his version of events does not happen in the real world without the collusion of the police and i have said as much many times. and how his line of bs sucked in so many fools over the years is beyond me? old skool folks in the drug world, whatever their level or substance, conducted themselves as if involved in criminal behavior. i make no apologies. that's how i was taught and it is what it is. so when i start hearing tales of a caper where the finest genetics in the usa are somehow pirated off to europe by a single brilliant mover and shaker is where i started to cry foul. and no, sam never addressed a question of mine. you think he is gun shy now at icrag? he learned that at og. believe it.

the biggest prob is he has somehow continued to grow? wtf? recently i learned of a dea association equally scary. anyone with this sort of aide from the dea has huge cojones. any foi request will turn up what the dea wants you to see imo. peace-biteme

 

[british_hempire]

The strain mentioned in J.Biesler's book is Orange Spice so I am not really sure it has something to do with California Orange.

However I do not believe either that Sam created CO as he stated in his catalog from 85 that the seeds offered were F2 and that it was the 1st year they had grown it for evaluation.

Peace.

K.

The T-Shirt from 1978 for Exotica Seeds (Jerry B's seed co) has the name Orange Spice on it too. I lost my copy of Jerry B's book so I can't check but doesn't he say he bred the best Afghanis into an orange tasting strain and introduced it to Cali? Maybe he always called it Orange Spice and it became known as Cali Orange? Maybe he had more than one strain, he could well have crossed his Afghani orange line to the best Cali strains and offered a number of hybrids through Exotica Seeds? Maybe someone has a copy of an advert or a catalogue for Exotica Seeds?

The story I've heard is that Sam bought the Cali Orange seeds from Jerry B's ex. If he bought those seeds not long before he left the US then it makes sense that he grew them for evaluation in Holland and made f2s that he sold in Holland as listed in that 85 catalogue.

There must be more info out there on Exotica Seeds and Cali Orange, there must have been advertising or catalogues as there was a T-shirt at least and we know Exotica Seeds definitely existed, I posted a pic of it earlier in this thread, I don't know where the pic comes from originally, probably an old book or magazine, Zamalito posted it at breedbay a couple of years ago.

 

[british_hempire]

i wish this coversation was happening a few years ago, when peter stafford was still walking around downtown santa cruz with a smile, he would have been a great resource and he loved to talk. i still find parts of his book collection once and awhile at the local used book store.

i love how all you guys are going into deep stoner sherlock holmes mode....

This is why Sam and co have got away with rewriting history - guys like Peter Stafford aren't around anymore. History is written by the victor. I bet Mr Stafford would have been able to fill in a lot if not all of the blanks in the mystery of the Haze Bros, Sacred Seeds etc. If Jim dankness hadn't posted that article by Jingles, we'd have been none the wiser about what Sam was doing in 1979, there are so many missing pieces of the puzzle but slowly people keep turning up with random pieces and we are slowly building a better picture.