1985 seed bank catalog

[british_hempire]

I guess Nev sold enough seeds from the 84 catalogue that he could afford that nice colour jacketed 85 catalogue! lol

Interesting that skunkman was jingles. Wasn't RCC the guy who wrote the articles in HT attributed to 'R'?

With RCC writing for HT, they had a good way of building up whatever mythology they wanted, HT was the only outlet after Sensimilla Tips got shut down. Also, I think Ed R, while he denied it the other day, is tied up with those two, Frank Bovenkerk wrote that Sam and Ed came to Amsterdam together and worked together on setting up some greenhouse grows, with Ed, Sam and Rob all singing from the same hymn sheet that gives them the ability to pretty much invent history as they pleased, not least because a lot of the people who knew better were either imprisoned or driven away by Green Merchant. It's only because Nev is still around to share his knowledge that we are even finding out about the post 1985 lies Sam and his crew have told, and you could argue that they tried to make sure nev kept schtum too I suppose.

There are still many inconsistencies, such as sam posting the Haze Bros fell out and stopped speaking in the late 70s then one moved to Mexico, yet the Haze bros buds are in HT in the 80s. I don't know what they're hiding, but they must be hiding some things, otherwise, why lie? Ego also comes into it, Sam has a huge ego and wants to take credit for everything.

 

[Ronin]

DG and Gypsy were never married, they were together for a while, it was a funny situation, DG was the girlfriend of Plural of Mongoose who worked for Gypsy then had a big falling out, tried to get control of the seed business and took legal action over a supposed assault. PoM got it together with Gypsy's ex-wife and Gypsy got together with PoM's ex-girlfriend, it's like a soap opera!

Thanks for clearing it up. My friend must of misunderstood when he got the story when he was in Adam.

Still, pussy is a powerful thing - the most powerful thing known to man. It isn't ethical.

 

[british_hempire]

Ah, bet there's a sequel!

Gypsy and DG move to SE Asia in the wake of that nasty court case. Gypsy had this luxury villa out there and was having a ton of building work done on it, posted photos at icmag. DG apparently didn't like living out there and came back, Gypsy stayed. Next thing we hear, Gypsy has a new baby and it isn't DGs, DG stops being business partners with Gypsy and moves back to US, remour has it gypsy had to pay her a load of cash. Nothing is heard about DG for a while then she re-emerges as a breeder, wins the 420 cup and now is the biggest thing going at icmag.

It's a bit like when Bobby Ewing walked out of the shower in Dallas, innit! lol

 

[bigherb]

all the contributions are appreciated

i love those old sacred seeds catalogue pics

thats funny wat a nickname

it seems jingles is SAMS no doubt .i recall readin this before jingles has been referenced quite a few times in the past .

dont nkow where the story orginally came from but CBF posted aN OLD thread at IC skunk#1read.....,where jingles is referenced aswell as some of the sacred seed members and of course SAMS denies everything

sams did say that homegrown came to the cruz n interviewed him for the article which he gave them the soil reciepe.soo in other words without SAMS sayin soo he admits it was him in the article you can look at his post in the thread at IC ,which even has the article pages of the reciepe aswell as haze el primo paragraph

the recipe was not sams as he stated it was the bros ,the 2 actually stopped talking in the mid 70's but both had grows after the fallout.boel n hawaii have notin to do with haze neither does a dragon

just stories true but there is truth its just a whole lotta BS to decipher threw,i love the haze bros by farmer green article BS yes but truths aswell ,the purple n gold pheno was a reality when you see it on the ohaze poster of 76 it confirms the stories


1luvbigherb

 

[Ronin]

Ah, bet there's a sequel!

Gypsy and DG move to SE Asia in the wake of that nasty court case. Gypsy had this luxury villa out there and was having a ton of building work done on it, posted photos at icmag. DG apparently didn't like living out there and came back, Gypsy stayed. Next thing we hear, Gypsy has a new baby and it isn't DGs, DG stops being business partners with Gypsy and moves back to US, remour has it gypsy had to pay her a load of cash. Nothing is heard about DG for a while then she re-emerges as a breeder, wins the 420 cup and now is the biggest thing going at icmag.

It's a bit like when Bobby Ewing walked out of the shower in Dallas, innit! lol

He might not be ethical but he is one savvy motherfucker. That cat works so many angles and gets away with it. He really is a Gypsy, probably will go in the Gypsy Hall of Fame for the biggest grift ever.

 

[Ronin]

boel n hawaii have notin to do with haze neither does a dragon


1luvbigherb

How can you say that for sure? How do you know people didn't use "Haze" as a slang in circles back then? To state something as fact you need rock solid evidence to be credible.

The genetics could be related. By all reports, "Haze" was different every year and, with every plant, there would be diversity due to open pollination and the use of seeds instead of the same clone parents and production plants.

Just as MM could be related to those two as well - things were done differently before the whole finding of outstanding plants, cloning them, and using the same parents every time for making a "strain". There were imports coming and going from the same places.

People today would not believe what it was like before you had easy access to seed banks. You had to grow a lot of shit weed to find the good herbs. With places like Mr Nice, even the shittiest of plants are 1000x better than some of the shit I have grown looking for something to clone.

I appreciate your passion, but to be taken seriously as a writer, you need to write with no bias and report all sides that you can. With out having stock of all of them from back in their heyday and DNA tests, there is no way to be sure. Unfortunately, there is no way to get that material and verify it due to the nature of the business.

Besides - the mystery keeps it interesting. Let people make their own decisions with all the evidence you can present.

 

[bigherb]

How can you say that for sure? How do you know people didn't use "Haze" as a slang in circles back then? To state something as fact you need rock solid evidence to be credible.

The genetics could be related. By all reports, "Haze" was different every year and, with every plant, there would be diversity due to open pollination and the use of seeds instead of the same clone parents and production plants.

Just as MM could be related to those two as well - things were done differently before the whole finding of outstanding plants, cloning them, and using the same parents every time for making a "strain". There were imports coming and going from the same places.

People today would not believe what it was like before you had easy access to seed banks. You had to grow a lot of shit weed to find the good herbs. With places like Mr Nice, even the shittiest of plants are 1000x better than some of the shit I have grown looking for something to clone.

I appreciate your passion, but to be taken seriously as a writer, you need to write with no bias and report all sides that you can. With out having stock of all of them from back in their heyday and DNA tests, there is no way to be sure. Unfortunately, there is no way to get that material and verify it due to the nature of the business.

Besides - the mystery keeps it interesting. Let people make their own decisions with all the evidence you can present.

sup brother

i dont use the word fact much at all

id like to add that i always state the truth ,i only claim fact as to my experience


i dont wish to be a writer im a horrible typer and i have bad grammar. id rather be a speaker ,but wit my NY accent that wouldnt go so well ,i better stick to my day job n night job rollin blunts

slang has nothin to do with authenticity ,if it wasnt from the cruz it wasnt haze

well im sure that haze wasnt from niether boel or hawaii just as much as im sure that the originator is doin quite well


1luvbigherb

 

[british_hempire]

.boel n hawaii have notin to do with haze neither does a dragon

You can't say that with any degree of certainty. I heard the story twice from two different people in two different countries. Not saying it is wrong but I am saying you don't know it is.

For reference's sake, here's a compendium of some of Sam's posts on Haze, seeing as he isn't here to speak:

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
Don't know who Hooteroll is, except I don't think they post here on IC.
I am glad you three were the Haze Brothers, and you are just smokers, and I am sure you did get "R" toasted for the High Times article. And I am the first to admit that the two real Haze Bros "the growers" did not call them selves Haze Bros until long after the High Times article came out, so what does that mean?
First of all if you were just a Haze smoker and seller when was the first year you saw and smoked the Original Haze? I saw a lot, all of each seasons grows, and had my choice if I wanted it, but I did not sell herb, I did have a few friends that only sold Original Haze from the two Haze growers and they did move a lot, a real lot, Lb's or more every week, if it was available. If you were smoking Thai back east before you saw the Original Haze then it was a bit later then the Original Haze was first available.
The $250 an ounce price was I bet from R.L. around 1976-1977 that was when prices were the highest due to low stock to sell. The Oz's were in antique redwood fruit boxes with a poster cut up and stuck to the outside of the box and two 1 OZ stickers sealing the box sides shut. I remember Root Beer very well it was around for maybe 10 years before it just disappeared from the Haze genepool, like most of the Purple Haze genes. I helped save the Original Haze from extinction, with the blessing of R.L. and the other Haze Brother, the 2 Original Haze growers. We were next door neighbors, friends, and more. Glad you enjoyed the Original Haze, shame we did not make clones back then....
But the best Original Haze plants were before I saw clones a few years later.
PS I do have an Original Haze poster signed by R.L. he gave it to me in 1976, we, the three of us had been growing and smoking Original Haze for years already.

-SamS

Funny, I still know them and they both said point blank no way.
BTW One of the Haze Bros spent all of the 80's & 90's in Mexico retired, the other Haze grower had quit growing Original Haze in 1980 because he found Skunk #1 easier to grow. Niether ever made large batches of seeds, and as far as I know neither had any Original Haze seeds left by the early 1980's when Neville got them from the Haze Bros??? And they both clearly said they did not sell Neville anything, or even meet him.

Remember that Shantibaba was not around when Neville claimed to get Original Haze Seeds from the Haze Bros, he may well have been told this by Neville but it does not make it true. Neville has been know to bend the truth more then once, and has lied to me more then once, when it was to his advantage.

-SamS

I am sure Shantibaba would tell the truth if he knew the truth, but he was told these FACTS by Neville whom I know tells lies. But please no more about this, I find it upsetting too argue the facts with someone that has them second or third hand. It is a waste of my time to be honest I don't like it.

I mean Neville sold all my varieties to Sinsi Seeds when he closed the Seed Bank, for big $ and then I told Ben they were never Neville's to sell in the first place and I had spent years developing them, I don't blame Ben but I do think Neville is not someone that you go to to find the truth, unless it is to his advantge to tell the truth.

-SamS

It is absurd that neville said he got 1969 O Haze seeds from the Haze Bros.
#1 Neville first traveled to USA in 86 or 87 at the earliest, the main Haze Brother, R was gone, retired in Mexico by 82 he did not come back for 10 years. He was the one that created O Haze. The second Haze Brother J quit growing O Haze about 1980 and only grew Skunk #1 after that, until he became a reborn christian, then he quit growing, and anyway recently he told me he never met Neville and he certainly did not sell any Haze seeds to him or anyone else ever.
#2 The Haze Bros had a falling out in the late 70's and stopped talking to one another, for certain they did not sell seeds as the Haze Bros to anyone, it is ridiculous as well as impossible.
Lets be honest Neville got the seeds from me, but he had promised me that he would not make pure Haze and sell them as such, I told him it was fine to make Haze hybrids with other varieties that were not mine.
He broke his word and started selling Haze pure and hybrids with my varieties, and I stopped working with him.
Maybe he lied to avoid the problems that accompany breaking your word? I can not say, but I know Neville did not meet the Haze Bros and did not get any O Haze seeds from them. Both the Haze Bros were close friends of mine and both were close neighbors for years, J lived a few hundred meters from my house until he departed to Mexico.

-SamS

Skunk #1 and Original Haze were famous for a decade or more before Neville ever even thought of selling seeds, wise up. Neville did ship to anyone across internetional borders, something I told him was stupid and would put him in jail. Who was right? When I met Neville he had zero good seeds, he was selling imported Mex seeds and Colombian seeds and African seeds from coffee shop weed for $.25 cents each. They were crap. I gave him Skunk #1 and a few others and he repaid me a few years later by copying my varieties and selling them himself cutting me out, after promising he would not.
You were not there but RCC was there and can back me up, but what the hell, why am I arguing with someone that has no idea what really happened as it was between me and Neville and you are just repeating a story that was told to you by people that believed Neville and thought he was a man of his word, but he is not.

Yes Purple Original haze was absolutely a reality. It was around for more then a decade in the late 60's , 70's, and from then on in the form of hybrids. It came in silver, blue, reddish, as well as purple, and almost black. I grew, smoked, saw them all. They were real.

-SamS

To be honest the purple Hazes were maybe stronger but not as clear or as up and high. I liked the lime greens with maybe a bit of Thai blood. I do remember a med dark purp Haze that tasted just like root beer, amazing. I also had a Kerala that tasted just like Vics Metholated it was Camphor for sure, strong as hell but not as clear as I like.
I grew mex seeds from a bag of weed in 1965.

-SamS

OHaze was fairly consistant as F1's but by the time it was f5 and above it segregated out into many different related lines.

I have not worked Original Haze as much as tried to save it, I collected as much seed as I could in the early 70's grew them and did free pollinations and did minimal selection to ensure I saved as many genes as I could. That was in the 70's & 80's now I have clones for the last 20 years. My O Haze is not done being worked on that is why I tell people to use it as breeding materials.

-SamS

I don't think ot1 was lying, he had been misled, I knew Wernard from 1984 he got seeds and Haze 19 as he called it from me.

-SamS

G13 is not from University of Miss, I have been to the facility, I was invited to visit by Dr El Sohly , I asked them about G13 and they looked in their records and said they never had a plant called G13, they did not even have clones until a few yeas ago.

I know I always selected for large calyxs with Original Haze, and it was not so hard as OHaze has big calyxs anyway.

Yes I introduced California Orange.

-SamS

THERE WERE NO FOUNDING MEMBERS OF SACRED SEEDS, JUST ME!
And I have never met any Sandy Wienstien, ever.
Early Girl was not bred by Sandy Wienstien, and Durban Poison South Arican was developed by me alone, then I took it to Amsterdam. The same with Afghani #1, me alone. And I made up using #1, #2, #3, as I had so many imported seed lines I did not name them until I used them to make seeds, instead of just trialing them.

Purple Haze was Original Haze with Columbian bloodlines.

-SamS

It had several Colombian lines like Santa Marta Gold, Wacky weed.
You must remember that Purple colors can be induced in some clones by cold, while other lines turn purple regardless of temps.

-SamS

A 8-10 week Haze could be made. It would require an Original Haze that was a bit faster, crossed with a very early Sativa like my S African Durban Poison. Then select the F1's for Haze taste & smell & potency and as fast flowering as possible and make F2's.

The males may need to be trialed for specific combining ability to the females and to test their progeny to be sure you have the fastest most Hazy male.

If you grow out enough F2's you will find one that is Haze but fast flowering. But it may take a few hundred or even thousands of plants to find what you really want, a fast flowering Haze.

This will give you a clone that is what you want, a fast flowering Haze, but if you want a seed line that is fast flowering and basicly Original Haze it is a whole lot more work, all the males and females need to be progeny tested before the best are selected to yield only fast flowering Original Haze's.

I made Original Haze X early Sativa crosses, but did not make the F2's I just was playing around to see what happened. They were a bit earlier, between the O Haze and the Sativa, but not a super fast Haze like you want. It is not so hard to do, I have even made O Haze F2 hybrids that looked and tasted and smelled like O Haze but they had no THC, I crossed them with a very very low THC variety to see what happened and in the f2's I found plants that everyone who saw them would swear were potent Haze, but they had almost no THC or Cannabinoids. They did smell and taste great.

-SamS

 

[british_hempire]

if it wasnt from the cruz it wasnt haze

How does a kid from nyc know that for sure?

Sam lived in Corralitos, Santa Cruz and he reckoned the Haze bros lived next to him. Apart from Sam, what other source is there for suggesting Haze originated in Santa Cruz? Only Rob Clark's writings, maybe Ed R said the same too, but apart from those guys, what evidence at all is there for Haze coming from Santa Cruz?

 

[Nevil]

Still, pussy is a powerful thing - the most powerful thing known to man. It isn't ethical.

LOL finding the one that fits is called "the Gypsies Curse", from a book by Harry Crews. Once you find it, you won't be happy with another.
N.

 

[british_hempire]

I thought 'The Gypsie's Curse' was getting seeds that didn't germ! lol

 

[bigherb]

BH

I dont like to be negative but your killin me,ihad enough

when i seen your post about TH in the apology thread i wanted to reply ,but i held back until now

Not in a bad mood or angry really just bothered by how fake you really r

i dont wanna even get into it becaz your not worth it but how about your post #165 in Is nevilles haze stillthe strongest haze thread at IC dont ya think nev seen it n thats aside from ya pms


WHO R U

i can say whatever i wish to say ,as many of you do and have even posted articles with incorrect info

.i dont ever claim fact unless it is soo ,such as my experiences,I listen more than speak except when it comes to haze


i dont know wen you had to grow up but i anint been a kid since 13 brother


RCC was in the cruz aswell AS HOOTEROLL ,who was attending college but he didnt tell me that ,maybe you could add some more

IM not sure wat your point of posting SAMS post was ,but seems it wasnt much a bother

i know i wont reply to ur next post and i know you dont know nothin aboutthe true origins.

 

[british_hempire]

You crack me up, your first post was a couple of years ago and you knew nothing, since then you've interrogated people over and over asking endless innane questions and now all of a sudden you know better than everyone else.

What about my post about Tom Hill? The way he was ranting was distasteful and made him look bad, that's how it appeared to my eyes.

Go ahead and quote that post, I said nothing I wouldn't stand by now.

 

[Ronin]

You crack me up, your first post was a couple of years ago and you knew nothing, since then you've interrogated people over and over asking endless innane questions and now all of a sudden you know better than everyone else.

What about my post about Tom Hill? The way he was ranting was distasteful and made him look bad, that's how it appeared to my eyes.

Go ahead and quote that post, I said nothing I wouldn't stand by now.

TH has really surprised me lately. I was thinking of adding him as the "3rd" to my small list of people I get seeds from. I had heard about him being "old school" and "true to the herb" type of guy. I can feel the love and good karma in the product I get from Shanti's work - I don't want to feel that negative, condescending, holier than thou anger he projects.

If his weed makes you act like him - I don't want it.

There is more than one "right way".

 

[british_hempire]

Yeah, Tom used to act differently, like you, I've been surprised in him lately, he's ridicules some members, they deserved it, but I didn't expect TH to rip into someone like he did.

I have a pack of Tom Hill Haze sat here, miht have to try germing em sometime soonish.

I have tried grown his Deep Chunk, found it to be garbage, quite honestly, no bud to speak of, just resin encrusted leaf and the thing has no vigour left at all, the taste is horrid and the potency is so-so, I've grown far better Afghanis. To me, the one positive trait it had was the resin production and only a couple of the ones I had were special in that regards, most of them were nothing special in that regard.

I don't have any particular beef with TH just his recent behaviour and support of the Skunkman has made me look at him in a less favourable light than before.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

LOL on DeepChunk

I was so excited a year or so ago when I got a pack of DC seeds. I absolutely hated that stuff. It looked real cool. The flavor was weird, low yield, super short slow veg plants. I think it needs to be crossed with something. Its no good in its present form, except as a breeder.
I did make at least half a dozen hybrids with it last year.

 

[bodhi]

dc shines in hybrids, if you can find something dominant enough to enter into the genetic cage match with it. it eats hybrids, needs an inbred partner.......... otherwise you get hash cabbage....



theres haze still in the cruz, just up in the mountains..... so many new growers obsessing on kush, chems and purples it gets lost in the fray......

ill see if i can get a pic of a haze tribute flyer from the sc old days, its hanging in the local club.....

 

[ortega_seeker]

Quite a compilation of history.. I can't believe no one has ever mentioned that Mel Frank has claimed credit for bringing the original Durban Poison to Holland. He claimed it was from the Bay area and he brought it over as a clone and spread to several seed companies. He had some other interesting comments from that era in the article (an interview with Skunk magazine) wish I still had a copy.

Unrelated topic but back on CW there was a huge thread between "DrHaze" and "VicHigh" in which imo drhaze came off looking a little slow and guilty of viewing the cannabis world through a very small lens. Vic was convinced that Dr Haze was nevil and stated so but now that the facts of Sams many persona's come to life it seems very likely "Dr Haze" was actually Sam. Yet another alias to add to sam's list! Sure seems suspicious that a "Sam Selgnij" is a co writer in Ed's R's earlier books too... hmmm

 

[wonkadonk]

funny how sensi still uses pics from 96

No doubt, it's ridiculous. Some of them are even older I think.

 

[british_hempire]

Quite a compilation of history.. I can't believe no one has ever mentioned that Mel Frank has claimed credit for bringing the original Durban Poison to Holland. He claimed it was from the Bay area and he brought it over as a clone and spread to several seed companies. He had some other interesting comments from that era in the article (an interview with Skunk magazine) wish I still had a copy.

Unrelated topic but back on CW there was a huge thread between "DrHaze" and "VicHigh" in which imo drhaze came off looking a little slow and guilty of viewing the cannabis world through a very small lens. Vic was convinced that Dr Haze was nevil and stated so but now that the facts of Sams many persona's come to life it seems very likely "Dr Haze" was actually Sam. Yet another alias to add to sam's list! Sure seems suspicious that a "Sam Selgnij" is a co writer in Ed's R's earlier books too... hmmm

Sam has a lot of aliases, he used several at overgrow as well as the sam_skunkman one, at CW he was 'knowsitall4sure' and probably others.

Sam Selgnij sounds like Sam Selezny, could well be him.

Ed denied working with Sam but we know that it was Ed who accompanied Sam to Holland and introduced him to people as Dave Watson.

Ed is a wierd character, several people have told me they think he's a bit mad, certainly dressing up in a green superhero suit as 'Can Man' was strange behaviour.

The whole American group that came to Holland is dodgy as hell, most of the Dutch avoided them, it is telling that the people who worked with them who we all know are good-hearted fellows all got the hell away from that scene, I'm thinking of Wernard Bruining and Shantibaba primarily, they were both too nice and too idealistic for that world of liars and frauds. Jorge Cervantes always seemed a really nice bloke and he stayed away from the controversial figures pretty much. If you think about it, since Green Merchant in the early 80s, the scene has been totally dominated by Sam Skunkman, Rob Clarke and Ed Rosenthal, they had control over High Times which was the only vehicle for getting informaion widespread after Sensimilla Tips closed. Soma is good friends with Sam and there are a ton of stories about Soma that are all ddogy as hell as well.

That De Tijd article from 97 really does cover the post 1985 story on Sam and his cadre pretty well, it's pretty shocking reading. Sam had to leave the cannabis scene in Holland in the mid-90s when revelations were made and as it says in that De Tijd article, his money left Holland too, via Luxembourg. Obviously, Sam could no longer worm his way into the scene and gather info as he had done before (think of the dossier the Aussie police had prepared by Sam) so the DEA and it's allies lost their 'inside source'. The Soma arrives in Holland, coincidental timing? If the stories I've heard about Soma before he came to Holland are true, he's as dodgy as the skunkman, but I'll not write the story here as I don't know for sure if it's true, whereas we do know the skunkman tales are true from the De Tijd article, the Vpro radio show, Nev's experiences with the law in Australia in the early 90s and some other verified sources.