I've fallen, and I can't get up! Pass the Medicine Man...😷

[musashi]

Photos would be most helpful. Flying blind here.

mu

 

[Diesel840]

@Proud Kraut the two SSH I let dry out and die... r.i.p. had almost nonexistent rootmass after over a month of growth.

The soil isnt compacted. I can easily fiddle around in it. If they don't bounce back I'll probably repot them with a generous amount of micho... directly on the roots and watered with a weak compost tea.

I'd rather not repot unless absolutely neccessary. I'm not sure how well some of them would handle repotting. I'm using Happy Frog soil.

Diesel840

 

[Diesel840]

Photos would be most helpful. Flying blind here.

I'll post some photos tonight after I water them.

I don't plan on changing any variables over the next watering cycle or two. Instead, I'd like to see if the changes I implemented help at all. If I change something every day or two, I'll never get a handle on what is really going on.

Having said that, getting everyones feedback in the interum, so as to be prepared with a battle plan. Would probably be a wise decision

Thank you for everyones help.

Diesel840

 

[Proud Kraut]

Good luck

 

[longball]

@Diesel840 said: "Sorry for no recent updates. If they don't start to grow in the next week, I'll post photos of them"

Forget about next week. Post up some pictures now. Another week will be more than 3 weeks since we've seen a photo. We can't help unless we can see something. Give us some good pictures from above, below, the side, the container, the soil, the whole setup, the more we can see and know, the quicker we can help you! We want to help you, please help us.

@musashi said: "Photos would be most helpful. Flying blind here."



Longball

 

[musashi]

If you are using Happy Frog, those seedlings do not need any additional input for at least 4 weeks. Water at 6 pH until 3 or 4 nodes. Then consider food, etc. Larger containers don't go out of whack as quickly and you can always use a kelp foliar for nutrition and as a PGR. But as @longball sez give us something to work with braddah.
mu

 

[Diesel840]

Forget about next week. Post up some pictures now. Another week will be more than 3 weeks since we've seen a photo. We can't help unless we can see something. Give us some good pictures from above, below, the side, the container, the soil, the whole setup, the more we can see and know, the quicker we can help you! We want to help you, please help us.

Yeah, you are absolutely right, as is @musashi I took pictures yesterday when I transplanted the Medicine Man last night into fresh Happy Frog soil ammended with worm castings (3 parts happy frog with one part worm castings).

I'll put up photos tonight after the gym and after I transplant my Super Silver Haze. The MM which looked worse for the wear above soil, looked the least impressive below soil. Example, less freah, healthy, fuzzy white roots and more old brown dead looking roots, also smaller root mass.

It did look like many of the MM had fresh, new root growth beginning. So, that is a good sighn. Perhaps with the new environment and the fresh soil, they will be happy and take off.

Wait until you see how small they still are. I have not done my first Mr. Nice grow any justice thus far.

Diesel840

Edit: I'll take and post photos of the set, aka pots, fan, tent, exhuast, and light tonight. Also, after the photos are up I'll list what my twmps, humidity, and VPD have been and currently are. I'll also use my light meter and post what the light intensity is.

 

[Diesel840]

Yesterday when I transplanted the Medicine Man, I shook off as much of the old soil as I could. I sprinkled Mycorrhizae on the roots then put them into a slightly larger container with fresh soil. The soil is 3 parts Fox Farms Happy Frog mixed with 1 part of worm castings. I watered the plants in with tap water with 1/4tsp per gallon of Kelp It Real, 1tbs gnatrol, 1tsp of Roots Organic Microbe Tea, and about a tsp per gallon of a different Mycorrhizae brand than what was sprinkled on the roots. The watering solution was ph'd to 6.8.

The plants weren't anywhere near being rootbound, even after all this time, but they were a bit better than I had expected. I didn't notice any of the fungus colony on the Medicine man that I noticed on the Black Widow and Super Silver Haze. I could see some fresh root growth on the plants.

24 hour average temp 27.8 c/81.9 f, High of 29.3 c/ 84.7 f, low of 24.9 c/76.8 f.
24 hour average humidity 66.5%, High of 69.5%, low of 55.8%
24 hour average VPD 1.24kPa, high of 1.52kPa, low 1.02 kPa.

week average temp 23.8 c/74.8 f, high of 23.8 c/84.7 f, low of 20.3 c/68.5 f.
week average humidity 64.8%, high of 69.7%, low of 51.9%.
week average VPD 1.03kPa, high of 1.52kPa, low of 0.86kPa.

month average temp 23.6 c/74.5 f, high of 29.3 c/84.7, low of 19.1 c/66.4 f.
month average humidity 64.1%, high of 73.9%, low of 51.9%.
month average VPD 1.04kPa, high of 1.53kPa, low of 0.77kPa.

@Diesel840 said: "Sorry for no recent updates. If they don't start to grow in the next week, I'll post photos of them"

Forget about next week. Post up some pictures now. Another week will be more than 3 weeks since we've seen a photo. We can't help unless we can see something. Give us some good pictures from above, below, the side, the container, the soil, the whole setup, the more we can see and know, the quicker we can help you! We want to help you, please help us.

Here is a picture of the tent, as promised.

As you can see. They are just... tiny. Far too small for plants that are nearly two months old. Now that they are finally having some new root growth and are in a new tent with fresh soil, they'll hopefully take off and live up to their potential.


Stay healthy friends.
Diesel840

 

[Mr. Brown]

Is your LED always that far away from the plants or only for the photo?

MB

 

[Diesel840]

@Mr. Brown That far. The other led I was using was closer. The light meter I used the other day said 1250x10 for the strength.

Seemed kinda high for how small some of the plants are.
I had it a few inches close4 when I moved them into that tent a few days ago. A few of the medicine mens leaves got bad fast, so I moved it further andnwas going to start slowely lowering it in a day or two.

 

[Proud Kraut]

Would try lowering the light (and take readings with the free photone app available for Apple and Android to dial the height in with the manufacturers advice if available - if not try to hit like 900+- ppfd for those small ones) as step one.

Your mix just doenst pack a punch they need at least gypsum added to the mix (or another natural CalMag source )
Looks like major N def caused by CalMag deficiency what is a commong thing in standard mixes under LED. Probably adding some trace minerals in the form of rock dust is also advised.
I would also keep some N source like Hornmeal around.

For example (some of my) plants with similar look at later stage under LED in exhausted soil -
took the time to cut those pics under 1mb for you so please take the time to consider my advice.

The most hungry plant showed deficiencies similar looking to yours. Also under bright fullspec LED.
Reamended seedrun soil.
Lacking. Many times its just CalMag - No CalMag no metabolism. Easy as that. Doesnt matter how nice the mix reads on paper.

Plant with major issues before adding Gypsum (topdress and water in)



In comparison vs the light feeders (left upper corner is the plant we talk about)



The SAME plant one week later (again upper left corner) - all i did was add 3 tablespoons of powdered GYPSUM as a topdress and watered in. I also gave it preventtive to the other plants and watered with organic nutes along plus did some defo type lst work. It doesnt seem to be the same plant yet it is.



Would bet a straw it will work in your case also. Its the LED sickness. If you drive a racecar (high power LED) you'll have shorter maintenance intervals...CalMag is the oil in your motor...

 

[Diesel840]

@Proud Kraut using my digital lux meterk(brand BTMeter), I am.getting a reading of:960x10 at the very center of the tent and plant level. For the edges of the tent, I get a reading of anywhere from 555x10-881x10.

When I close my tent, the readings I was getting in the 555x10 should go higher, closer to the other edge readings like 881x10. I assume that the low readings were becuase that area was by the open tent door. When I zip it shut and that area has the reflective mylar, it should have higer readings like the other edges lf the tent.

I raised LED 2 or 3 days ago by 4"-6", becuase the readings in the center of the tent at plant level were reading closer to 1500x10.

Looks like major N def caused by CalMag deficiency what is a commong thing in standard mixes under LED. Probably adding some trace minerals in the form of rock dust is also advised.
I would also keep some N source like Hornmeal around.

Funny you should mention that. I have been wondering if they are getting enough calcium. I have susspected calcium deficiencies in past grows. In fact, the Black Widows, which I transplanted a day earlier, already had greener hralthier looking leaves on two of the plants. Besides having fresh soil, the Microbe tea has 4%calcium. I believe they even use rock dust. At least I remeber reading that last night when I thought to myself "oh good, there is calcium in this"

Would bet a straw it will work in your case also.

We NEED to make this a saying in the canna community. I bet it would spread to everyday nomenclature for everyone. Haha. I love that. I'm stealing your phrase

Thank you for the advice ans taking your time to properly resize the photo.

Diesel840

 

[Diesel840]

@Mr. Brown and @Proud Kraut shpuld I lower the light an inch or two? The center is reading at about what @Proud Kraut said.

Edit: I could always lower it a bit after work, so it gets less light half the day and a bit more the other half? Help it acclimate possibly?

Edit part II: M. Brown the tent is a Gorilla Shorty. That picture makes the light look a higher than in person. The light is 3' 6" from the plants.

 

[Proud Kraut]

Well i think whatever the tea may contain actually 4% seem to be a small percentage of a small percentage since you only give the plants a little bit tea at one time.

Ill repeat my suggestion, buy a bag of gypsum. I think i paid 20 bucks for 25kg. Goes a long way even with led. And obviously youll need it in the future also.

Listen to your inner voice...if it dont work you can still blame the good ol' Kraut

 

[Proud Kraut]

And i have no clue what the LUX meter readings are worth i am not even familiar with that type of reading key xxxx times xx - still suggest downloading the app. Its free or almost free - uses your camera lense for the readings and will give you an actual clue about the photons hitting versus the abstract brightnes of a light source (LUX meter) conversions wont do the trick. Its a simple fix but you have to stick to the plan to make it work...

 

[musashi]

Step by step with the inputs. Simple soil and water to start with. And sometimes it is that one "bag" of soil that is used that may be bad.
@Proud Kraut makes a good case for CalMag as plants seem to want to grow quicker under LED. So they need nutrient. They look like they could use more N to increase biomass and the stretch appears their need for light. If you change feed, wait a week to see any change. Get them closer like 24". If the LED has a dimmer switch, cut light by 50% then increase and observe response. I'm finding the sweet spot with these lights is 50-75% power. Don't rely on meters, look to your plants for answers. Take your plants off the floor if you can. If not a small table for elevation then at least those foam pads that @Swifty uses would be perfect. Did you see my post on microbes? There is only one that currently has known affinity to cannabis. Plants have been growing for millions of years without our help. If I have learned anything from this soul-filling hobby is don't overlove them.

mu

 

[Swifty]

I follow @Proud Kraut here, add some calmag if you can.
I would not change the position of the light until you see new growth and roots.

A lux meter measures only the light that is visible to the eye, even apps to convert from lux to ppfd are using calculations and could be way off.

A good thread to read up on the subject:

Shane Torpey, Bruce Bugbee, PhD. - Light Basics+PAR-DLI-PPFD

ALL credit goes to Shane Torpey and Dr. Bruce Bugbee. Grow lighting basics... What is photosynthetically active radiation? What is PAR? Plants use the range of the light spectrum known as photosynthetically active radiation. Photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) is light in the wavelength...

mrnice.nl

 

[Swifty]

Step by step with the inputs. Simple soil and water to start with. And sometimes it is that one "bag" of soil that is used that may be bad.
@Proud Kraut makes a good case for CalMag as plants seem to want to grow quicker under LED. So they need nutrient. They look like they could use more N to increase biomass and the stretch appears their need for light. If you change feed, wait a week to see any change. Get them closer like 24". If the LED has a dimmer switch, cut light by 50% then increase and observe response. I'm finding the sweet spot with these lights is 50-75% power. Don't rely on meters, look to your plants for answers. Take your plants off the floor if you can. If not a small table for elevation then at least those foam pads that @Swifty uses would be perfect. Did you see my post on microbes? There is only one that currently has known affinity to cannabis. Plants have been growing for millions of years without our help. If I have learned anything from this soul-filling hobby is don't overlove them.

mu

Great advice, keep it simple and start with the basics.

 

[unnamedmike]

high Diesel840 ! I think the plants just need more food. I would add calmag and increase the amount of growth fertilizer. I was surprised by how much food the medicine man can eat, mine are 5 days away from going to 12/12, eating 3.8ec - TDS 1900ppm (in cococoir)

 

[Salva]

high Diesel840 ! I think the plants just need more food. I would add calmag and increase the amount of growth fertilizer. I was surprised by how much food the medicine man can eat, mine are 5 days away from going to 12/12, eating 3.8ec - TDS 1900ppm (in cococoir)

3'8 EC? How crazy, right? I have not gone beyond 1.0 in growth. And they have 2 days left to go to 12 hours and 4 weeks.