What is really what?? MNS “children”

TGTDE

TGTDE

Well-known member
Hey all, so after some extensive roaming of this website, and others over the years I have noticed members mention other breeders potentially using MNS genetics as their start off (sometimes with permission).

** I promise I’m not trying to start a war!**

People have mentioned various well known strains either being potential phenos of an already established MNS strain / or hybrid involving a specific MNS strain. Or they simply mentioned casually that they grew out a MNS plant and it reminded them of a well known strain from another breeder. There is a strong consensus across the internet (which is rare) that MNS genetics are top notch, and I’d like to continue exploring the massive collection I’ve ammassed but I really don’t even know where to start.. If I had more of an idea what MNS strains were similar or threw similar phenos to some other popular/ mainstream strains I feel like it would help guide my journey.

For example I believe I once read someone say Jack Herer is either similar to Super Silver Haze, or perhaps they thought it could have originated as a NL5xHaze Pheno (I don’t exactly remember). I know people say SSH, Amnesia Haze and some others are all SSH or phenos of it. I know there’s a whole thread dedicated to people claiming the famous New York Uptown Piff could very well be a specific Mango Haze pheno (that one I think was discussed on a different forum). And just today I read someone mentioning something about them losing or looking for a Deisel pheno within a MNS strain that they mentioned being sour.

I’m not trying to say Sour Deisel, Jack Herer or Uptown Piff are all MNS genetics, but I think it’d be benifical to compile a bit of a catelog describing what MNS strains you may be able to find phenos that are similar (or have similar qualities) to more mainstream / popular strain names. I know OG and Kush are talked about all the time but I personally wouldn’t know where to start within the MNS catelog looking for a plant with Kush or OG qualities.

I also recently saw some photos on this site of what looked like an MNS strain catelog that also included some more popular named strains, I believe the one that caught my eye was “Gorilla Glue” and it seemed to be being portrayed as a MNS strain in the listing.. did Shanti team up with someone and create gorilla glue?? I have heard Shanti has collaborated with other breeders in the past but I’d just love to know more about what strains may have come from where, and specific qualities come from various linages of plants.

Sorry if this post is all over the place, and @musashi if a thread of this type is too controversial or starts going in a negative direction feel free to delete it.
 
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TGTDE said:
Hey all, so after some extensive roaming of this website, and others over the years I have noticed members mention other breeders potentially using MNS genetics as their start off (sometimes with permission).

** I promise I’m not trying to start a war!**

People have mentioned various well known strains either being potential phenos of an already established MNS strain / or hybrid involving a specific MNS strain. Or they simply mentioned casually that they grew out a MNS plant and it reminded them of a well known strain from another breeder. There is a strong consensus across the internet (which is rare) that MNS genetics are top notch, and I’d like to continue exploring the massive collection I’ve ammassed but I really don’t even know where to start.. If I had more of an idea what MNS strains were similar or threw similar phenos to some other popular/ mainstream strains I feel like it would help guide my journey.

For example I believe I once read someone say Jack Herer is either similar to Super Silver Haze, or perhaps they thought it could have originated as a NL5xHaze Pheno (I don’t exactly remember). I know people say SSH, Amnesia Haze and some others are all SSH or phenos of it. I know there’s a whole thread dedicated to people claiming the famous New York Uptown Piff could very well be a specific Mango Haze pheno (that one I think was discussed on a different forum). And just today I read someone mentioning something about them losing or looking for a Deisel pheno within a MNS strain that they mentioned being sour.

I’m not trying to say Sour Deisel, Jack Herer or Uptown Piff are all MNS genetics, but I think it’d be benifical to compile a bit of a catelog describing what MNS strains you may be able to find phenos that are similar (or have similar qualities) to more mainstream / popular strain names. I know OG and Kush are talked about all the time but I personally wouldn’t know where to start within the MNS catelog looking for a plant with Kush or OG qualities.

I also recently saw some photos on this site of what looked like an MNS strain catelog that also included some more popular named strains, I believe the one that caught my eye was “Gorilla Glue” and it seemed to be being portrayed as a MNS strain in the listing.. did Shanti team up with someone and create gorilla glue?? I have heard Shanti has collaborated with other breeders in the past but I’d just love to know more about what strains may have come from where, and specific qualities come from various linages of plants.

Sorry if this post is all over the place, and @musashi if a thread of this type is too controversial or starts going in a negative direction feel free to delete it.
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These are questions I’ve asked myself for decades.
I believe you must return to the beginning which was 1987 for me when I saw my first dutch seed catalogs “plural” .
SSSC and The Seed Bank were my first experiences with any cannabis seed not from a baggie.
Nevil was the first to mail seeds world wide.
Now Sam S did have a seed bank state side before Nevil but good luck buying his seeds back then! You really had to know someone to get access.
Nevil’s first hybrids were unique and like nothing anyone had ever seen.
Even Humbolt was amazed, that’s why they bought Sooo many of his seeds.
Mexico bought thousands too but didn’t understand f1 and f2 hybrids and the difference when you inbred two f1’s therefore screwing up some really fine sweet herb and giving me strong reasons to grow my own.
Bingo!
Nevil made that happen.
The only really fine herb from SSSC was their M9 skunk which to this day I have never found an equal in skunk types.
Nevil , however made and sold many hybrids that later became and still are foundational parents.
Before SSH seeds there was NL5 x HazeC (mom)
Before Nevils Haze there was NL5 Haze A (mom)
Before there was Mango Haze there was NL5 Haze C (mom )
SSH and Mango are sisters, different dads
NL1 was the male line Nevil like and actually sold this seed briefly in a pure NL1 form.
Man what a gift to the world. You might find an OG cousin in there. He sold some stuff called Swazi that sold out fast and never re released. Who knows why maybe timeline and legal matters then .I don’t know. Maybe some famous cousins there too.
The flavor and aroma profiles will tell you more than any name will.
Like begets like and always has. Occasionally though two likes create a unique offspring.
Two black hair dark eyed parents have been known to have blue eyed and fair hair children.
No one can really answer these questions with any real facts other than personal experiences and again opinions.
When I smoke really good herbs sometimes it reminds me of days past and different smokes I know cannot be relate due to time and location.
But yet the similarities are uncanny and reminiscent of past experiences.
To me haze is Columbian , that’s what my nose tells me and I was fortunate to have smoked it right off the boat. The Hindu Kush is the only known pure kush I ever smoked and it wasn’t nice. But was super strong and resinous. G13
😂 who knows where that came from, no guesses here. But you never heard of it before Nevil sold it and neither did I.
I never heard of Northern Lights before Nevil sold it. I never heard of Haze before Nevil sold it and neither did very many others.
So a wise and reasonable man who is old enough to have watched all this unfold over the decades could say.
Yes Nevil is responsible for so many hybrids that he didn’t even make himself because he made the parents is a sound and damn accurate statement!
IMO ✌️
 
quinxstar said:
master kush X skunk
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The stones may be closer to the emerald triangle x Hindu Kush (or og kush)

OG kush (and her sister triangle) seem to be very indica, despite being stretchy at the onset of flower, and having a creative high that, while calming, isn’t sedative in the manner of many afghans. Marty doesn’t know what the emerald triangle plant was, although he didn’t like it so he tried growing some Hindu Kush he bought at the castle in 89 during a grow which lead the the seeded bud which gave og and tk.

I know that the folks who actually made sour diesel (which was not chem x super skunk x nl/Hawaiian obviously … obviously) lived in Gainesville fl, where soma was from, and that there was a sativa planted named triangle in the 70s. Perhaps it was the emerald triangle, or perhaps the emerald triangle was an f1 of it; I could see skunk and nl5 in og/triangle kush.

I posted the image of a Mr nice gorilla glue 16 offering. Gorilla glue was not bred by Mr nice but shanti makes all sorts of luxuries for medical patients , and I presume he improved gorilla glue at some point. The most common cultivar of gorilla glue bred by Josey Wales was #4, so I bet shanti inbred it to improve it and was selling bulk seed bc some medical group needed less than he produced for them. I’ve hinted that I believe a mislabeled cut of u2 was involved with its breeding but I think that it’s not the case, as bog was not associated with that group, and that group disrespects his work.
 
dioecious said:
The stones may be closer to the emerald triangle x Hindu Kush (or og kush)
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the stones is a haze hybrid they are no link with the kush

the master kush is very similiairy to the bruce banner who are a og kush cross

i have already grow the 2 strains

they are proach in taste an effect

if you search a kush in mister nice seeds you will found it in the master kush skunk
 
quinxstar said:
master kush X skunk
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Okay that’s embarrassing 😂 master Kush would obviously be best place to start looking for Kush 😂 I’m not even high right now lol. Oops. Thanks tho!!

Not necessarily looking for just Kush and OG, just used them as an example. Probably most interested in Sour Diesel of the strain names I dropped. I feel like my Mango Haze plant #7 has a very similar effect to some online SD I bought years ago.
 
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Conscious of arguing mostly theoretically, I am adamant that this house is the only true source of relatively unmodified genetics today.

One part is the naming; In my opinion, at the very beginning, back then, there was something like a nomenclature for the varieties, based on the guiding principle origin x origin = name. An unwritten law among the peacefully working herb and seed producers. Just think, the offer available today is not based on really many varieties and people, a lot of it is crap crossed in its own circle of acquaintances. That's why we're here. So, in the beginning everything was good and relatively easy to understand. And then the big business began. Fantasy strains with fantasy names were born plus lots of new seed banks with supposedly new genetic material.
The other part is handling the genetics; Shortly before it became confusing and no longer comprehensible, this house was built. How this house manages to be able to offer the genetics so little unchanged for so long remains a mystery to me, but its sales success is.

It should be noted that N. was not entirely alone;
There were other braves on the seed front, but N. had the biggest balls and sold worldwide. Incidentally, there are publications in which both an uncle of N. who is very knowledgeable about the subject and a gentlemen's agreement between two breeders (one of whom was N.) regarding the division of the world market are mentioned.

The whole thing applies from a European point of view and is my opinion.
 
quinxstar said:
the stones is a haze hybrid they are no link with the kush

the master kush is very similiairy to the bruce banner who are a og kush cross

i have already grow the 2 strains

they are proach in taste an effect

if you search a kush in mister nice seeds you will found it in the master kush skunk
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Stones is Master kush x skunk)( x (Hze ac) so there is a link to the Kush even if is haze 50%

-SaveTheBrains
 
From Blast from the Past thread:

Old
05-31-2007, 04:54 PM
Default

Hi All

just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969

Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines.

but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference

Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants

considering the Haze A is no longer a male alive, it still is alive in the ancestry of some of the plants used in all these breeds

I do not have secrets about breeding but given the same seed batches we could all still create something different...it boils down to selection.

La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.

There is no one other than Simon at serious seeds who follows breeding plants like we do.Most Dutch seed companies use females plants obtained from seed batches that were passed on to them or sent to them, making their origins a little doubtful at certain stages. The whole seed industry based alot of things on Neville's origins in fact , but none except Sensi Seed had the parent plants to replicate things time and time again. Whether plants dies or were lost to disease over the years...well most companies would probably not tell anyone, but think about it.How many back ups of parent plants would you need in how many countries to be sure never to loose an important line? As enforcement on growers gets more and more restricting rooms get found etc....and the law of averages catches up on you. My last problem with the Swiss authorities I lost all plants in my library...some 42 mum's and dad's...luckily we keep backup of all the most important plants in 5 different countries and have done for years...if we had not had done this then we too would have lost alot of heirlooms. I do keep original batches of seed from years ago also in several places just in case I have to go all the way back to the drawing board to do selection again...but that is as bad as it gets for us.

As you can see it is alot of work in alot of places to just keep things alive...not to mention the expenses and time factor involved.

Lastly just to clarify things to do with this site...well I do all the moderating alone plus the pms and all questions and answers....so if there is something wrong on this site it is me who made it. I have a webman to do the technical aspects but all content and daily admin of the site is up to me. Howard will be helping in a limited way one day but he is a busier person than anyone else I know. Nev is not one for public life or cyberspace...and due to family committments is happy to do some work on plants but nothing else.So I am afraid you are all dealing with Shantibaba...whether you like it or not.

All the best now off to Bologna for a 3 day fair....take care
__________________
ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

"Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner." -Lao Tzu

all the best,
Shantibaba
http://www.mrnice.nl
 
TGTDE said:
Okay that’s embarrassing 😂 master Kush would obviously be best place to start looking for Kush 😂 I’m not even high right now lol. Oops. Thanks tho!!

Not necessarily looking for just Kush and OG, just used them as an example. Probably most interested in Sour Diesel of the strain names I dropped. I feel like my Mango Haze plant #7 has a very similar effect to some online SD I bought years ago.
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i never found something like diesel in mister nice seeds
 
I started smoking the clone og kush (before it had that name) in 1995 and I’ve never seen any true kush that resembled it, nor combination of kush, afghan, or skunk. Progeny testing the plant shows a general combining ability with hybrids, and I’ve not found a nick with pure sativas or afghans like you’d expect with a pure kush. If you’ve ever flowered the clone or her prettier sister, they stretch like hybrids, and the leaves are kinda weird, again like hybrids. I am absolutely sure there is no haze in og though, clearly the plants don’t resemble the stones grows we have documented.
 
TGTDE said:
I’m not trying to say Sour Deisel, Jack Herer or Uptown Piff are all MNS genetics, but I think it’d be benifical to compile a bit of a catelog describing what MNS strains you may be able to find phenos that are similar (or have similar qualities) to more mainstream / popular strain names.
Click to expand...

You´re not wrong with your post brethren. But you´re not re-inventing the world either with the above, its fairly established with the american heads that e.g. SourD has some Superskunk and NL in it, which would most likely descend from TSB which mostly lies in the MNS nest today. Uptown haze, piff. A5Haze phenos mostly, or whatever haze hybrid they pull a b-myrcene dom with linaool and little terpenoline.

As you go on the list you will find that indeed Shanti with the help of Nevil, Howard and many unsung heroes have laid the foundation for what we can sow, reep and smoke nowadays.

TGTDE said:
I know OG and Kush are talked about all the time but I personally wouldn’t know where to start within the MNS catelog looking for a plant with Kush or OG qualities.
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Ortega or Masterkush x Skunk.
 
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