Is the A5 Haze cutting the mother of Nev's and Mango Haze?

[Trillion]

So..... the famous A5 cutting that gets passed around the netherlands, is it the same NL5/HazeA that was selected by Shanti and Neville to mother Nev's and Mango Haze?

The reason I ask is that by far the best things I have ever tried in dutch coffeeshops are mexican haze from dampkring and NL5/Haze from Katsu. The owner of Katsu told me they are both mothered by the A5 cut, but generally the pure A5 is not sold in coffeshops due to lack of commercial viability.

I thought it would make sense that a plant which passes on such magic to its offspring was selected by shanti and neville. I may be way off in my guess, I hope someone can give some light on the subject.

Cheers,
Trillion

 

[genegenie]

Yo Trillion,
The A cut is supposed to be some woman, butI thought Nev had lost the A cut,so not sure if it was used in the Nev's and the Mango,but Big Herb or L33T might know.
As you said the Mexican Haze is some special smoke, haven't tried Katsu's NL5/Haze though, but I'll be there next month so I'll try it then if you think it's that good.

I managed to source some female pollen from the Mexican Haze pheno that they sell in De Dampkring and crossed it to my Pink Bubblegum cut I have.

The keeper I had from the cross reminds me alot of the pics I used to see of Sensi's NL5/Haze(apart from bud colour) and the high is pure speed weed, nothing like the Mexican or Bubblegum really, gonna bring some to Holland for some people that know the A cut, for them to try and see what they think.

I've a thread in the indoor section that I'm posting pics of my Mexican Haze X Pink Bubblegum grow that I have going at the mo, if your interested.

Peace GG

 

[JessE]

Hi all
Good question Trillion, as there has been some talk along similar lines in recent times. No one has Shantis mother plants only beta and f1 seed. Shanti has mentioned it was not hard for him to find the mother of Mango Haze during the selection process, which if im not mistaken was no small under taking. But the father took a fair bit of time to work out. Mango Haze is absolutely the stuff dreams are made of. Not to be out done, her sister Super Silver Haze is a knockout too.

 

[Trillion]

Yo Trillion,
The A cut is supposed to be some woman, butI thought Nev had lost the A cut,so not sure if it was used in the Nev's and the Mango,but Big Herb or L33T might know.
As you said the Mexican Haze is some special smoke, haven't tried Katsu's NL5/Haze though, but I'll be there next month so I'll try it then if you think it's that good.

I managed to source some female pollen from the Mexican Haze pheno that they sell in De Dampkring and crossed it to my Pink Bubblegum cut I have.

The keeper I had from the cross reminds me alot of the pics I used to see of Sensi's NL5/Haze(apart from bud colour) and the high is pure speed weed, nothing like the Mexican or Bubblegum really, gonna bring some to Holland for some people that know the A cut, for them to try and see what they think.

I've a thread in the indoor section that I'm posting pics of my Mexican Haze X Pink Bubblegum grow that I have going at the mo, if your interested.

Peace GG

It looks a bit more wild and mexican and also a bit denser from the bubblegum, nice cross

Katsu have proper amnesia aswell not that popcorny unflushed shit they sell at barneys and almost everywhere else. They have black widow too.

But I'm wondering if the A5 that a lot of dutch breeders use is a different Nl5/Haze cut like Stu/dr kevorkian or if its the MNS breeding mother?

 

[Trillion]

Hi all
Good question Trillion, as there has been some talk along similar lines in recent times. No one has Shantis mother plants only beta and f1 seed. Shanti has mentioned it was not hard for him to find the mother of Mango Haze during the selection process, which if im not mistaken was no small under taking. But the father took a fair bit of time to work out. Mango Haze is absolutely the stuff dreams are made of. Not to be out done, her sister Super Silver Haze is a knockout too.

So A5 is likely a cut selected by another breeder.

I have some SSH seeds in the old yellow packs, Im starting off with some Neville's HazeXNL now though (not from MNS)

Is it known if larger numbers were used to find the NL5/Haze mums of ssh and mh or to find the Haze A and C males? It would be hard to grow a lot of pure hazes!

I think those selections have probably had more effect on cannabis breeding than any other breeders selections

 

[bigherb]

the answer the your question is NO the clone only A5 is not the mother of NH/MH the mother of mango haze was a select clone i believe shanti named 122 according to mrhaze420

the original A5 is a clone only select i believe from 86 which neville made by crossing the HAZE A male to a select NL5 ,shanti has told me the OSH clone only"S held in the south of holland hav not been used in the breeding of the current MNS strains

the owner of katsu is misinformed or just speaking rubbish as many of you say LOL

the A5 is available in som CS in the south of holland i havnt had the chance to experience any of these OSH clone only but i look forward to a future tasting which will happen on my next trip

as for my experience with katsu i smoked smothin called special haze n another un memorable haze hybrid,after all the praise i was very dissapointed ,probably partially due too the menu selections at the time but IME nothin special

im glad there is interest in these OSH clone only's as ive said before there really is a lack of info on there history ,hopfully i will change that in the near future


1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

So A5 is likely a cut selected by another breeder.

I have some SSH seeds in the old yellow packs, Im starting off with some Neville's HazeXNL now though (not from MNS)

Is it known if larger numbers were used to find the NL5/Haze mums of ssh and mh or to find the Haze A and C males? It would be hard to grow a lot of pure hazes!

I think those selections have probably had more effect on cannabis breeding than any other breeders selections

som insight

Originally Posted by Shantibaba
Hi All

well someone brought this thread to my attention and asked for me to comment...so I will.

In my experiences with the Haze plants, the actual breeding of traits into a plant are not easy.The only way you can attempt this, and it maybe out of the reach of most due to the number of plants required is this. You crack a batch of Haze from a reliable and as pure source as you can find. Keep the best 3 males that exhibit traits you are after in the physical plant. You do the same for 3 females you get from the same batch. You then proceed to pollinate each female to ABC males and crack the seed you make...identify those plants displaying traits you are looking for and pick the male that shows most true in the F1 progeny. This can only be achieved by doing larger samples of seeds...and then you will need to keep a fair few clone back ups until you are sure that certain plants do not shine your way. An example of such breeding was Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze from Mr Nice Seeds. Nev cracked over 1000 seeds and followed them through testing large F1 progeny...Mango female was easy to find for me but the male took a fair while...1.5 years. In that time I killed several hundred F1 seeds to find the male that proved to be most true in its progeny.However now with Nev Haze C, and my MH male I have two plants that combine well and carry certain Haze/sativa traits to all they mate with...but this has now taken quite some years.

So it can occur with luck and it can occur with hard work, but the amount of plants needed to fulfil this type of breeding is much more greater than Indica dominant breeding imo.

All the best Sb

 

[Trillion]

The owner of Katsu wasn't talking rubbish The Mexican Haze is mothered by the A5 cut as is the particular strain in his coffeshop they sell under the name NL5/Haze.

I think they selll A5 in Willie Wortels in Harleem

Thanks for answering my questions, has shanti ever mentioned the amount of pur hazes grown to find A and C males?

 

[bigherb]

The reason I ask is that by far the best things I have ever tried in dutch coffeeshops are mexican haze from dampkring and NL5/Haze from Katsu. The owner of Katsu told me they are both mothered by the A5 cut, but generally the pure A5 is not sold in coffeshops due to lack of commercial viability

believe wat you wish

i already told you the shanti stated the mns haze hybrids are not related to the OSH soo this leads me too believe nevilles nl5 haze is a different select then the actual A5.

the A5 is sold in few CS in s.holland

ime
ive sampled mexican haze in dampkring n a few other samples i believe on more than one trip ,nothin special

as for the mexican haze true its reported the OSH A5 mango pheno is the mother

 

[SmokeOn]

The reason I ask is that by far the best things I have ever tried in dutch coffeeshops are mexican haze from dampkring and NL5/Haze from Katsu. The owner of Katsu told me they are both mothered by the A5 cut, but generally the pure A5 is not sold in coffeshops due to lack of commercial viability

believe wat you wish

i already told you the shanti stated the mns haze hybrids are not related to the OSH soo this leads me too believe nevilles nl5 haze is a different select then the actual A5.

the A5 is sold in few CS in s.holland

ime
ive sampled mexican haze in dampkring n a few other samples i believe on more than one trip ,nothin special

bigherb, what is OSH?

Please use the quote button, or quotation marks "" in the future, it's hard to follow your posts. Not trying to be a downer, it is just really confusing.

 

[bigherb]

bigherb, what is OSH?

Please use the quote button, or quotation marks "" in the future, it's hard to follow your posts. Not trying to be a downer, it is just really confusing.

do ya reasearch oldschoolhazes

man dont start wit that,heard it all before the (quote button)

is it hard to follow my post or this last post for about the last 4 months or better ive been usin the quote button

i really could care less ,this was directed toward trillion whose post i copied and pasted instead of quoting the whole phragraph

instead of complaining reread the 9 post thread ,and do ya reasearch

 

[Trillion]

believe wat you wish

i already told you the shanti stated the mns haze hybrids are not related to the OSH soo this leads me too believe nevilles nl5 haze is a different select then the actual A5.

And I believe you!
You are misunderstanding what i wrote, the A5 is the mother of the strain sold as NL5/Haze in Katsu, just beacause its sold as Nl5/Haze doesnt mean its a MNS hybrid. Its not important but I dont want people to think he was lying!

So does anyone know who selcted the A5? Was it another seed co like sensi or just old school dutch growers?

 

[L33t]

Hi Trillion

Like bigherb wrote in one of his earlier posts , the A5 was a plant found by Neville and is a selected NL#5 X Haze'A' female cut.

Since I m not sure when exactly the A5 cut was found , I cant say for sure whether it was while Neville was running The SeedBank seed co or if he found it at a later stage.

 

[Trillion]

the original A5 is a clone only select i believe from 86 which neville made by crossing the HAZE A male to a select NL5 ,shanti has told me the OSH clone only"S held in the south of holland hav not been used in the breeding of the current MNS strains

L33t: So he did!

So it was from the same 1000+ plant Nl5/Haze grow as SSH and Mango Haze. Im guessing it was a standout clone but didnt have the same success used in breeding as the mums of ssh/mh. I was gonna buy a pack of ocean's 12 haze which is A5 X ? (maybe G13/haze) but if shanti passed up using the A5 as parental stock I guess it makes sense to stick with MNS.

Thanks for the answers bigherb/l33t

 

[bigherb]

L33t: So he did!

So it was from the same 1000+ plant Nl5/Haze grow as SSH and Mango Haze. Im guessing it was a standout clone but didnt have the same success used in breeding as the mums of ssh/mh. I was gonna buy a pack of ocean's 12 haze which is A5 X ? (maybe G13/haze) but if shanti passed up using the A5 as parental stock I guess it makes sense to stick with MNS.

Thanks for the answers bigherb/l33t

sup trillion N sup unc

anytime bro

i lov these hazy discussions ,glad their is still interest in these old legends

it wasnt from the same selection as those 100o plus plants ,actually it could hav been many more ,i believe it was while nevilles cannabis castle was goin strong ,aside from that it was different times way earlier 85-86 according to my info if the OSH clones were passed in 86-87 the work had to be done prior.

now please dont dismiss the A5 becaz shanti claims its not used in his parental stock,if you remember shanti said the A male died with neville,

quoted shanti
When I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil ,

soo according to shanti if neville got mns haze stock in the 70's that would be a good 10 plus years of experience wit the haze shanti didnt hav

my point is neville selected the female for ssh as did shanti wit mh,soo you see its different strokes for different folks ,also from my reasearch the A5 diesel pheno is the end all haze from neville/mns throughout the years,its been said these old school haze are in a league of their own


1luvbigherb

 

[mrsmokey]

wudnt mind seeing a grow of ocean 12 and mex haze cant seem 2 find many was gonna get mex haze but order mango and nl5haze from shanti instead. But i hear the mex haze is more like mango and ocean 12 like SSH.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

A5

Heya,

I started growing the OShazes in the early 90's
@ that time they have been circulating in the south of holland since the late 80's in a select group of haze lovers.
The A5 diesel pheno got very populair during the mid and late 90's in the rest of holland for it was the strongest strain that could be found @ that time, prior to the amnesia strains and other very potent killer strains you see nowa days.
The A5 was a very stoney strain but was also a rocket launching trip weed. stoned and tripping high in the same strain, the most heavy weed that was around, unbelievable for people that never smoked it before, i've seen people doing very weird shit after smoking that strain, like walking around the same building for 2 straight hours, he got so stoned after a few hits he had to walk it of. Another friend after having 2 drags(!) from a spliff went to the hospital cause he thought he was going to die...
Due to its potency it was getting very very populair, even with people that never actually smoked or grown it.
and so the A5 was being sold in more and more CS's in holland but i doubt it if it really was the A5 strain. It became more of a brand name instead of the original thing. The same thing happened to alot of populair strains like white widow etc... That why i doubt it if these CS's you mention really do have the A5 haze...
I grew the A5 haze untill 9 years ago when the mother plant died and nobody in my circle had it anymore. A pity yes... however i dindn't like to smoke the strain so much personaly cause of the strong stony high. I smoke every day and love to smoke lots of herb and for that reason i prefered to grow the more friendly high strains such as the C5 haze and the HPH haze. But of course now from time to time i miss the A5, a speacially when my back is killing me after a hard day of work. For medical users the A5 would be a super strain, in my oppinion.
The other OSH like the CG13 and the AG13 also got lost.
There seems to be a very small group of haze lovers around breda that still have these hazes but i haven't been able to get into contact with them to verify the authenticity of the strains.
anyways the strains that shanti is breeding at the moment are plants that do carry the same genes in them as these OSH but are different strains for they are made out of different seeds in a different time and crossed with other strains.
they are however connected with eachother but not as direct father or mother more as the grandparents of grandparents of shanti's breedings, witch are really high quality strains. I just finished my first neville haze grow from shanti's breedings, witch also was one of the OSH, and i must say that the new version is slightly different then the OS version but they both are super lovely strains, very special and you won't find it anywhere else then here, with MSN.
That is how i became a member here, in my quest for regaining the A5 haze i found the Mr Nice seeds hazes and to this day it makes me a very happy man.
I hope this will answer yr question properly.
All the best,
Y. Sam

 

[JessE]

Hi all,
Always being interested in how these stories develop, which in turn cause confusion among the community below is some information on these varieties which some may find of interest. If anyone else has any relevent information on these lines, please feel free to contibute. As we've previously discussed, no one has any of Shantis mother plants. With some of the more recent additions to the MNS menu, the availability of very similar lines to the ones in question are a very real possibility for any of us out there modern day 2010 which are essentially a retro renaissance of sorts to the strains that grand fathered the entire industry into what is today. The MNS Haze parental lines are all very old, dating back decades and with the recent addition of original Northern Lights lines from the mid to late '80s the essential nature of these lines is readily apparent. Instead of chasing hybrids of mystery lines, from outside sources we can all get the real deals from the original pioneers themselves (with the original lines) here at MNS.

Originally posted by Mr. Haze
the mother of the mango haze is a nl5haze that nev called the 122. i had it along with the original A5. C1 and C5 in my room 1999-2001. all were very potent, even after all those years fo being around. ssh is a nl5haze x skunk haze. originally it was the jack herer but was not stable enough and was redone in 1995 after nev left sensi. i have a pix of the chalk board from the cannabis castle that nev used to write his crossing experimnets on. it shows the what he was up to at the time.

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f13/silver-super-silver-haze-6628/index2.html




And below is a link to a thread from 2007 which seems to be one of the earlier accounts online of these varieties known as A5 and C5 for those interested.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53531

Originally posted by MacHaze
I have found the haze I was looking for at least 2 years, the A5 Haze, for me the best haze arround on the planet... I also received the C5 haze...

It will be a long run as I will feed them for 12 weeks and flush them for at least 2 weeks.

I received them as clone from an old guy who is used to grow it for 21 years. He said they came from the U.S.A. travelling in a box of cigarettes as clone at the end of the seventies.

Originally posted by Skar
Hi,

i haved smoke some haze A5 in a maastricht coffeeshop some month ago...i still have 2grs

But i've never hear about his breeding story, and i've never hear about Haze A5 seeds.

So, for me the she smell/taste a bit like "original haze" from flying dutchmens, and the high is really powerfull.

Any infos appreciate

Originally posted by MacHaze

Truth or bedtime Story?

I don't know the thruth about the story I have heard, but it is been supposed that the A5-C5-HPH-CG13 & AG13 have been brought as seeds and some as clones into a packet of Marlborro, end 70'ties. They have been grow and selected (by some pioneers inlcuding Neville). The mothers (or original mother) is 20+ old years and seemed to have been used in several breedings of respected Seedbanks.

They are well known in the South of Holland, it is sometimes sold in Breda, the Pax ( a boot coffeeshop ).

These are very strong hazes, that "old" guy told me that the Mango Haze (from Mr.Nice) is related to a pheno of the A5, the Mango Pheno, the other one, that I am growing now, is the Diesel pheno (not related to any Diesel strain from Rez or Soma).

What I know for sure, is that it is the beste Hazes arround (specialy the A5), that took me years to get my hands on.

Stronger as Kalimist or SSH, a very nice taste.... and worth to go for 14 weeks.

The 4 plants are very strong and healthy and grow much faster than any other haze that I have been growing. The old guy is doing 1,7gr per watt with his nutes, growshedule and genetics.

Curious 2 see what it will become...

Cheers,
MacHaze

Originally posted by MacHaze

I have no problem with this take-over :yoinks:

Lambsbread used to be a landrace, and I think to know that Moppel received some beans of it, but it is nowhere to be found anymore in Jamaica, I've heard.

Growing hazes outside :chin:... maybe I will try this out this summer, but in a greenhouse and with reducing the light hours manualy, because with the Dutch weather, it is tricky to do.

Those A5 & C5, they are realy very different from the other Sativa's I have grown before like the SSH, Kalimist or Original Haze... The leaves are gigantic, bigger than my hand, and they like very high Ec...

As I was told they were more tricky then a "regular" haze, I've used the blue (400w metal halide) to keep them large and short. Also it has been told to me that it is the best way to grow hydro as with earth the N can not be reduced enough to the values required... but as a non believer, I will test that out very soon.

Cheers,
MacHaze

p.s. for the people who had the pleasure to smoke Barney's Willie Nelson at the cup when it won, that was the C5

Originally posted by MacHaze
@ zeno aka freakje: I know you know the old guy as some of us do, but not all the information you gave is correct:

The A5 Diesel pheno isn't gone, it is only the CG13 that is gone forever, all the other strains are still available like the A5 Mango - C5 - HPH and I hope the AG13, as I know they have got some problems with it to root, I think.

Second of all, you can read on several (dutch)forums that the "old" guy has posted it himself from the Willie Nelson, and yes, I believe I have read also the CG13 as the substitute, but was told it was the C5 two days ago AGAIN. And I am not giving them, Barney's and the "old" man some bad reputation as we are talking about the best weed arround, and both has those in house....

His nutes that he is using since many years, is really good and it will be brought on the market ...

And no, he is not so old in age, but he is growing like more than twenty years and I didn't know who to call him, but he will be joining icmag in a shortwhile, and he is aware and reads also this thread...

@ Rosy : as the old guy told me, it is very tricky to grow those sativa, and with the time and experience, you can have an average of 1,7gr per watt and I think the record was 2,2gr per watt with the C5. But for now, I am starting with those strains and nutes, so as a first timer I would not dream to get that yield, but I will try :dueling:

Cheers,
MacHaze

Originally posted by Sam Skunkman
So these clones traveled back in the late 70's? I mention this because no one was even making clones back then. If he has been growing it for 21 years, that means from 1986? That would make it the oldest or one of the oldest clones in use for 21 years, not to mention it is 10 years older according to the grower. That would make the clone 30 years old, and the oldest clone I have heard of. I doubt it is all true.

I am not doubting the quality of the plants, but I do not believe the history.
As far as I know there were no Haze grown from clones until the 80's, and depending on the location of the "an old guy" Haze was not even grown in Europe until the mid to late 80's.

-SamS

Originally posted by MacHaze They received those from Neville, back in the late 70 or begin 80, if they were all clones, I doubt it, cause they still got some seeds from that time, so it could be they grow out those seeds and then made those clones...

Do not forget that the SSH was already available in the mid eighties, and that some of those strains are certainly parents of it, and time does fly...

All what I can say for sure, is that these are untouched, clean sativa's with the most viguorous grow I have seen uptill now. They do grow much faster and produces the biggest leaf that I have sean, the C5 the most of all...

And like I said, starting this thread, truth or bedtime story, I really don't care, this is THE haze, and I have it now, finally, after a very long search for many years.

I will be growing these, over and over again, never tasted anything better with a stronger high, and if I can grow as the "old" guy, with a yield better than a BigBud or Chronic... :woohoo: I am sold.

Cheers,
MacHaze

Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman

Neville did not get Haze until 1985 I know because I gave it to him, and he got seeds.
Moppel the clone being discussed was from the USA in the late 70's that is more then 21 years, it was grown by an old guy for 21 years.
If the seeds were from neville then the clones were not made until after the mid 1980's.
I am not trying to dish the plants, hell they are from my work.
SSH was not available until the late 1980's, 1988 specifically. And it was just called Haze X NL not SSH yet.

-SamS

Originally posted by MacHaze
I have no doubt about your version of the facts, and as most of people do, they blow up things, to make it sweeter. The seeds or clones came from Neville, that is for sure, and those growers uses those strains since that time. And as you have given those genes to Neville, you are the best person to know the dates for a fact.

Cheers,
MacHaze

Somehow from March 2007 to June 2007 where A5 was a related pheno to Mango Haze it morphed into "A5 Mango Haze" and later into rumors of being the mother of Mango Haze? The continued evolution of stories surrounding many lines is not a new phenomena by any means. It would be interesting to see more information on these lines, because the alleged origins of these lines appear to be anything but certain. Also interesting to note the number of characters involved and the dates surrounding these lines and the information presented. NL x Hz seeds have been commercially available to consumers for many years now, they are hardly scarce. But these mass produced seeds all came from select genetics held by Nevil many of which are still available today here at MNS. For those interested in obtaining their own NL x Haze, look no further than the Mr. Nice seeds menu to select and choose your very own highly select special variety.

Originally posted by Zeno
upcomming is :a5 mango haze x g13 haze
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60215


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94863

Additional recommended reading

The Origins of Haze
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=1606

Northern Lights
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=2012

The Fertilizer of Economic Growth
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=2761

 

[bigherb]

yosemite

sup brotha

hows it goin ,great too see you postin

your info is most appreciated thanks for sharing you experiences ,coming from somone who was around the ot's,its interesting and agreed as shanti has told me the OSH are not used in any of the current mns strains

thanks for all your contributions

lookin forward to pics/reports of your recent grows

jesse

sup brotha

ive mentioned this several times including that heated discussion ,im glad you now agree it be interesting too see information on these lines

as of present the quoted post as ive also stated from machaze along with yosemites contributions are the most details we have too this date ,it be great to hav som first hand from shanti possibly via neville,soo we all be certain of facts


as for the nl x hz ,id like to point out mns does not offer the nevs nlXhz,as nevilles nl5haze was made with the hazeAfemale which died with neville ,the current offering uses the haze Cmale ,which is an itriguing line im sure will loved by many

1luvbigherb

 

[catalyst]

yosemite

sup brotha

hows it goin ,great too see you postin

your info is most appreciated thanks for sharing you experiences ,coming from somone who was around the ot's,its interesting and agreed as shanti has told me the OSH are not used in any of the current mns strains

thanks for all your contributions

lookin forward to pics/reports of your recent grows

jesse

sup brotha

ive mentioned this several times including that heated discussion ,im glad you now agree it be interesting too see information on these lines

as of present the quoted post as ive also stated from machaze along with yosemites contributions are the most details we have too this date ,it be great to hav som first hand from shanti possibly via neville,soo we all be certain of facts


as for the nl x hz ,id like to point out mns does not offer the nevs nlXhz,as nevilles nl5haze was made with the hazeAfemale which died with neville ,the current offering uses the haze Cmale ,which is an itriguing line im sure will loved by many

1luvbigherb

the doors uses nl5/haze(2A) x (nl5/hazeAxsk/hazeC)....So would these mr nice haze hybrids (Rock and Roll) have similar genes (A5) to be found since these seeds were 1987 seeds from nev???