Inbreeding Neville's Haze

Mr nice is the only seed company to produce and offer Neville s haze f1s.

Neville's haze was breed by Neville but at the time when they were being offered threw GHS Neville who is the original breeder of the line breed and produced the seed away from GHS he supplied GHS with the seed and that is why GHS never had any of the haze breeding stock that Aryan has lied about to this day.

Then Shantibaba sold up and left GHS and started Mr nice and got the parents of Neville's haze and other lines from Neville and reproduced the F1s as he alone now has the parent lines to many of Neville's and his own work.

So no other seed company in short produced Neville's haze but Mr nice so 2 people ever produced Neville's haze Neville who then sold the seed to a seed company that being GHS and Mr nice being the only seed company to produce the NH and more.

Not true. Bought mine from GHS in the '90's, but of coarse from Nevil directly.
 
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Not true. Bought mine from GHS in the '90's.

Really what part of Neville produced the seed then supplied GHS with NH and SSH didnt you get mate.

Neville first produced NH seed in 94 or 95 and Neville was a partner in GHS coffee shop but not the GHS seed company.
 
Mr nice is the only seed company to produce and offer Neville s haze f1s.

Neville's haze was breed by Neville but at the time when they were being offered threw GHS Neville who is the original breeder of the line breed and produced the seed away from GHS he supplied GHS with the seed and that is why GHS never had any of the haze breeding stock that Aryan has lied about to this day.

Then Shantibaba sold up and left GHS and started Mr nice and got the parents of Neville's haze and other lines from Neville and reproduced the F1s as he alone now has the parent lines to many of Neville's and his own work.

So no other seed company in short produced Neville's haze but Mr nice so 2 people ever produced Neville's haze Neville who then sold the seed to a seed company that being GHS and Mr nice being the only seed company to produce the NH and more.

Well you weren't real clear in you statement and I did edit my statement, but not before you quoted me so... clearer wording is essential here. I was lucky enough to travel there many times in the '90's so forgive the haziness. But I stand by my edited statement. I sought out SB and Nevil for a reason, that should be clear as day and night. Cool bro?
 
Well you weren't real clear in you statement and I did edit my statement, but not before you quoted me so... clearer wording is essential here. I was lucky enough to travel there many times in the '90's so forgive the haziness. But I stand by my edited statement. I sought out SB and Nevil for a reason, that should be clear as day and night. Cool bro?

Sorry blackwater i did in fact post and i explained it very clearly.
 
Sorry blackwater i did in fact post and i explained it very clearly.

It wasn't, but after a few readings I caught your drift and edited my post to basically confirm and agree. Im not sure where the language barrier lies here, but there seems to be one.

I came here to seek out SB and Nevil, just like I did in the past. Im not here to argue. If you cannot except my edited post then we cannot agree. I suggest then we simply stay out of eachothers way as a solution, fair enough?
 
So rather than start at the beginning with a NL plant and a Haze plant, I prefer picking up the baton from where Neville and Shanti handed it off to me, as in NH for this example.

If I understand correctly, you want to achieve with Neville's Haze what Sannie's has achieved with Jack Herer (Sannies Jack F7). It smokes just like the original but purportedly has better yields and more uniformity/stability. (I've smoked Sannie's Jack but never grown it)
 
...the Nevilles Haze seeds Nev and Kanga are using were sent to them by Shanti.
Hi Jesse, I can't speak for Kanga but the NH seeds Nevil is using for grail were not ones sent by Shanti but a batch he made himself in '97.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L33t View Post
A question regarding the Grail, is there a particular reason you want to use '97NH and not freshly made NH seed ? Shanti said the NH parents never changed since NH was first made. So is there any specific reason other than the fact that the '97 seed stock was made by you and also since really old needs to get popped before its too old and unusable.
At the very least, it does make for some good symmetry The Haze beans were popped in the mid 80s after a 15ish year wait inside a plastic baggie...

ESS

I worry about things like genetic drift in cuttings. I have seen a lot of cuttings fade to pale shadows of their former selves over time. I don't have evidence that this effects the progeny, but if I can avoid the risk, I will. I know that '97 batch well, no problem there, I made them myself.
Sometimes, mistakes are forever.
N.
 
If I understand correctly, you want to achieve with Neville's Haze what Sannie's has achieved with Jack Herer (Sannies Jack F7). It smokes just like the original but purportedly has better yields and more uniformity/stability. (I've smoked Sannie's Jack but never grown it)

To improve on the original F1 to that extent through inbreeding 6 generations is truly impressive. Does anyone here have first hand experience with this line?
 
Hi Jesse, I can't speak for Kanga but the NH seeds Nevil is using for grail were not ones sent by Shanti but a batch he made himself in '97.

hey i think the confusion is both that shanti sent the seeds and that nevil made them, its just a case that nevil wanted to use his own seeds considering he had already passed on many of these for safe storage with shanti. thats how i understand it. nevils said himself he simply rather use the older ones he made himself as he still isnt sure about the effect of genetic aging on the seeds those plants produce, he already had a backup supply n simply asked shanti to send some of these back his way. i guess if nevil doesnt understand the consequences of genetic ageing he simply avoided his concerns and was well planned for the matter.

anyway i have been thinking should we can the 1:1 idea in order to create the best ibls? i mean im not talking about hybrids and totally understand nevils reasoning but despite this nevils hasnt been making countless ibls for years as he has hybrids so im just wondering does the 1:1 ruling not fit the ibl mould? just another idea i guess and im wondering what everyine else thinks.

cheers
 
Thanks for your input Mr. Fecund - you may well be right on that one. I'd assumed Nevil had his old stock looked after locally but he may well have had Shanti send them over.
 
yer what happened to nevil saying that he named nevils haze after himself as a way of letting everyone know he was leaving the business? well least im glad bout him changing his mind bout that part of being done with it.

Mr Fecund, I remember reading something like that also.

I'd like to ask you, is there any particular strain you hold near and dear to your heart above all the rest? Any special plant in your eyes? Seriously, your life story is an inspiration to MANY MANY people, and without your dedication and hard work some of the most valuable strains ever known could have been lost forever! I'd just like to know, what type of plant does it take to get the man who's seen it all get excited?

Well Ouchie, I kind of gave the game away, when I called it Nevil's Haze. It's the only thing I ever gave my name to, not out of vanity, but so you would know. I'd like to resurrect some of the 15 year old F1 N.H. we have and put to a super Thai (if I can find one). The phrase Bloodline of the Holy Grail comes to mind, but it's already taken. Bring me your virgins.
N.

http://https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-13.html

I have a lot of respect for Nevil, and Shanti too. If it wasn't for Nevil's ingenuity in getting the seeds out there as well as his breeding skills, the canna world wouldn't be what it is today. And for him to leave the genetics in Shanti's hands...well that says a lot.

Bh
 
I think somebody mentioned this but if walkabout is really landrace genetics from all over the world ... get a pack and cross your nevils haze to that.

Also been sampling a 2010 sensi NL5 Haze x 2010 MNS Nevils Haze

Almost every one of the progeny is a keeper. amazing phenos. dank dank old school stuff. You have to test the males is what it comes down to. Yu have to grow out the kids. Until you know you have a good male anything else is pointless. I'd spend more time looking for a good male through outcrossing your best Male NevilsHazes to everything and check the kids. One of the males will produce great children ... use that one.

on the topic of inbreeding the Nevils Haze ... pointless unless you have a good male. Perhaps inbreeding will allow you to discern a good male so you could try it.
 
Confusion reigns

I always get confused by these threads where ppl talk about Haze as though it is some sort of legendary IBL strain. Haze brothers Haze changed every single season for years as the Haze brothers crossed to a different sativa every season up to at least Haze #19. So every year you got 50% polyhybrid sativa crossed with 50% pure landrace IBL.

That's just the start of it. Then many seedbanks and breeders crossed various releases of Haze with other releases (eg Haze #5 with Haze #19) while other seedbanks simply called their own pet landrace sativa line "Haze" and sold it as Haze.

To make it even more confusing we apparently have Neville and/or Shanti saying that Haze doesn't do well inbred (which I concur with) while Charlie garcia and others are boasting their Haze lines have only ever been inbred as though that is a good thing.

To me Haze has come to mean "a collection of hand picked sativas mixed together" and anybody can recreate their own version of Haze if they so wish.

Following this line of reasoning then the obvious choice of a suitable cross for NH if you want to "fix" those hazey sativa traits is... a landrace sativa such as Thai. It's far simpler than inbreeding NH because you reduce the NL to only about 10% and increase the sativa expression which is what Haze was all about once upon a time.

Certainly that has been my approach... but the late flowering and extra long flowering time ... accompanied by the way NH stops growing when the temp drops too low... well my first attempt at crossing NH with a pure old school Thai was/is a complete disaster.

I am working with NH though and will continue to do so because it is one of the most unusual strains I have ever grown.

Neville Haze plants mixed in with landrace Thai plants.

DSCN2565.JPG


scrubdog
 
haze inbreed

I always get confused by these threads where ppl talk about Haze as though it is some sort of legendary IBL strain. Haze brothers Haze changed every single season for years as the Haze brothers crossed to a different sativa every season up to at least Haze #19. So every year you got 50% polyhybrid sativa crossed with 50% pure landrace IBL.

That's just the start of it. Then many seedbanks and breeders crossed various releases of Haze with other releases (eg Haze #5 with Haze #19) while other seedbanks simply called their own pet landrace sativa line "Haze" and sold it as Haze.

To make it even more confusing we apparently have Neville and/or Shanti saying that Haze doesn't do well inbred (which I concur with) while Charlie garcia and others are boasting their Haze lines have only ever been inbred as though that is a good thing.

To me Haze has come to mean "a collection of hand picked sativas mixed together" and anybody can recreate their own version of Haze if they so wish.

Following this line of reasoning then the obvious choice of a suitable cross for NH if you want to "fix" those hazey sativa traits is... a landrace sativa such as Thai. It's far simpler than inbreeding NH because you reduce the NL to only about 10% and increase the sativa expression which is what Haze was all about once upon a time.

Certainly that has been my approach... but the late flowering and extra long flowering time ... accompanied by the way NH stops growing when the temp drops too low... well my first attempt at crossing NH with a pure old school Thai was/is a complete disaster.

I am working with NH though and will continue to do so because it is one of the most unusual strains I have ever grown.

Neville Haze plants mixed in with landrace Thai plants.

DSCN2565.JPG


scrubdog

the problem is most othe breeder dont have the haze that nevil has many just call thiers haze when it just a sativa strain with unknown origns
 
Another thing Ive noticed is others breeds claim there haze comes fro jamacia or other places. so I dought it come from the same place nevil's does. and if you compare other breeders haze it doesnt have any simularities that nevils variety does the others just name ther's haze when in afct there not
 
theres only one way to find out if u can inbreed this haze. then u could tell us all how things came out. im not trying to be a smart ass....im just sayin
 
Clarification....

Its been said in this thread and many others...

Nev said inbreeding leads to the cat piss smell/phenos to occur in higher percentages....

Nev said he doesn't like cat piss...

Therefore Nev says inbreeding is not to be done...

Other breeders might find the cat piss appealing and thus say their inbred lines are superior....

All depends on the person....

Its not that inbreeding can't be done... Just in Nev's eyes he started to see a decline in his goal instead of the progeny surpassing the parentals...

Personally I believe Nev's emphasis on the sir line is the most important thing to take away from all of this... Find a good nev haze male and you have the power to create some of the best plants with your own personal touch... Apparently many others think this way and the establishing of seed banks primarily using MNS stock as the key parentals is abundant in todays day and age... Find male... Hit your best female... Schbang... Cannabis cup winner lol... People these days...

Nevs haze stock is a whole different story... Tune in to the soap opera channels for that drama...

Grow haze lines from MNS and then grow haze lines from these other "breeders" and make up your own mind...

Have a good one

OG



** Just wanted to add that the idea of using an MNS NEV HAZE MALE to produce a high quality breeding program can also be said to be true of other MNS lines not relating to Nev at all.... It is a well known fact that the males from the Widow family throw incredible progeny. Again i believe this is due to the dominance of the sir line and the importance placed on individual male pedigree in one to one matings. Females are nothing sort of amazing and what we are all after in the end but it is due to male traits in progeny tested individuals that really put the icing on the cake. Anyone can select a female. It takes talent and dedication to find a prized male. Luckily Shanti has taken on the blunt of this work and offers us a shortcut to breeding success. Seeing further only by standing on the shoulders of giants... And have you seen those shoulders on SB??? Atb**
 
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hazes

Its been said in this thread and many others...

Nev said inbreeding leads to the cat piss smell/phenos to occur in higher percentages....

Nev said he doesn't like cat piss...

Therefore Nev says inbreeding is not to be done...

Other breeders might find the cat piss appealing and thus say their inbred lines are superior....

All depends on the person....

Its not that inbreeding can't be done... Just in Nev's eyes he started to see a decline in his goal instead of the progeny surpassing the parentals...

Personally I believe Nev's emphasis on the sir line is the most important thing to take away from all of this... Find a good nev haze male and you have the power to create some of the best plants with your own personal touch... Apparently many others think this way and the establishing of seed banks primarily using MNS stock as the key parentals is abundant in todays day and age... Find male... Hit your best female... Schbang... Cannabis cup winner lol... People these days...

Nevs haze stock is a whole different story... Tune in to the soap opera channels for that drama...

Grow haze lines from MNS and then grow haze lines from these other "breeders" and make up your own mind...

Have a good one

OG



** Just wanted to add that the idea of using an MNS NEV HAZE MALE to produce a high quality breeding program can also be said to be true of other MNS lines not relating to Nev at all.... It is a well known fact that the males from the Widow family throw incredible progeny. Again i believe this is due to the dominance of the sir line and the importance placed on individual male pedigree in one to one matings. Females are nothing sort of amazing and what we are all after in the end but it is due to male traits in progeny tested individuals that really put the icing on the cake. Anyone can select a female. It takes talent and dedication to find a prized male. Luckily Shanti has taken on the blunt of this work and offers us a shortcut to breeding success. Seeing further only by standing on the shoulders of giants... And have you seen those shoulders on SB??? Atb**

the problem is many other breeders call something haze that really isnt haze at all i seen some breeders calling a jamacian line haze on the other hand the haze nevil has thats what he is saying doesnt breed well when puting them togther. Nevils stain called has is the only one that i find has that distink smell and taste you dont find in anyone elses haze variety
 
I just read another breeder’s claim to have selected the Haze 19, he said it was the 19th out of a large lot of seeds. Not trying to tune in the soap opera, just stating what was said.
 
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