Strut your studs!

charlesufarley said:
This is the best, most succinct breeding advice for stabilizing a cannabis variety I've ever seen posted in this forum. I'm pretty sure it was Mu who posted this via Shanti, so thank him.

God, I wish I would have had this 25 years ago:

View attachment 82762
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Thank you, Charles! That's definitely some solid gold; and so concisely stated. Wonderful. I love it. Much appreciated, for taking the time to share it.

Cheers! - FF
 
Thanks @charlesufarley :)

Freedom_Fighter said:
Good day / evening to all you aficionados and breeders! In post #5, Swifty very kindly shared with us some precious golden nuggets dropped by the masters! They are all fabulous but the one that really spoke to me, or fascinated me the most is this, from Shantibaba:

"We used giberillic acid on male plants years ago to test to see if the male was a true male or had some intersexed traits associated with it. If you macho spray a male plant and it produces viable seed it will not be considered a true male dominant. So when you find a male plant that you wish to check this is a good initial indicator."

To me this is solid gold, although I'm not entirely sure of what he means by "macho" spray. Does anyone know what "macho" spray means?

This rule also seems to imply that any reversed female that produces "viable" pollen is not a true female either, but possesses "intersexed traits," as Shanti says. Unworthy for breeding with!!

Thank you, Swifty, for those "golden" nuggets! Great job!!

Cheers! - FF
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Stoxx said:
No, he said GA not colloidal silver. Sex in cannabis is still poorly understood. This is because it is very complex unlike in humans where XX is female, XY is male. You can have triploid (XXX, XXY, XYY, YYY?) and tetraploid (four sets). Moreover, even in pure females, extreme environmental factors can cause male parts to appear.

So there is the X and Y part of sex, but then the speculation is that there are separate genes that can affect plant hormones.

It is like if XX and XY control sex for humans but if there were another allele to fine tune estrogen or testosterone or such human hormone, then man boobs or butchy women may be possible on "pure males" and "pure females". It's not all so clear cut now is it?

So what SB was saying is if you spray GA in large amounts on males, that is a hormone that produces male parts. So if the true male is sprayed with male-ish hormone (to be sloppily lay-worded), it should not be affected. But a male with certain 'female' traits, either because it is triploid or tetraploid or otherwise somehow 'female'-ish or vulnerable to hermy tendencies, then spraying GA will cause the male to self-pollinate and produce seed. This male is undesirable is what SB is saying. He is giving us a piece of breeder gold and practical knowledge of how to get rid of hermies in males.

For females, the traditional way to get rid of hermy tendencies has been to apply environmental stress. Those that do not 'turn' are more desirable for future breeding.

Stoxx out
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For context:

xx female?

hi everyone this is my first post i got a question about xx female how is it posible a female got 2 x cromosomes one x from female and one from the male to form the pair if the male have only the y cromosome, so xx female can be found to self pollinating female seeds? and a 2nd one i have a 3...
mrnice.nl

mu
 
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Freedom_Fighter said:
AWESOME post (#62) with more solid gold (by Stoxx). Many thanks, Mu, for taking the time to share it with us. You have saved me much time, from mining the MNS archives to find precious insights like that! Priceless!!
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Since I gave you Shanti's brilliantly simple and ultimately superior developmental advice for cannabis, let me show you how we had to learn things, back in the day. I learned more from Vic High than I ever could have from Mendel or Robert Clark:



For any history buffs who might be reading this, and hopefully your voracious readers as well because there's a _lot_ of info on this page, you'll see how Mr Soul learned to develop C99. I was a fairly active participant in this discussion, just not as Charles U. Farley. ;)
 
charlesufarley said:
For any history buffs who might be reading this, and hopefully your voracious readers as well because there's a _lot_ of info on this page, you'll see how Mr Soul learned to develop C99. I was a fairly active participant in this discussion, just not as Charles U. Farley. ;)
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Hey charles, thanks very much for sharing that very helpful link. Wow, you weren't kidding about the wealth of information on that page. BOY, it's some solid gold. I'll download and save it, as I'd hate for that site to go down, and that info to be lost.

I don't know much about Vic High but I have to wonder if he had a degree in botany & was a professional horticulturist / plant breeder, by training; not just a cannabis breeder. It will take me some time, as an amateur, to really penetrate the true depth of what Vic shares there.

One distinct impression it left on me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of cannabis "breeders" really doing it right; due to the amount of work it actually involves. If they followed established breeding principles, (as Vic implies,) there wouldn't be nearly as many different strains on the market today, as there currently is. He states the following, for example:

"Most serious breeders learn to take small methodical steps and work on one or two traits at a time. Especially with inbreeding projects such as selfing and backcrossing."

So, if a breeder is working on just a single trait at a time, cubing (or quadrupling) the backcrosses, for that trait, it should take a very long time to complete the project; possibly a decade, or two. It's not hard to see how a breeder could easily dedicate 20 years to perfecting a single strain, using the old tried & true method(s). However, with the lab work available today, to breeders, (as Jodrey mentions in the video below,) the process can be considerably expedited.

Lady J comment on Nevil's breeding practice, states the following:

"Nevil backrossed six times to the earliest son before he called a strain stable. That's what he did to create nl#5 which was only a clone he got from the U.S. But more importantly, this was just the starting point. Once the sixth backcross is complete, the best indivuals both male and female were selected to start at least two separate lines, neither of which was the original plant. This was the p1 generation."

Not sure how accurate Lady J's comment is, but maybe you or Musashi could verify its accueacy for us. I found it to be very interesting, though I'm not quite sure how to understand her last sentence. Sounds like she says that 4 parents selected from the BX6, to start 2 parallel IBL lines from, are designated as the P1 generation.

She says Nevil didn't back-cross to the elite clone mom, but only to her son(s); which is a mystery to me. Is greater stability (& true breeding) achieved by not backcrossing to the elite clone mother?

According to Vic, though, "if the backcrossing continued indefinately with random selection of males and with large enough of a population size, the frequency of the P gene would max out at 50%. This means that the best that can be expected from cubing is 25% true breeding for," a single trait.

So, that raises the question about the possibility of increasing that true breeding "percentage" by further, more advanced methods of inbreeding? Lots of questions and things to discuss, on that golden page, but this isn't the appropriate thread for that exchange

Even after reading that page twice, I'm sure I'm barely scratching its surface.

Cheers! - FF

Kevin Jodrey: How I hunt breeder males.
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
One distinct impression it left on me is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of cannabis "breeders" really doing it right; due to the amount of work it actually involves. If they followed established breeding principles, (as Vic implies,) there wouldn't be nearly as many different strains on the market today, as there currently is. He states the following, for example:

"Most serious breeders learn to take small methodical steps and work on one or two traits at a time. Especially with inbreeding projects such as selfing and backcrossing."
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If you only select for one or two traits, as opposed to a plant that has it all relative to its Genome (potency, structure, yield, pest and mould resistance, flower time, whatever else you're into) then IMO you are wasting time with plants with one or two traits only.


Freedom_Fighter said:
So, if a breeder is working on just a single trait at a time, cubing (or quadrupling) the backcrosses, for that trait, it should take a very long time to complete the project; possibly a decade, or two. It's not hard to see how a breeder could easily dedicate 20 years to perfecting a single strain, using the old tried & true method(s). However, with the lab work available today, to breeders, (as Jodrey mentions in the video below,) the process can be considerably expedited.
Click to expand...

Freedom_Fighter said:
Lady J comment on Nevil's breeding practice, states the following:

"Nevil backrossed six times to the earliest son before he called a strain stable. That's what he did to create nl#5 which was only a clone he got from the U.S. But more importantly, this was just the starting point. Once the sixth backcross is complete, the best indivuals both male and female were selected to start at least two separate lines, neither of which was the original plant. This was the p1 generation."
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Thats why we are all so lucky to have access to the legendary genetics of the Shantibaba MNS cannalogue.

Maybe I am missing something? 🧠
I never understood what all the fuss is about Shanti's parent plants.
FFS the hybrids are better. Evolution.

If you go through 3 packs of each strain on the MNS cannalogue and select 1 mother and father keeper from each strain to make your own IBL.
You've got the best cannabis in the Universe.
Then start crossing those.
You've got more of the best cannabis in the Universe.

For some diversity, back ups, and to lock the plant into seed form I outcross some of mine at F1, like a F1 SSH#4 x F1 98BUB#9.

Howard, Nevil, and Shanti and no doubt a few others have already done a LOT of the hard work of selection for us.
 
I like that Nevilles stud Fish! Great find!

I have been using my Devil stud male pictured earlier in this thread to pollenate some different lines.
One line that has turned out quite exceptional in our testing is 7 of 9 Romulan x Devil stud

7 of 9 Romulan x Devil Studs found in the line:signal-2024-04-22-09-14-26-386.jpg signal-2024-04-22-09-14-12-596.jpg

Likewise the male has complimented its female seed progeny quite lovely too, females inheriting some larger solid bud structure, and bubblegum/skunk terpenes to compliment the already cakey, fruity romulan terpenes.
This line is a potential winner 👌
The female:
signal-2024-04-01-10-58-58-383.jpg
 
legacy.cannabis.nz said:
I like that Nevilles stud Fish! Great find!

I have been using my Devil stud male pictured earlier in this thread to pollenate some different lines.
One line that has turned out quite exceptional in our testing is 7 of 9 Romulan x Devil stud

7 of 9 Romulan x Devil Studs found in the line:View attachment 85289 View attachment 85290

Likewise the male has complimented its female seed progeny quite lovely too, females inheriting some larger solid bud structure, and bubblegum/skunk terpenes to compliment the already cakey, fruity romulan terpenes.
This line is a potential winner 👌
The female:
View attachment 85291
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Thanks legacy. I do like your devil stud that is an impressive find for sure!
 
Freedom_Fighter said:
Kevin Jodrey: How I hunt breeder males.
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Since Jodrey mentions Mean Gene (the Breeder) a couple times, in the above video, I thought it would be cool to post the following videos. His outdoor garden looks like a magical paradise, to my eyes.

Breeder Mean Gene's Magical Mystery Tour

Mean Gene Smoke Testing Exotic Connoisseur Cannabis

Mean Gene from Mendocino of Freeborn Selections

The Keeper Plants: Breeding with Mean Gene

ENJOY!! - FF
 
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Early Queen male from last summer. Wasn't looking for EQ last year. This year may be looking for EQ stud. Hoping to grow a few EQ for a selection this year. We'll see.

EQ MALE 2 P1080057.JPG


Master Kush Skunk X G13xAfghan Skunk male. Wasn't looking for one of these either. Looks like it might of been a good one for structure. A son of Mr. Fugly, looks a lot like his Dad. :love:

MKS x G13AfSk 1 male P1080072.JPG

Longball
 
longball said:
Early Queen male from last summer. Wasn't looking for EQ last year. This year may be looking for EQ stud. Hoping to grow a few EQ for a selection this year. We'll see.

View attachment 85990


Master Kush Skunk X G13xAfghan Skunk male. Wasn't looking for one of these either. Looks like it might of been a good one for structure. A son of Mr. Fugly, looks a lot like his Dad. :love:

View attachment 85991

Longball
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You gotta love the 'Fugly Bunch' :love:

MB
 
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