The True Origins of Haze

  • Thread starter Thread starter bigherb
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Glad to see everything in nice and peaceful over here ... oh wait, wrong thread (lol)

What's up BH, hope you're feeling better. Not sure medically what you went through but i have you in my daily prayers :)

... so Tom sounds pissed ... BH sounds pissed. Ding ding ding

lol I'm kidding ... I just dropped in to say cheer up everyone. Shit happens.

It's tough to talk openly in an online forum without some negative discourse, these things will happen. Deep breath everyone ... Everyone here is entitled to their belief and opinion ... people are pissed and they feel they are entitled and that's okay ... hopefully we can work through/past this.

Cheers all ...
 
coop said:
Hey Tom how long you been working the haze now 17 years?
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i gotta roll with you on this one man.

i would feel disrespected if i was tom too, someone telling me how my line runs... ugh.


no shot to you bigherb at all, i look at things from an unbiased perspective. completely detached from the drama, and situation.

i feel you need to maybe put yourself in others shoes to grasp the gravity of some members' comments.
 
JetLife said:
i gotta roll with you on this one man.

i would feel disrespected if i was tom too, someone telling me how my line runs... ugh.


no shot to you bigherb at all, i look at things from an unbiased perspective. completely detached from the drama, and situation.

i feel you need to maybe put yourself in others shoes to grasp the gravity of some members' comments.
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Take a deeper look Put your self in my shoes

I was direspected bro long ago ,is it cool caz he's got a name where im from we respect those who show respect .No matter your title or stature


Below is where this punk ass chump started the beef take a walk in my shoes... feel me

post # 5959 ultimate sativa thread page 398
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=36181&page=398

As i mention to Raco as i have whenever asking for info it was respectfully ,then Tom comes from left field .Soo its best to know all the facts when making/forming a opinion


This cat (TH) came at me one day at IC an not in his forum about my persistant search to learn all i could about incense an my mention or excitement of hearin it mentioned .It had nothing to do with is line an was before any mention of it .He sent rep sayin somthin like it wasnt personal

I never disrespected anyone nor brought any negativity in my persuit .But my quest brought about animosity from a few ,an it wasnt the posters i was respectfully asking questions to .


Now as for the my quest on the origins of haze ,Here it is all wrapped in one .what's said now is speculations/opinions about what happen after G stopped working with the line soo what have i done .IN other words as biteme said ive put up the posted/quoted verison of events in FULL an gave my opinion .Just that my opinion an stated soo

All that will come now is agreements or disagreements ,but we see what happen which is an old story when haze convo gets sparked

Some say it will never be known i feel what has been revealed is the basic story an hope but very highly doubt any other detail from those involved will emerge

BTW

Ive never told the man has his line runs ,Ive just posted quotes from some folk who shared there experience with his line .Than i reminded him he admitted he never had experience with haze during the 70's soo he not the best person to compare stock from 15- 25 yrs later


To judge a man you should judge him from the struggles he survived an been threw not the success he has achieved


1luvbigherb
 
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coop said:
Hey Tom how long you been working the haze now 17 years?
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Yes and in that time I have sampled over 1000 individuals, I'm not sure if this guy Bigherb has smoked any at all. Anyway, the line does not have any sandalwood type flavor like the uptown or the more typical Dutch hazes. I've told him this, but he wants to argue the point with me based on his interpretation of what others have said etc. Now I got folk PMing me with hoodie-jive crap like "yo tom, hit me wit some a dat uptown homie, been reading Bigherbs posts and bla bla bla". Then I have to explain to them that Bigherb doesn't know wtf he's talking about regarding my lines etc, It's a big pain in the ass. I reckon Bigherb thinks it's funny, I don't. It goes with the territory though I suppose.
 
TomHill said:
Yes and in that time I have sampled over 1000 individuals, I'm not sure if this guy Bigherb has smoked any at all. Anyway, the line does not have any sandalwood type flavor like the uptown or the more typical Dutch hazes. I've told him this, but he wants to argue the point with me based on his interpretation of what others have said etc. Now I got folk PMing me with hoodie-jive crap like "yo tom, hit me wit some a dat uptown homie, been reading Bigherbs posts and bla bla bla". Then I have to explain to them that Bigherb doesn't know wtf he's talking about regarding my lines etc, It's a big pain in the ass. I reckon Bigherb thinks it's funny, I don't. It goes with the territory though I suppose.
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The only thing funny is your manner ,or u think you have Ohaze stock

I dont like you but im not the type to mess with a mans business .I will never have respect for you but i wont mention your line again

Tom ive grown your line for the first time this summer

As you've said it has a high female ratio ive got 3 females from 4 seeds .Due to circumstance (not being in my hands )i chopped it early maybe 2nd week of november outdoors ,due to other factors of heavy rains without protection an that october snow fall she went threw rough conditions an i cant give a fair description ,But ive shown a friend who post pics an i would give it another run caz this line is vigorous an a solid yielder .Though effects an taste werent what they could be .The aromas were nothin sweet

I havnt said uptown an i understand incense is abroad term .But several IC posters have used the description is all ive posted .When i said colombian traits it was in reference to both spice an rootbeer aswell .

I havnt ran around promoting your line or sayin its Da uptown ,for you to mock my writing or the NY lingo also shows your a clown .

Remeber fool check the link in my above post ,you called me out on my passion for incense which lead to me pullin up those post an making my point which you still twist

Ive got 50 plus seeds ,when i get a chance to run a few ill share my experience .But im not really itchin to grow emm out after all this No INCENSE WTF :D

OG kill dat noise ,If ya dont know my name dont say

GROW UP Son
 
I don’t know... I am just happy that Tom is stopping by.

Let’s not disrespect him BH. To many things that can be shared if things were a little more social.

While the hacks are s1ing the Indy market, let’s figure out what we can do about inbreeding to Hz.

I think maristem culture is where it would be at for somebody that is lucky to posses p1 stock of special plants. If we could apply the same thought as Mr. Dogless work with g13, I am sure we could see A5 on the scene and hopefully this time in the hands of somebody that is looking for the male to back cross to the clone only. Not to mention the possibility of reselection and making a brand new A5 line. Maybe playing god a bit... but for preservation and future lines, I think it worth a try.

My new experience with NH was great, and I could see how running as many packs as possible would give me the arco for many strains on the market today. I am not going to much on the experience but liver/leather, catpiss, and inscense were there. Fast vs. late flowering, yielders and runners of wispyness were also presnt. How Chana can make a hz plant hermie in 100 days :eek:. That first grow and then the next three after that taught me a lot about hz gardening. Sambo shared much too. Big up YS...

Mr. Hills line I found undertones of pine that when smoked had this chalky type of expansion... sourish but different to anything I smoked. Seemed most of what was had in TH was very similar, which I personally liked, given all the diffrent ones in NH being run at the same time. TH is also great for indoor.

From my understanding Nevil says Hz is difficult to inbreed. This brings me back to breeding vs. hacking.

Tom could you share some thought on the 1000's of individual you cultivated and what some of your criteria for selection was/is with hz. I would love to flip the switch on this thread... not trade secrets Mr. Hill maybe some direction on what to look for with p1's in mind... and looking for special mates.

Also any thought on Hz males being better for breeding vs female...

To the future half packs of NH and TM left.

Chana aka Tommy Nice
 
Grow some plants BH . You gave me a good laugh with your observation that his line has a high female to male ratio based on those 4 seeds you popped.
 
LOL Bigherb,

You just don't want to hear it, not even from the horses mouth. If anyone is an authority on so called Original Haze, its Tom Hill.

I have been trying to explain this to you for the better part of a year and you just don't seem to get it.

There is no incense or church or sandalwood pheno in Sam's Ohaze.

Me and Tom have our differences and it is said that there is no accounting for taste, however I don't think anybody in the know has ever questioned Tom's honesty and integrity as a breeder. I certainly don't.

If Tom Hill says that the sandalwood and incense pheno are nonexistent in Ohaze, it means just that.

You should show a little respect for your elders.

Most Original Haze comes to us Via Positronics or Flying Dutchman and it is all from the same source: Sam S. According to Sam S Original Haze is a special variety of Haze which he acquired from the "hayes brothers"(of which there were 2 not 3) and reworked by Sam S. Himself for several generations before it's release by Sam to numerous sources in Holland.


Lets not forget that according to Sam S. The haze brothers were not even breeders at all but rather they were growers who had connections to the best sativa imports, and "got lucky" with the haze.

Seedbank Haze on the other hand which also comes from Sam S. is a very different story. Seedbank Haze was from original Haze brothers' seed collection, seeds which, although they had been acquired from the Haze Brothers by Sam S., had never been worked, or even selected by Sam S.


Whichever few 20+ year old seeds that had sprouted from that ancient collection that Nevil purchased from Sam, so many years ago, they were totally unique.

And they contained that elusive Pheno, the so called "Church Pheno" which you place so much importance on.


It is not a coincidence that New York City haze appeared right around the same time that the Seedbank was shipping thousands of Haze seeds to New York, in the late eighties and early nineties.

I acquired my haze from the Seedbank at around the same time.

It is not a coincidence that in New York City, in some circles haze was being called "Church Weed".

There is a reason why Nevil was Dubbed:

The King of Cannabis

It is all about the Seedbank, my friend, even to this very day.

People remember that pheno not in and of itself, but because they associate it with the most dynamite, ultimate stone that they have ever experienced.

You won't find that Sandalwood/incense pheno in the Original Haze Bigherb, but I have it right here, in my haze hybrids, which are descended directly from Seedbank Haze...

In fact I am puffing on some right now...

joshuahazen said:
A Crown for the King
jesterhhg2.JPG
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Source: http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4345-grail-ultimate-haze-hybrid-351.html
 
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cheers josh

that first 5hz at the katsu, 1993. Got me kicked out of my hotel bar cuz the owners daughter hated the smell( she was one of the bosses, ya dig? cheers to hotel the crown) Man, i miss her sooooooooo much. I had her once, she was gifted to me at the same time as the gravity, but sadly was lost in the war. I would give my left nut to get her back ( shoot, its been non-functional for years:D) IN HAZE WE TRUST.
 
Franky haze is the dominate pheno in KC Brains haze (which is itself a NH hybrid). Its like 20 bucks a pack BH, get a few. Shit, get one.
 
yeah, kc used old nevil haze

1 pack wont be enough to select tho, get a few ;) you can expect something as good as nh
 
Nevil says Hz is difficult to inbreed
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funny thing is, nobody tried it .. we all depend on hear n say stories, he said that she said that .. yada yada yada ... bla bla bla ...

now, if id would be the one to secure "breeding rights" to myself, id also would state, yeah its crap when inbred, ya know where im aiming at ;)

genetical info cant dissapear, easy as that ... true it aint easy with hazes (breeding), but such statements make no sense at all, like shanti said, yeah, he is bottlenecking quality, well same principle applys to haze too
 
Lol you guys ever smoke anything from uptown?

Big is spot on the quality of the 'street weed' as someone in here put it. I would bet that it's the same cut grown commercially in mass quantities (ny metro is a 20million person+ area) since at least 94/95 when I started to get it personally. It's amazing weed. I know that it flows from washington heights, & I know that they are getting the same product in Brooklyn, Harlem, and Jersey City NJ. People familiar with it say it could be the same as far north as Boston (I didn't smoke any in the year I lived on the cape), and through the southern cities down to Miami. I smoked a very good 'haze' in Miami, but it wasn't the uptown.

Before I put any credence behind the names attached to weed, I used to call it 'garbage' because it smelled like the most delicious rotting landfill smell you could imagine in the bag. Rotten but 100% floral, not at all foul. reminded me of standing in a booming veggie garden somewhere downwind of a landfill. The texture of the buds is different, too. It's like a dank velvety whisper from a pussywillow.

I had it pegged in my head as some crazy selection from the lands where all of the swag that flows through the heights is sourced from, or at least was at one time. Lot's of Carribbean & S.American cats up there. I've never smoked anything that is as pleasant an experience. Fukk me, I can smell and taste it just writing this up. :D
 
deran said:
funny thing is, nobody tried it .. we all depend on hear n say stories, he said that she said that .. yada yada yada ... bla bla bla ...

now, if id would be the one to secure "breeding rights" to myself, id also would state, yeah its crap when inbred, ya know where im aiming at ;)

genetical info cant dissapear, easy as that ... true it aint easy with hazes (breeding), but such statements make no sense at all, like shanti said, yeah, he is bottlenecking quality, well same principle applys to haze too
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or maybe trying to inbred polybrids is a difficult task. It is to some degree using a very small gene pool bit with wide variety of expressions.
 
PatrickStar said:
Lol you guys ever smoke anything from uptown?

People familiar with it say it could be the same as far north as Boston (I didn't smoke any in the year I lived on the cape)
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all the haze used to be from new york, If you knew people you where not getting it in the city. :cool:
 
Yeah I didn't know anyone except a white rapper in North Plymouth & my lil sis's friends @ B'water state. :p I went up there mostly for my lil sister's friends ;) :D :p :cool:

I smoked mostly the same buds from bridgewater that I have seen out here, they seem generally 'handled' less here. Purples n sours.

North Jersey was getting a different 'haze' mid-late 90's. Lol no one called it haze then. The uptown was called 'uptown' or the cats up there called it hydro. But the bud from Newark was called pep or branson. Similar effect, different bud. Little bit of skunkieness, same garbage/floral smells present. On exhale/afterburn instead of straight church it was first black pepper then church. I only got that in little bits, and for a few years, but that uptown is the SAME weed from the first time I smoked it in 93/94 to the last time when it was sourced in J.City ~18mo ago. J.City/Elizabeth also has some good haze of it's own, but there is more and more uptown there in the last ~5yrs.
 
Hey you know what I just got to thinking?

There was a large influx of west/central african immigrants that started to roll trough in the late 80's --> late 90's. Maybe uptown ain't haze at all. Maybe it's the African crazyweed??? :p
 
its something that has to be comercial enough to grow.

they have been selling .7 $20 bags for as long as I can remember.

I've been trying to source some of the elvis from 10-15 years ago but good luck if anyone knows what your talking about.
 
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