Marco's Apology

[british_hempire]

Lmao, isn't that what the rastas would do come harvest time. Either way, it would be funny to see the Mrs facial expression at a body covered in resin goo .. My old lady would probably break out the tongs and a cutting torch .

sp

They apparently used to make young girls run through the fields in India then scrape em for the charas, maybe an old stoner's tale though.

 

[La Buena Hierba]

1978 when he emigrated from the US. No idea on this one, Positronics had a female Haze cutting in their library, Frans who worked there described it as a pure sativa that took 16 weeks and yielded very little but was too potent for a lot of people. Someone should ask Wernard about this sometime, I'm sure he would recall if Old Ed brought Haze or if Sam did.
.

great info BH

but you ask the same in The origins of Haze thread and i had reply

Originally Posted by british_hempire
Tom Hill's Haze which descends from Positronics Haze is closer to OT1's Haze than Sams I think. Sam has stated at icmag that Positonics obtained their Haze from him, but others have suggested that Old Ed was the source of Positronic's Haze (and if anyone can find an old Posi or Lowlands Seed Co catalogue from 85 or earlier, and it has Haze in it, then that would mean it did come from Old Ed, not Sam.

.

I just ask Wernard bruining from postonics and he sey Old Ed loves the Haze but he whas working more for dutch outdoor.
he thinks Dr Watson (i think Sam) bring Haze to them.
but he whas not sure he dint like Haze that must too strong.
that time he whas working more on cintrel so not intresded in Haze Old Ed worked it i think?

Peace

LBH

Advert in HT, 1981, 5 versions of Haze, 6 if you include Burning Bush which Sam says was a Thai influenced Haze, 8 Haze hybrids, 2 Burning Bush hybrids, that's a lot of Haze seeds.

[.

Mebay they arrested the seedmaker/grower and give them too a DEA agent / informant too infiltrate the Dutch canna world this DEA agent / informant cant grow/breed so that why we dont hear notting new afther those strains years later?

oke sorry meabey i bit grazy too think this?

 

[Nevil]

It would have come from Sam, he lived in Wernards house for a while. Wernard had stuff from Sam before me.
N.

 

[british_hempire]

Hopefully you'll be able to see for yourself what Tom Hill's version of Haze is like in a few months Nev.

 

[Nevil]

I'd like to see the good side of Tom.
N.

 

[british_hempire]

The genes should tell you something.

 

[biteme]

that is some food for thought cause at one point most folks thought tom hill was a good guy. he sought out high end genetics and had a big heart for the med community. i liked his photos of monster females. tom stepped into the shit over this haze biz. he has stated too many times that it is the best ever. and of course the best is from samskunk so tom is committed in that direction at a time when sam has incurred some image problems that could become problems for tom? but i do think tom is a pretty sharp guy and if he made errors in judgment, in time he will own up to them but for now others will get the benefit of the doubt. peace-biteme

 

[british_hempire]

Tom's behaviour has deteriorated in recent times. I was shocked at the way he went on at icmag after Marco made his apology, it was sickening to see how fanboy he came across.

 

[Ronin]

While you are testing genes, test Shanti's and Kanga's MM to see how they compare to Haze genetically.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Maybe im the only one here thats grown tom hills haze offering ??

Its quite nice herbs , and as i mentioned on another thread on the same subject it is definately not an early flowering sativa ..
where i grew it in the tropics it behaved like a pure sativa , and was very reminiscent of our local mango sativas .

I crossed it with c99 and that was a 12 week finisher , though still very sativa in stature , smell and taste and high .

I dont know if its a pure haze , but to me it certainly seemed to be a pure sativa .

 

[british_hempire]

I've not grown Tom's version, have done the Seedsman Original Haze, never found a good one sadly.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Given the one i grew bh , it seems they would likely be trouble for an indoor grow , hard to handle , unruley and never wanting to finish properly .

Ive always thought trying to select from them indoors one would likely miss the potential keepers.

 

[british_hempire]

Yeah, when I met Sam himself one time in Gypsy's old shop he actually said to me that Haze under lights wasn't going to work to any worthwhile extent and the closest to Haze under lights would be a three quarters hybrid like Nevil's.

The Seedsman Original Haze were and still are 12.99 a pack so I was willing to risk wasting my time with uncontrollable sativas at that price. These Tom Hill Haze beans I have been holding onto for a couple of years waiting for the resources to do them some kind of justice. Still not happened and the seeds are only getting older so I've put them on a plane to sunnier climes where they will hopefully grow into nice plants and give us an insight into them when grown in a suitable setting under the giant halide in the sky. If you look at some recent posts in the Revival Of The Ultimate Sativa thread at icmag you'll see a bunch of pics of Tom Hill Hazes being grown by the Spanish buys and they have one pheno that at 56 days from cutting is a nice chunky bud already, I wasn't able to even sex my Seedsman Haze at 56 days so that makes me wonder if it is 100% sativa or whether it might have a little indica in it way back before Tom got it, I guess only Tom really knows but we might get some more insight if those beans I sent on holiday arrive and thrive.

 

[Bean Cracker]

Maybe im the only one here thats grown tom hills haze offering ??

I've grown 2 packs of Tom's Haze indoors and relayed my experience in a couple of threads here. I've caught some flak from a few of Tom's fans for my comments, but it was my experience. Unfortunately, I am not the only person that views Tom's offering as unfavorable. On the other hand, those who did find something worthwhile really enjoy it and rave about it.

Given the one i grew bh , it seems they would likely be trouble for an indoor grow , hard to handle , unruley and never wanting to finish properly .

Ive always thought trying to select from them indoors one would likely miss the potential keepers.

I didn't find Tom's Haze to be more unruly indoors than any other Haze offering or Haze hybrid.

You may be onto something regarding indoor selection not being adequate for this particular line. My experience leads me to believe that the MNS Haze hybrids are far more to my liking despite not being a pure Haze line.

This leads me to ask: What makes a line superior, the possibility to find something spectacular within a large number of seeds or consistent quality from limited numbers?

Also, do any of you guys buy Hazy Lady's theory of the true value of pure Haze rests within the males and not the buds from the females? Maybe she was onto something as well? After all, even SamS revealed that Haze shines in hybrids more than the pure line itself.

With the MNS hybrids I went through I never found a pack of beans that I would call bunk. However, I cannot say the samething with the 2 packs of Tom's Haze that I ran. From my perspective as a hobby bean cracker, I'd rather go with consistant quality from a pack of beans everytime rather than having to run multiple packs hoping that I am lucky enough to find something somewhat worthwhile that justifies a 16-20 week flowering cycle indoors.

 

[biteme]

do i recall a post where tom stated only 5% were keepers? that is only one out of 20 so not hitting on a keeper from two packs would not be unusual. peace-biteme

 

[Bean Cracker]

do i recall a post where tom stated only 5% were keepers? that is only one out of 20 so not hitting on a keeper from two packs would not be unusual. peace-biteme

You are correct, that's why I asked the questions that I did, so I'll repeat them:

What makes a line superior, the possibility to find something spectacular within a large number of seeds or consistent quality from limited numbers?

Also, do any of you guys buy Hazy Lady's theory of the true value of pure Haze rests within the males and not the buds from the females? Maybe she was onto something as well? After all, even SamS revealed that Haze shines in hybrids more than the pure line itself.

 

[Nevil]

Also, do any of you guys buy Hazy Lady's theory of the true value of pure Haze rests within the males and not the buds from the females?

No. As I said before the best breeding plant was the first female Haze I grew. That the next best 2 were males was just random. Maybe the male lines were so divergent to the female lines they were put to, that they increased hybrid vigour or provided a sativa dominant high effect because of the male line. Just ideas to play with.
N.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

What makes a line superior, the possibility to find something spectacular within a large number of seeds or consistent quality from limited numbers?

I would think it would depend on what you define as a superior line. The end should always justify the means.

Also, do any of you guys buy Hazy Lady's theory of the true value of pure Haze rests within the males and not the buds from the females? Maybe she was onto something as well? After all, even SamS revealed that Haze shines in hybrids more than the pure line itself.

I'll have to re-read that thread, but I don't remember Hazy Lady saying the females didn't matter. There's a thread on here where shanti talks about how to select males. Don't think shanti would waste time on an article explaining something if it weren't important.

HB.

 

[bigherb]

No. As I said before the best breeding plant was the first female Haze I grew. That the next best 2 were males was just random. Maybe the male lines were so divergent to the female lines they were put to, that they increased hybrid vigour or provided a sativa dominant high effect because of the male line. Just ideas to play with.
N.

i appreciate all the info

its all very interesting and breeding is somthin thats far from home for me ,but its topics like this that i find important to absorb when i do take a crack at it

im confused by your above post becaz in your post quoted below i thought your saying the opposite

Plants with superior genotypes come in both sexes. An argument could be made that certain traits expressed in female flowers are sex linked or even pedominantly carried on the sex chromosome. The male only has one X. It could be that males are more homozygous when it comes to passing on traits expressed in its daughters. The stamp they put on them is unmistakeable. Both Haze males A and C were crossed with NL5. Let the boys in Holland who have cuts from both tell how different they are. Another male plant that stamped all over anything I crossed with it was Ort15. It might pay to inbreed to that male. It was an indica powerhouse. You can because I did 1:1 matings

1luvbigherb

 

[Nevil]

Both parents contribute an X to the daughter.

It could be that males are more homozygous when it comes to passing on traits expressed in its daughters.

That doesn't make them better or more important, at best more predictable and I'm only speculating anyway.

I can tell you this, I've made Skunk crosses both ways and found little difference.
N.