Mark's Angel's Breath - New Year's Haze

PlantManBee

Well-known member
ok, growing stuff.

The gnats are a symptom of something else (rotting vegetation). Killing them with any knockdown spray will only be a bandaid on an internal injury. You can slow them but they will come back to eat the feast of rotting plant matter. It's likey in your root zone, but could also be coming from other sources like the garbage or garbage disposal or compost pile.

Yellow sticky cards are a good way to reduce numbers without adding toxins. Someone intoduced a fallacy of "we get more toxins from ______". But that doesn't mean you have to say "screw it, I'm already getting toxins, give me all of them!"



Good luck.
 
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Def here that plant B...A growing discussion LOl... another "ORGANIC" way to get rid of them is a nice Actively Aerated Tea brew undiluted. For coco... :D. I usually hit my plants once a week. Havent had a pest problem in years. Very effective n stops them right in there tracks. No slow down in growth by under watering after your rootmass develops in coco and eliminates the problem instead of just reducing n tolerating. Deals with the problem right where they exist. In the medium... N you can hit plant foliage with it too. Nice white fluffy roots... No under watering... N plants Love it. I brew with Mammoth P but have brewed with myco-grow in the past pretty lovely product also n allot cheaper than Mammoth. For mammoth I only use like half a cap to inoculate the tea... molasses does the rest. Can be used in clonner as well after brew. The Mycogrow soulable 1oz packet is about $6 n last forever brewing tea. A thimble about the size of your pinky nail is enough to inoculate a 5Gal brew

http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-oz.html

This is the packet I use n was around far longer than most other microspore products on the market.

As for that fallacy http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/fes3.108/full LMAO Reading directions are definitely paramount to avoiding toxins for sure...LOl PM me n keep it out the thread... allot more data exist.
 
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Tip burn might not necessarily indicate a nutrient problem. Vapor pressure deficit and low humidity can cause tip burn also. What is your current humidity? Seeing as how it is winter I'm guessing pretty low? (possibility) Might not be much of an issue if that's the cause. If it is a nutrient prob that's easy to fix.
 
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Broseidon

Member
@OP
Re: Fungus gnats

Just one advice from my side:
Find out how you are getting them and get on that asap!

I couldn't figure it out for the longest time and had to completely shut down my grow for a month. Then I (thought I) had to get rid of my entire soil mix which cost me quite a bit of money and start an entire new batch of soil from scratch, which set me back another 2 weeks to a month.

In the end it seems like getting rid of my soil mix was not necessary....
The problem was apparently that I didn't PH my water and nutes were getting locked out. Combined with me using BioCanna Boost and Rhizotonic (which further messed up the soil) and the soil generally lacking nitrogen (buckwheat hulls apparently leeching nitrogen from the mix, bloodmeal pellets not being as readily available to the plants as bloodmeal powder would've been etc.).


That was it in the end and I am currently a month away from finishing a cycle and going into the next without issues. I have sighted the odd fungus gnat here or there but I am talking about seeing maybe 2 of them in the span of a month and the plants look great.
I'm currently at the point where I believe fungus gnats are always there but when your plants are healthy, they die as fast as they hatch. Only when your plants become unhealthy, do you see their population explode and the best way to fight them is to find out why your plants are unhealthy and fix that asap. I recently let my plants become rootbound, droopy and unhappy. A few of the clones died off because they had dried out too much to save. They were in the veg chamber like that for no longer than a day but when I found them, I had already noticed a fungus gnat flyer or two in the room. Once I removed the dead plants, replanted the rootbound ones to bigger pots, I saw no more gnats.

Back when I was infested, I also tried anything people suggested.
I tried nematodes, BTI (mosquito dunks), top-dressing with diatomaceous earth. Watering from the bottom, letting top dry out. Yellow strips to catch adults.
Everything. I really tried everything but the chemical route.
Basically there is something called "Imid" for short (Imidachloprid I believe) which basically will get rid of your gnat problem in one application.
Problem is that "Imid" is systemic. Meaning it gets "metabolyzed" by the plant. It becomes part of the plant. You would now be smoking poison basically if you were to harvest right after application.
But "Imid" suppliers and studies paid for by them, say that it is "absolutely safe" as long as you use it no closer than 4 weeks to harvest date.
You try that and let me know how it goes. I would rather shut down my grow for 2 months and spend hundreds to restart my soil. Your choice.


But whatever route you go, do not underestimate these fuckers.
I repeat: Do not underestimate them!

I was told again and again and again how harmless they are, how they are really the least of the pests, nothing compared to root aphids and spider mites etc. etc.
Just water some mosquito dunks, just water less, they be gone before you can say "bacillus turingensis israelensis" etc. etc.

Buuuuuulshit if you ask me.
They completely ruined my second round of growing and mate it impossible to continue beyond that. I couldn't germ seeds or root clones in my grow area anymore. The gnats would consume their roots before they had a chance to root/get out of the soil. They would start to rot and be covered in fungi and just die off. The surviving plants were all mangled and yielded horribly if at all, tiny plants etc. etc.

These things were the real deal and I only wish I had gotten the right advice in between all those standardized answers.
But I guess they are standardized answers because they helped a whole bunch of people.

With me, they didn't, they even sometimes made things worse (going with both nematodes and then watering with BTI, regularly, for weeks, further hurt the soil massively. I was basically destroying the soil food web and microbial balance in the soil through the un-PHed water and CannaBio products as well as having no worms/cover crops and when I started to see the effects from that, I responded by further destroying the soil food web/microbial balance by nuking it with predatory nematodes and then BTI until there was nothing "good" left basically.

But nobody saw that or realized that. Not here, not on IC or anywhere else. I had to find that out myself.
Someone actually did mention the relevant info and at least partially identified what actually caused all this for me. But his opinion was mentioned in passing, nobody agreed and they all went back to "you need to water less/from the bottom, keep the top dry, use some mosquito dunks".

The same way, I had to find out that my soil is hella N deficient due to two factors I hadn't or had only partially considered:
1) buckwheat hulls leech N from the soil (I just found that out like a week or two ago. I think it was from PlantmanBee or another good guy here on the forum)
2) The bloodmeal pellets really massively reduce the availability of N at the time the plants need it and I need to either use way more of them or get me some bloodmeal powder or compensate with worm castings.

Ok, rant over. Back to your grow Bro and best of luck.

DO
NOT
UNDERESTIMATE
THEM
!!!

Broseidon out
 
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Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Thanks, MNS friends, all of you, for your input and suggestions and for helping to keep this on track.

@cyoheights and @musashi - Your argument is sort of like this scene from Animal House. :D I can see and agree with both of your points of view. It turns out I have a background in environmental chemistry and even some knowledge of toxicology and human health risk characterization, so on one hand I know both how harmful pesticides can be and on the other hand I understand how extremely conservative (low) the permissible exposure concentrations are, and how much more benign over-the-counter pesticides are now than in my youth (anyone remember Shell No-Pest Strips? lol). Personally, I would prefer to exhaust other IPM strategies before I'd use Raid, but that's just my personal choice. I believe I will try a fungal brew such as cyoheights has suggested.

@PlantManBee - I tried your stem-pinching technique on AB10, the manifolded seed plant, and it does appear to be working. That's a great tip -thanks!

@cyoheights - I didn't consider VPD and wish I did before I diluted my main res from 600 ppm down to 530 ppm, lol. You're right, humidity in the tent has been low due to onset of cold winter weather.

@Broseidon - I appreciate your disdain for fungus gnats. I'm sure they were the cause of my problems in the bubble cloner, because I was able to take a video of one feeding on an unrooted cut! My plants look pretty good so I don't think I have a severe root rot problem except possibly in two two plants that consistently drain pH 4.5 when they are top fed pH 6.0, even after flushing gallons through them. Another more likely source of food for fungus gnats may be decomposing little pieces of root matter in the coco that I reuse. Two applications of Mosquito Bits to the surface hasn't been anywhere near as effective as I'd hoped. Maybe I need to soak them then top feed that water? Or maybey they just don't work well in top-feed coco hempy buckets? I will eventually diagnose and solve the fungus gnat problem.

So here's a quick update; I'll do a full update on the girls in the flower tent later this weekend.

AB2, my NL-leaning, leathery metallic smelling mutant runt, started showing some tiny nanners a couple days ago at around 8 weeks. I suspect the cause is cold temps - I let the lights-off temps get into the low 60s. Her beautiful hazy sister, AB5, also at 8 weeks, has not thrown any nanners, yet, that I could find. I plucked the nanners and began to flush AB2. She looks to need about another week with trichs at about 50% clear, 45% cloudy, 5% amber.

And speaking of hermaphroditism, wow, my most vigorous bad-ass male, AB9, went full-blown intersex within a couple of days of when I chopped him back in order to fit him into the 2-ft-tall flowering chamber for randy males. Here's a pic:



I'm sure having his upper ~2/3 top removed stressed the hell out of him, but AB9's brother, AB1, took the same treatment like a champ and continues to produce male flowers only. Accordingly, AB9 has been culled and AB 1 is my keeper male and will be used to make F2s. I was able to get some pollen from the top that was cut from AB1 (thanks for the tip, @topheavy420) and will pollinate a bud on AB5 tonight. The top from AB5 that I tried to clone still hasn't rooted so getting some F2 seeds from her would be almost as good as a clone. I guess I could try to reveg her, but don't think I have the space. I think she still has another 4 weeks to go so hopefully that's long enough for seeds to ripen. She is a beautiful plant despite her earlier mistreatment and I'd prefer not to lose her.
 
Thanks, MNS friends, all of you, for your input and suggestions and for helping to keep this on track.

@cyoheights and @musashi - Your argument is sort of like this scene from Animal House. :D
LMAO this made me laugh... Musashi my brother we have different growing styles...I like to take care of pest both chemically and organically as I find that I can deal with adults pretty quickly and then deal with larvae stages on an organic level as far as fungus gnats all in one day... but as long as we are all growing lets leave it at peace....

Wasn't gonna share this on here as I did not want to ignite another shit storm but...

My biggest tips for haze strains n any strains in general are...(this is all for coco but I think similar levels can be used in peat or promix)
Keep phosphorus low at around 35ppm for the first 2-3 weeks allows for shorter inter-node distance and less stretch, from there you can bump phosphorus levels to 60 or remain in the 40's doesnt matter so much as long as its in the 40's for the last half you will have smooth smoke...building phosphorus for the first half of flowering slowly till week 5 for a 9 weeker is how I do it if going above 60. I find a small bump increases flower set and does something to increase the high just a touch... You can also get a plant to finish earlier with phosphorus boost and lower nutrtient levels but I did that when I began growing sorta forgot my ratio's n stuff (I like to keep my nutrient balanced and even strait throughout the grow now) it decreased yields though I remember that, but the plant finished sooner n I wasn't increasing my K+ levels during the later half of flowering back then though I was actually reducing it. so you can experiment with that on a cut you have had for a little n know well. Boosting with potassium silicate in the last 3wks in levels on bottle in my organic grows n slowly reducing induced a smooth cigarette like burn quality but drastically shifted the pH of the medium upwards. Ok if your already using an acidic nutrient like PBP n might be ok if you have your phosphorus levels as high as you do. but haven't experimented with using it with balanced nutrients n it caused all my trichs to go cloudy pretty instantly so I know the silica is deposited in trichs... I dont use it anymore but you can experiment with it. After that I've experimented with boosting with potassium sulfate twas nice but you have to be careful of your level of sulfates as too high does the same thing phosphorus does ie causes a joint to not hold its fire n smoke to be a little heavy on throat. Best to balance nutrients from beginning.

I've also been experimenting with each micro individually... N I find that increasing Boron levels to 0.4ppm for the first half of flowering induces a heavier proliferation of calyxes and at a earlier time without effecting flowering time(ie increase yield) any higher than that induces tip burn. I keep my boron levels steady at 0.4 throughout the grow...but you can try boosting first should have the same effects...Molybdenum draws nitrogen into the buds increasing yield. Wouldn't go over .08-.04ppm. Molybdenum is a tricky one to play with as it is needed in such low levels its better to make a concentrate and dose twice a week with both of these... but know ur ppm in ur base nutrients first...Wait till Musashi reads where I get my boric acid from LMAO

For making a Boric acid concentrate I add 12.8g to 591.47mL of RO water giving me 1ppm per mL or 0.02g/mL
For making Molybdenum concentrate I add 0.58g of sodium molybdate dihydrate/591.47 giving me 0.1ppm/mL

I have mines in separate bottles as I was experimenting with these separately at first n still have a bunch of concentrate left but you can do the math on these numbers n combine them in the proper ratios in a single bottle.

Zinc induces heavier trichome set n combines with calcium in the trichomes but I have't experimented with ppm levels enough to give you a correct ppm ratio Or to tell you how it effects smoke quality. So I would advise against using it till I'm done experimenting. I do know that it will cause your trichomes to go cloudy before they are fully ripe if used in late flowering. On hand I have a 15%zinc chelate from JR peters that I make concentrates with.

Haven't gone through the rest of the micros yet...

Mg...Mg is a tricky one also as I find that too high a level or boosting it late in flower actually decreases the high. Better to tolerate deficiency in the later half of flowering if your already deficient I wouldn't go above 60-70 for most strains. I'm usually at high 40's during the later half of flowering but 60 is safe....

Keep humidity levels at 60-70% for the first 3 weeks of flowering then slowly over the course of 2-3 weeks reduce it down to 40%. My temps are usually around 75-80F but I've seen decent flowering a bit cooler. This allows for the fastest growth possible with or without CO2.

Hit with tea diluted or undiluted once a week after you have bubbled for 24hrs till your ready to flush... I find that amending the tea with eathworm castings caused a Nitrogen draw. Bat Guano caused unpredictable phosphorus levels and I'm honestly not sure about brewing with bat guano as I'm pretty certain that pathogenic bacteria that can survive and proliferate in aerobic conditions. Most flavor Ive gotten was from using it twice a week from wk 3-5 for 10wk strain along with PBP directly in the feed, then inoculating with molasses tea the day after when I was doing organic grows. But I let it go because of unpredictability. I manage 6 different rooms and need consistency. I don't like amending my tea with anything other than molasses and an inoculate but you can experiment if you so choose.

Other experiments I'll choose to leave out of here until they are complete and I'm certain of the effects....

Oh one word about the triacontonol in cannaboost is its a perfect product for first half of flowering as for increasing yield and proliferation of growth and roots, but used too late in flowering will induce a leafier butset. ok for some strains not good for most in later half.

N if you can I would line all my pots with landscape fabric 1/4 of an inch thick or more... It allows for air-pruning directly in the pot. A real proliferation of roots and increase of yield can be witnessed from this simple step surprisingly. I was a little shocked at how well that simple step worked. Guess an even better step would be to make your pots directly out of the material but that would be too much work for me right now. I'm guessing it would mean just slightly more watering though but havent ran it like that yet to tell ya.

Any pruning and training should be done prior to flowering...cutting an apical during flowering really reduces yield...Low stress training can be done in flowing like tying down or scog... the highest stress I would give plants that were too tall in flowering would be folding the apical or apicals twice so that its pointing back up but the same level of the rest n tying the stem to itself. Puts twice the amount of budsites on that same stem in the proper light zone. My friend bugged out when I did that in his garden n its turning out to be his highest yielding plant out of the group Lol He said he didnt even know you can do that. I also practice leaf pruning but too much on that to write here right now. Really allows you to stuff them in there and increase yield per plant if done right. Done wrong can also decrease yield n really stress them out.

I hope I've helped even if just minimally. I have to check out for a little as I have a good bit of work coming up, but I'd really like to see this finished and I am interested in the phenos you do find...best High was the (indica pheno) was the metallic june-plum pheno n the best sativa pheno was the maple incense pheno out of my pack. Best tasting I think was either the greenapple or the ginger candy phenos. I'm interested to see what you find in both this pack and your f2's as I'm certain with some further exploration they are better phenos in this line than whats been stated on the site thus far.


Best tip would be know your plants, read your plants, balance your nutrients, and keep improving...Good luck with your grow my brother...

PS... really like the LED's was planning on getting same ones later down the line. Cutter right?
 
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Think DJ short spoke about reverse hermaphrodites and breeding with them... Pretty sure it was him but not sure. He said that using a male that reverts to female was an easy way of producing naturally feminized seed and that the ratio of females in the seed pop actually increased. I personally have not done this experiment so cannot give you a certainty, but pretty sure I read that info from a breeder I looked up to n trusted a few years ago.
 

PlantManBee

Well-known member
I haven't read everything but I did notice a whole lot of flushing. You can flush too much IME/O. I can't define exactly how much that is, but I have damaged plants that way trying to help them.

In my case, it was me panicking when seeing them in distress, and in turn stressing them out further.

Best of luck. :)
 
I haven't read everything but I did notice a whole lot of flushing. You can flush too much IME/O. I can't define exactly how much that is, but I have damaged plants that way trying to help them.

In my case, it was me panicking when seeing them in distress, and in turn stressing them out further.

Best of luck. :)

NOt trying to be an asshole or offend at all Plant B so I hope your not offended but he's flushing with a nutrient solution. If planting in too big a pot too early you can overwater. but flushing with nutrient solution is not a problem for coco...Once your roots are set n throughout the medium you can't over water it unless you leave it soaking with a bottom tray. N even then you can leave around 1/4-1/2 inch nutrient solution in the tray after you have watered n they'll drink that for a whole trip...I've done that for many trips 5-7 days at a time. Think most of his problems lay in nutrient balance n pH at the moment. Anyway I won't be on here for a bit so won't see what you say but... Great growing by the way ya have some nice plants
 
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PlantManBee

Well-known member
Not offended at all. multiple flushes in a short period just isn't ideal from a plant health perspective IME. It depends on many factors. If you don't agree, that's fine and dandy. My plants all look healthy, are sought after by some, and make me happy. :)

LOL, cyo, you seem to like to ruffle feathers. I've been known to rock a few boats in my time. Honestly, questioning what one thinks is how one advances. Otherwise, it's all dogma all the time.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Greetings, MNS friends, and welcome back for another update. I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. It's my favorite holiday and I hope that those of you in other parts of the world get an opportunity to experience this wonderful (North) American holiday. I have the day off and some time to post this update.

@coyoheights - thanks so much for the information. I need some time to digest it and follow up but I will. Great stuff and I really appreciate your input. I'm using Citizen COBs and heat sinks I bought from KingBrite in China. Hope you aren't away for too long.

Here's the executive summary and an updated graph of the stretch, which is nearly over.





All is well in the tent. No more nanners spotted yet. Daily lows are back in the mid 60s. Plants look healthy. I'm feeding them lightly, about 500-600 ppm. AB2 and AB5 are about 60 days into flower, and AB2 should be ready next week. AB2 is getting flushed and AB5 is getting diluted late flower nutes. All trichs are clear on AB5 although about half her pistils are a light brick red color. I pollinated AB5 x AB1 at F57, hopefully not too late to make viable seed but I'll have an incentive to let this plant go to 12 weeks+ to let the seeds ripen. All trichomes are clear on AB5 and on AB2 they're 50/40/10. The rest of the plants at F21 are developing bud sites but not much odor or resin yet.
I think they'll all go around 12 weeks.

Here's the last male standing, AB1, all by himself in the flowering chamber for randy males. He's really going to start producing a lot of pollen and I therefore leave him alone as much as I can. I need to set up some creased parchment paper or something to catch the pollen.



Here's AB2, mutant runt smelling of leather, wood and metal, getting close to harvest. Nanners have been plucked.



AB2 flower. Dense buds. Would be more resinous if I hadn't done so many bud rubs to check the smells! Interior calyxes heavily coated with trichs.



Here's AB3 at F11, the last plant to go into 12/12.



Here's AB5 at F57. She's starting to fill out nicely, and it's going to be exciting to watch her finish in the next few weeks. I'd like to see if the floral smells develop into more of a mango smell as she finishes.



AB5 flower at F57. Couldn't resist going with a better resolution image on this one. Lots of tiny trichs! BOTM entry? ;)



AB6. She stopped stretching at 34" and is one of the smaller plants.



AB7, 50" tall and still stretching after 3 weeks before I supercropped to keep her top about 10" from the COBs. Leather and incense smells on the stem bub. She looks to be the big yielder.



AB7 after supercropping to 48". After the photo I trimmed of some of the upper fan leaves to open up the buds to good light.



AB8, quite vigorous, easy to root. Interesting odors of incense, floral, and funk on the stem rub.



AB10, seed plant topped 3X and manifolded for 8 colas. You can see the dip in the height chart after I tied her down. Really bushy plant, should also be a good yielder. I'm surprised it didn't stretch more than 2X.



Finally, the whole flower tent filled with beautiful Angel's Breathe plants!
 
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musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
@cyo no worries braddah. I’m too old to spend time taking things personally. I respect your skills and efforts to be helpful. We are all in this boat together brah and I appreciate you reaching out.

Shaka brah
M
 

wwwwww

Member
Marcus it has been four days since you culled male number nine. If you can, I strongly recommend you go back to the plant and try and take a clone. Male hermaphrodites are not as bad as females, and some breeders say that they help a line that has female to male herm traits. since you are just pollen chucking, it would be a good idea if you can get that male back, but control where the pollen goes and separate out the seeds just in case. Anyway, if you can, I DEFINITELY suggest getting some pollen off your number nine male.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Hello MNS friends. I was out of town for a week with the plants under the care of No. 1 son, and these Angel's Breathe plants are putting on a good show. Most of the plants are now 5 weeks into flower. I harvested the NL-leaning runt AB2 at 65 days as it was throwing nanners again. Preliminary smoke report is very good potency with great old-school taste but a little too relaxing on the initial effect. AB5 is gorgeous now at F72 and still has a couple weeks to go before she and her seeds are fully ripe. All of the plants are done stretching and frosting up beautifully. I have clone/mothers of all the girls except AB5 and AB10, so I may try to reveg them because they are both very nice looking and smelling plants.








Here's my male, AB1, making profuse amounts of pollen in the chamber for randy males. I'm going to have to cull this plant soon because the pollen is getting out of control. He went almost a week without water while I was away and did fine.



Next up is AB3, the last to go into the flower tent and currently at 26 days. I think she's ahead of her siblings for frost production at this stage, and the flowers smell leathery.



AB3 flower at F26



Next is the former runt and current beauty queen, AB5, now at F72. She smells of mangos and sweet tropical flowers, and is coated in tiny trichs. Almost all the pistils are brick red, except the tops of the main colas.



OK, I couldn't resist an even higher resolution shot of one of the colas on AB5.
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Here's AB6 at F35. This plant has difficult-to-describe smells of dark spice, incense with citrus and floral in the background. Really nice.



AB6 flower.



Here's AB7. She smells of tropical flowers like AB5.



AB7 flower.



AB8 has really greasy resin and has a citrus and floral smell going.



AB8 has a nice main cola.



Last up is AB10. This plant looks to be a long-flowering type as the pistils are still all white at F35. I'm guessing 12-14 weeks. Part of that is probably because it's a seed plant. Great haze smells of leather and lime with a floral background.


Finally here's a pic of an AB10 flower at F35.
 

blowingupjake

Mothership Connection
AB5 close up shot is awesome!
Love how the topping and training is paying off for you on AB10.

They all look great Mark. Kudos to you and the young man who's helping you out.

Thanks for the update!


Stay hazed
Jake
 
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