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BlackWater
Guest
Not true. Bought mine from GHS in the '90's, but of coarse from Nevil directly.
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Inbreeding Neville's Haze
- Thread starter BullDogDad
- Start date
Not true. Bought mine from GHS in the '90's, but of coarse from Nevil directly.
Really what part of Neville produced the seed then supplied GHS with NH and SSH didnt you get mate.
Neville first produced NH seed in 94 or 95 and Neville was a partner in GHS coffee shop but not the GHS seed company.
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BlackWater
Guest
Well you weren't real clear in you statement and I did edit my statement, but not before you quoted me so... clearer wording is essential here. I was lucky enough to travel there many times in the '90's so forgive the haziness. But I stand by my edited statement. I sought out SB and Nevil for a reason, that should be clear as day and night. Cool bro?
Sorry blackwater i did in fact post and i explained it very clearly.
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BlackWater
Guest
It wasn't, but after a few readings I caught your drift and edited my post to basically confirm and agree. Im not sure where the language barrier lies here, but there seems to be one.
I came here to seek out SB and Nevil, just like I did in the past. Im not here to argue. If you cannot except my edited post then we cannot agree. I suggest then we simply stay out of eachothers way as a solution, fair enough?
A
Aragorn
Guest
If I understand correctly, you want to achieve with Neville's Haze what Sannie's has achieved with Jack Herer (Sannies Jack F7). It smokes just like the original but purportedly has better yields and more uniformity/stability. (I've smoked Sannie's Jack but never grown it)
Hi Jesse, I can't speak for Kanga but the NH seeds Nevil is using for grail were not ones sent by Shanti but a batch he made himself in '97.
To improve on the original F1 to that extent through inbreeding 6 generations is truly impressive. Does anyone here have first hand experience with this line?
hey i think the confusion is both that shanti sent the seeds and that nevil made them, its just a case that nevil wanted to use his own seeds considering he had already passed on many of these for safe storage with shanti. thats how i understand it. nevils said himself he simply rather use the older ones he made himself as he still isnt sure about the effect of genetic aging on the seeds those plants produce, he already had a backup supply n simply asked shanti to send some of these back his way. i guess if nevil doesnt understand the consequences of genetic ageing he simply avoided his concerns and was well planned for the matter.
anyway i have been thinking should we can the 1:1 idea in order to create the best ibls? i mean im not talking about hybrids and totally understand nevils reasoning but despite this nevils hasnt been making countless ibls for years as he has hybrids so im just wondering does the 1:1 ruling not fit the ibl mould? just another idea i guess and im wondering what everyine else thinks.
cheers
Betterhaff
New member
Mr Fecund, I remember reading something like that also.
http://https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-13.html
I have a lot of respect for Nevil, and Shanti too. If it wasn't for Nevil's ingenuity in getting the seeds out there as well as his breeding skills, the canna world wouldn't be what it is today. And for him to leave the genetics in Shanti's hands...well that says a lot.
Bh
Puday
New member
I think somebody mentioned this but if walkabout is really landrace genetics from all over the world ... get a pack and cross your nevils haze to that.
Also been sampling a 2010 sensi NL5 Haze x 2010 MNS Nevils Haze
Almost every one of the progeny is a keeper. amazing phenos. dank dank old school stuff. You have to test the males is what it comes down to. Yu have to grow out the kids. Until you know you have a good male anything else is pointless. I'd spend more time looking for a good male through outcrossing your best Male NevilsHazes to everything and check the kids. One of the males will produce great children ... use that one.
on the topic of inbreeding the Nevils Haze ... pointless unless you have a good male. Perhaps inbreeding will allow you to discern a good male so you could try it.
Also been sampling a 2010 sensi NL5 Haze x 2010 MNS Nevils Haze
Almost every one of the progeny is a keeper. amazing phenos. dank dank old school stuff. You have to test the males is what it comes down to. Yu have to grow out the kids. Until you know you have a good male anything else is pointless. I'd spend more time looking for a good male through outcrossing your best Male NevilsHazes to everything and check the kids. One of the males will produce great children ... use that one.
on the topic of inbreeding the Nevils Haze ... pointless unless you have a good male. Perhaps inbreeding will allow you to discern a good male so you could try it.
highnessgrows
New member
NH are bomb! Love the look, darn gorgeous plant!
Confusion reigns
I always get confused by these threads where ppl talk about Haze as though it is some sort of legendary IBL strain. Haze brothers Haze changed every single season for years as the Haze brothers crossed to a different sativa every season up to at least Haze #19. So every year you got 50% polyhybrid sativa crossed with 50% pure landrace IBL.
That's just the start of it. Then many seedbanks and breeders crossed various releases of Haze with other releases (eg Haze #5 with Haze #19) while other seedbanks simply called their own pet landrace sativa line "Haze" and sold it as Haze.
To make it even more confusing we apparently have Neville and/or Shanti saying that Haze doesn't do well inbred (which I concur with) while Charlie garcia and others are boasting their Haze lines have only ever been inbred as though that is a good thing.
To me Haze has come to mean "a collection of hand picked sativas mixed together" and anybody can recreate their own version of Haze if they so wish.
Following this line of reasoning then the obvious choice of a suitable cross for NH if you want to "fix" those hazey sativa traits is... a landrace sativa such as Thai. It's far simpler than inbreeding NH because you reduce the NL to only about 10% and increase the sativa expression which is what Haze was all about once upon a time.
Certainly that has been my approach... but the late flowering and extra long flowering time ... accompanied by the way NH stops growing when the temp drops too low... well my first attempt at crossing NH with a pure old school Thai was/is a complete disaster.
I am working with NH though and will continue to do so because it is one of the most unusual strains I have ever grown.
Neville Haze plants mixed in with landrace Thai plants.
scrubdog
I always get confused by these threads where ppl talk about Haze as though it is some sort of legendary IBL strain. Haze brothers Haze changed every single season for years as the Haze brothers crossed to a different sativa every season up to at least Haze #19. So every year you got 50% polyhybrid sativa crossed with 50% pure landrace IBL.
That's just the start of it. Then many seedbanks and breeders crossed various releases of Haze with other releases (eg Haze #5 with Haze #19) while other seedbanks simply called their own pet landrace sativa line "Haze" and sold it as Haze.
To make it even more confusing we apparently have Neville and/or Shanti saying that Haze doesn't do well inbred (which I concur with) while Charlie garcia and others are boasting their Haze lines have only ever been inbred as though that is a good thing.
To me Haze has come to mean "a collection of hand picked sativas mixed together" and anybody can recreate their own version of Haze if they so wish.
Following this line of reasoning then the obvious choice of a suitable cross for NH if you want to "fix" those hazey sativa traits is... a landrace sativa such as Thai. It's far simpler than inbreeding NH because you reduce the NL to only about 10% and increase the sativa expression which is what Haze was all about once upon a time.
Certainly that has been my approach... but the late flowering and extra long flowering time ... accompanied by the way NH stops growing when the temp drops too low... well my first attempt at crossing NH with a pure old school Thai was/is a complete disaster.
I am working with NH though and will continue to do so because it is one of the most unusual strains I have ever grown.
Neville Haze plants mixed in with landrace Thai plants.
scrubdog
medicalguy
New member
haze inbreed
the problem is most othe breeder dont have the haze that nevil has many just call thiers haze when it just a sativa strain with unknown origns
I always get confused by these threads where ppl talk about Haze as though it is some sort of legendary IBL strain. Haze brothers Haze changed every single season for years as the Haze brothers crossed to a different sativa every season up to at least Haze #19. So every year you got 50% polyhybrid sativa crossed with 50% pure landrace IBL.
That's just the start of it. Then many seedbanks and breeders crossed various releases of Haze with other releases (eg Haze #5 with Haze #19) while other seedbanks simply called their own pet landrace sativa line "Haze" and sold it as Haze.
To make it even more confusing we apparently have Neville and/or Shanti saying that Haze doesn't do well inbred (which I concur with) while Charlie garcia and others are boasting their Haze lines have only ever been inbred as though that is a good thing.
To me Haze has come to mean "a collection of hand picked sativas mixed together" and anybody can recreate their own version of Haze if they so wish.
Following this line of reasoning then the obvious choice of a suitable cross for NH if you want to "fix" those hazey sativa traits is... a landrace sativa such as Thai. It's far simpler than inbreeding NH because you reduce the NL to only about 10% and increase the sativa expression which is what Haze was all about once upon a time.
Certainly that has been my approach... but the late flowering and extra long flowering time ... accompanied by the way NH stops growing when the temp drops too low... well my first attempt at crossing NH with a pure old school Thai was/is a complete disaster.
I am working with NH though and will continue to do so because it is one of the most unusual strains I have ever grown.
Neville Haze plants mixed in with landrace Thai plants.
scrubdog
the problem is most othe breeder dont have the haze that nevil has many just call thiers haze when it just a sativa strain with unknown origns
medicalguy
New member
Another thing Ive noticed is others breeds claim there haze comes fro jamacia or other places. so I dought it come from the same place nevil's does. and if you compare other breeders haze it doesnt have any simularities that nevils variety does the others just name ther's haze when in afct there not
O in front of G
New member
Clarification....
Its been said in this thread and many others...
Nev said inbreeding leads to the cat piss smell/phenos to occur in higher percentages....
Nev said he doesn't like cat piss...
Therefore Nev says inbreeding is not to be done...
Other breeders might find the cat piss appealing and thus say their inbred lines are superior....
All depends on the person....
Its not that inbreeding can't be done... Just in Nev's eyes he started to see a decline in his goal instead of the progeny surpassing the parentals...
Personally I believe Nev's emphasis on the sir line is the most important thing to take away from all of this... Find a good nev haze male and you have the power to create some of the best plants with your own personal touch... Apparently many others think this way and the establishing of seed banks primarily using MNS stock as the key parentals is abundant in todays day and age... Find male... Hit your best female... Schbang... Cannabis cup winner lol... People these days...
Nevs haze stock is a whole different story... Tune in to the soap opera channels for that drama...
Grow haze lines from MNS and then grow haze lines from these other "breeders" and make up your own mind...
Have a good one
OG
** Just wanted to add that the idea of using an MNS NEV HAZE MALE to produce a high quality breeding program can also be said to be true of other MNS lines not relating to Nev at all.... It is a well known fact that the males from the Widow family throw incredible progeny. Again i believe this is due to the dominance of the sir line and the importance placed on individual male pedigree in one to one matings. Females are nothing sort of amazing and what we are all after in the end but it is due to male traits in progeny tested individuals that really put the icing on the cake. Anyone can select a female. It takes talent and dedication to find a prized male. Luckily Shanti has taken on the blunt of this work and offers us a shortcut to breeding success. Seeing further only by standing on the shoulders of giants... And have you seen those shoulders on SB??? Atb**
Its been said in this thread and many others...
Nev said inbreeding leads to the cat piss smell/phenos to occur in higher percentages....
Nev said he doesn't like cat piss...
Therefore Nev says inbreeding is not to be done...
Other breeders might find the cat piss appealing and thus say their inbred lines are superior....
All depends on the person....
Its not that inbreeding can't be done... Just in Nev's eyes he started to see a decline in his goal instead of the progeny surpassing the parentals...
Personally I believe Nev's emphasis on the sir line is the most important thing to take away from all of this... Find a good nev haze male and you have the power to create some of the best plants with your own personal touch... Apparently many others think this way and the establishing of seed banks primarily using MNS stock as the key parentals is abundant in todays day and age... Find male... Hit your best female... Schbang... Cannabis cup winner lol... People these days...
Nevs haze stock is a whole different story... Tune in to the soap opera channels for that drama...
Grow haze lines from MNS and then grow haze lines from these other "breeders" and make up your own mind...
Have a good one
OG
** Just wanted to add that the idea of using an MNS NEV HAZE MALE to produce a high quality breeding program can also be said to be true of other MNS lines not relating to Nev at all.... It is a well known fact that the males from the Widow family throw incredible progeny. Again i believe this is due to the dominance of the sir line and the importance placed on individual male pedigree in one to one matings. Females are nothing sort of amazing and what we are all after in the end but it is due to male traits in progeny tested individuals that really put the icing on the cake. Anyone can select a female. It takes talent and dedication to find a prized male. Luckily Shanti has taken on the blunt of this work and offers us a shortcut to breeding success. Seeing further only by standing on the shoulders of giants... And have you seen those shoulders on SB??? Atb**
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medicalguy
New member
hazes
the problem is many other breeders call something haze that really isnt haze at all i seen some breeders calling a jamacian line haze on the other hand the haze nevil has thats what he is saying doesnt breed well when puting them togther. Nevils stain called has is the only one that i find has that distink smell and taste you dont find in anyone elses haze variety
the problem is many other breeders call something haze that really isnt haze at all i seen some breeders calling a jamacian line haze on the other hand the haze nevil has thats what he is saying doesnt breed well when puting them togther. Nevils stain called has is the only one that i find has that distink smell and taste you dont find in anyone elses haze variety
Betterhaff
New member
I just read another breeder’s claim to have selected the Haze 19, he said it was the 19th out of a large lot of seeds. Not trying to tune in the soap opera, just stating what was said.