In Search of the Holy Grail

sensient

Well-known member
Aloha Brother.
Stunning show as always from you✌
The Grail looks amazing!!!
I'm looking forward to seeing the final results!
Beautiful looking grow, I love seeing your grows.
I can't even begin to imagine the quality of the final product...ohhh if they were mine I would have at least one jar put away for a 6+ month cure🤤🤤🤤
Stunning as always, thank you for taking us along for the ride!!
Much love brother 🙏💚💚💚🙏
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Aah, the Holy Grail! So far, 10 weeks in florescence.
I think of the Neville’s Haze as mostly a viny, tall plant with large, pointed apical bud that is typically a composition of loosely formed single calyx structures. A 16-week cultivar. Many have long side branching with secondary smaller buds. There is a defined nodal spacing. The plants smell of citrus, frankincense and eucalyptus.
nh #3b 2_20.jpg

I think of the Doors as primarily columnar in structure suited for indoor cultivation, with tighter flower structure accompanied by some fox-tailing but not to the degree of the Neville’s. The apical cola morphology is composed of mostly domed, denser bud almost singular in form obscuring the nodal spacing. Smells are richer, deeper- savory spices and meat. The Doors is a 13-week cultivar. Both types need main stem support as flowers enlarge.
doors #7 2_20.jpg

The Holy Grail throws both kinds of morphology, viny and columnar. The buds so far, are denser than the Neville’s and perhaps more aligned with the Doors. The viny plants are similar in that they go 6-7 ft in length in 5 gallon containers starting from 16” before 12/12. The columnar plants are taller than the original Doors and until recently were self-supporting. There is more weight in the Holy Grail with bigger buds that appear more abundant along the branch lengths as well as main stem. Smells right now are eye-watering and acrid as I enter the room just before the fans turn on. The important things that define the Holy Grail is they possess thicker stems, stronger side branching and prolific root systems. The main stem at soil level measure 5/8-3/4” in width. Compared to the Doors and Neville’s, these plants have significantly larger stems and powerful root systems. Stems are hollow and stiff. You could just about use the viny main stems as fishing poles, they are that stiff and strong. Outside, these will be 20 footers for sure. I am glad to have kept clones and plan to keep and work 3 of the 5 females made up of 2 vines and 1 columnar. I also held back 2 males for the next go round now that I am sure they are worth the propagation. I am very impressed with this cultivar and will probably go right into a second round with these for seeding even though I had planned to grow the MHI, CS and to revisit the G13/AfSk. They will have to wait. Whether I combine this with the Back Door Man, I dunno as there is uniformity in this F1, so reluctant to polyhybrid it.
hg#3 c 3_1.jpggarden hg a 3_2.jpg

🤙Mu
 

Islandgrower

MNS Award Winner
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Aah, the Holy Grail! So far, 10 weeks in florescence.
I think of the Neville’s Haze as mostly a viney, tall plant with large, pointed apical bud that is typically a composition of loosely formed single calyx structures. A 16-week cultivar. Many have long side branching with secondary smaller buds. There is a defined nodal spacing. The plants smell of citrus, frankincense and eucalyptus.
View attachment 49958

I think of the Doors as primarily columnar in structure suited for indoor cultivation, with tighter flower structure accompanied by some fox-tailing but not to the degree of the Neville’s. The apical cola morphology is composed of mostly domed, denser bud almost singular in form obscuring the nodal spacing. Smells are richer, deeper- savory spices and meat. The Doors is a 13-week cultivar. Both types need main stem support as flowers enlarge.
View attachment 49959

The Holy Grail throws both kinds of morphology, viny and columnar. The buds so far, are denser than the Neville’s and perhaps more aligned with the Doors. The viny plants are similar in that they go 6-7 ft in length in 5 gallon containers starting from 16” before 12/12. The columnar plants are taller than the original Doors and until recently were self-supporting. There is more weight in the Holy Grail with bigger buds that appear more abundant along the branch lengths as well as main stem. Smells right now are eye-watering and acrid as I enter the room just before the fans turn on. The important things that define the Holy Grail is they possess thicker stems, stronger side branching and prolific root systems. The main stem at soil level measure 5/8-3/4” in width. Compared to the Doors and Neville’s, these plants have significantly larger stems and powerful root systems. Stems are hollow and stiff. You could just about use the viny main stems as fishing poles, they are that stiff and strong. Outside, these will be 20 footers for sure. I am glad to have kept clones and plan to keep and work 3 of the 5 females made up of 2 vines and 1 columnar. I also held back 2 males for the next go round now that I am sure they are worth the propagation. I am very impressed with this cultivar and will probably go right into a second round with these for seeding even though I had planned to grow the MHI, CS and to revisit the G13/AfSk. They will have to wait. Whether I combine this with the Back Door Man, I dunno as there is uniformity in this F1, so reluctant to polyhybrid it.
View attachment 49961View attachment 49960

🤙Mu
Awesome description of the structure of these specimens . It has widened my understanding of describing growth characteristics. As well as bud morphology. Holy grail looks awesome 👌 👏 😍
And I can totally understand you hesitancy to use for breeding in an outcrossing manner . Or do the doors have a common parent in their lineage ?
 

CannaFish

Well-known member
thanks for painting that picture of the 3 seed lines. that's probably a wise idea to move fwd with this line. strike the hammer while the iron is hot. Maybe the uniformity comes from it being over 80% Haze.

Holy Grail breaks down to
68.75% HZC
12.5% HZA
12.5% NL5
6.25% SK

The Doors is
37.5% HZA
37.5% NL5
12.5% HZC
12.5% SK

Nevils HZ is
50% HZC
25% HZA
25% NL5
 

Islandgrower

MNS Award Winner
thanks for painting that picture of the 3 seed lines. that's probably a wise idea to move fwd with this line. strike the hammer while the iron is hot. Maybe the uniformity comes from it being over 80% Haze.

Holy Grail breaks down to
68.75% HZC
12.5% HZA
12.5% NL5
6.25% SK

The Doors is
37.5% HZA
37.5% NL5
12.5% HZC
12.5% SK

Nevils HZ is
50% HZC
25% HZA
25% NL5
Hmmm so I guess selection would be key narrowing it down to the structure or growth style of the plants. (Meaning looking for a similarly built male as selected females)
 

sensient

Well-known member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Aah, the Holy Grail! So far, 10 weeks in florescence.
I think of the Neville’s Haze as mostly a viney, tall plant with large, pointed apical bud that is typically a composition of loosely formed single calyx structures. A 16-week cultivar. Many have long side branching with secondary smaller buds. There is a defined nodal spacing. The plants smell of citrus, frankincense and eucalyptus.
View attachment 49958

I think of the Doors as primarily columnar in structure suited for indoor cultivation, with tighter flower structure accompanied by some fox-tailing but not to the degree of the Neville’s. The apical cola morphology is composed of mostly domed, denser bud almost singular in form obscuring the nodal spacing. Smells are richer, deeper- savory spices and meat. The Doors is a 13-week cultivar. Both types need main stem support as flowers enlarge.
View attachment 49959

The Holy Grail throws both kinds of morphology, viny and columnar. The buds so far, are denser than the Neville’s and perhaps more aligned with the Doors. The viny plants are similar in that they go 6-7 ft in length in 5 gallon containers starting from 16” before 12/12. The columnar plants are taller than the original Doors and until recently were self-supporting. There is more weight in the Holy Grail with bigger buds that appear more abundant along the branch lengths as well as main stem. Smells right now are eye-watering and acrid as I enter the room just before the fans turn on. The important things that define the Holy Grail is they possess thicker stems, stronger side branching and prolific root systems. The main stem at soil level measure 5/8-3/4” in width. Compared to the Doors and Neville’s, these plants have significantly larger stems and powerful root systems. Stems are hollow and stiff. You could just about use the viny main stems as fishing poles, they are that stiff and strong. Outside, these will be 20 footers for sure. I am glad to have kept clones and plan to keep and work 3 of the 5 females made up of 2 vines and 1 columnar. I also held back 2 males for the next go round now that I am sure they are worth the propagation. I am very impressed with this cultivar and will probably go right into a second round with these for seeding even though I had planned to grow the MHI, CS and to revisit the G13/AfSk. They will have to wait. Whether I combine this with the Back Door Man, I dunno as there is uniformity in this F1, so reluctant to polyhybrid it.
View attachment 49961View attachment 49960

🤙Mu
Hey Mu, great write up man!
Regarding combining with the BDM, I understand your reluctance in creating a pollyhybrid.
Personally, I would go for it...but that's me.
The quality involved in the genetics at hand is impeccable...I'm thinking the offspring would be pretty special!
A little bit of hunting may yield that pheno where the most desirable traits stack perfectly.....you never know mate, your quest for the Grail may be leading you down this path🙏
Maybe a few hits on that NH will assist your decision...it may just be your diviners sage✌
Peace brother🙏💚✌
 

n2ishun

Well-known member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

Aah, the Holy Grail! So far, 10 weeks in florescence.
I think of the Neville’s Haze as mostly a viney, tall plant with large, pointed apical bud that is typically a composition of loosely formed single calyx structures. A 16-week cultivar. Many have long side branching with secondary smaller buds. There is a defined nodal spacing. The plants smell of citrus, frankincense and eucalyptus.
View attachment 49958

I think of the Doors as primarily columnar in structure suited for indoor cultivation, with tighter flower structure accompanied by some fox-tailing but not to the degree of the Neville’s. The apical cola morphology is composed of mostly domed, denser bud almost singular in form obscuring the nodal spacing. Smells are richer, deeper- savory spices and meat. The Doors is a 13-week cultivar. Both types need main stem support as flowers enlarge.
View attachment 49959

The Holy Grail throws both kinds of morphology, viny and columnar. The buds so far, are denser than the Neville’s and perhaps more aligned with the Doors. The viny plants are similar in that they go 6-7 ft in length in 5 gallon containers starting from 16” before 12/12. The columnar plants are taller than the original Doors and until recently were self-supporting. There is more weight in the Holy Grail with bigger buds that appear more abundant along the branch lengths as well as main stem. Smells right now are eye-watering and acrid as I enter the room just before the fans turn on. The important things that define the Holy Grail is they possess thicker stems, stronger side branching and prolific root systems. The main stem at soil level measure 5/8-3/4” in width. Compared to the Doors and Neville’s, these plants have significantly larger stems and powerful root systems. Stems are hollow and stiff. You could just about use the viny main stems as fishing poles, they are that stiff and strong. Outside, these will be 20 footers for sure. I am glad to have kept clones and plan to keep and work 3 of the 5 females made up of 2 vines and 1 columnar. I also held back 2 males for the next go round now that I am sure they are worth the propagation. I am very impressed with this cultivar and will probably go right into a second round with these for seeding even though I had planned to grow the MHI, CS and to revisit the G13/AfSk. They will have to wait. Whether I combine this with the Back Door Man, I dunno as there is uniformity in this F1, so reluctant to polyhybrid it.
View attachment 49961View attachment 49960

🤙Mu
Curios that 1st pic look a ton like one of my thais.
Yea I have a pheno almost identical.
Will post pic in this thread for comparison if it's cool witchu and only if (I dont like stepping on someone else's thread like that).
The whiffs I get ( to me ) smells first of clove with a light hint of cinnamon with a mango/papaya/pineapple sweetness and maybe some slight bit of yellow curry, but just a tiny bit.
I could possibly see your take on the smells as being identical to mine but just from a different view...
I might have to grab some grail and run em side by each just out of curiosity, might be fun and well....telling of the origins of hzc.
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Thanks, I'm flattered and it sounds like a great idea in a different thread, i.e. comparing Neville's to thai. Not wanting to muddy the waters, I prefer to stay on topic with introducing a new MNS strain Holy Grail. I wish to show, share and provide specific information on this particular plant. Thanks for your understanding.

🤙Mu
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha everyone!

Looking at @CannaFish's numbers, I have to agree that due to the lineage, The Doors is a heavier high than the Neville’s Haze as evidenced by some lethargy on the comedown. Everyone has their own definition of their Holy Grail experience. For me, I’m a speedfreak, I like to soar. I am not knocking the excellence of The Doors but if push comes to shove, I would pick the Neville’s over the Doors and it is the same reason I chose to cultivate the HG. Going forward, I have two HG males to explore the potential. If I’m reading it right, even the Holy Smoke has less NL than the Doors. I have two males of this strain also. Four males total with high haze numbers. Imagine the possibilities.
There is no arguing the importance of males. And as many already know, one of the best reasons to buy MNS seed is because of the outstanding males to be found. Having males and using them the old fashioned way exponentially increases the permutation experience. That’s The Doors talking this morning lol.
Not caring for the effects of NL or skunk, I prefer higher haze numbers in my smoke but as an ID grower, I have to consider reasonable times and most importantly stability. Hybrids work for me in that regard and the AC genetics contributes positively to the whole. As I move into week 11, the HG is heavily cloaked in white pistils with trichome production just beginning. Have a beautiful day!

hg grp2 3_12.jpg

🤙Mu
 

CannaFish

Well-known member
it will be interesting to see how holy smoke compares to the doors. HS does have less NL but it still has the afghan to equalize the numbers.
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Aloha fellow Firewalkers!

As you can see, the Holy Grail still has an abundance of white and yellow with minimal browning save one plant. It is reasonable to expect these to lag the HS by 2-4 weeks. They too continue to add weight and powder. I'm getting giddy braddahs! Clones will go in 5x5's today. I have eliminated the smaller, sparser ones and given them to a friend who was eager to pick them up and give them a go.
#4 shown in the last pictures is a brute, she will go the distance. Still overly hirsute, not too heavily powdered but with large buds, I wonder when she will add the trichs. She is the keeper for sure.

hg5 3_19.jpg

hg6 3_19.jpg

hg7 3_19.jpg

hg8 3_19.jpg

hg9 3_19.jpg

hg10 3_19.jpg

hg11 3_19.jpg

🤙Mu
 

shantibaba

Breeder and moderator
Hi All

an absolute pleasure to read and view. The proof is in curing the flower for 3 months after harvesting and drying it ...and then comparing all 3 NH, Doors and HG also HS...these are connoisseur's cultivars and only when you have well cured well grown samples in front you really understand those differences. Then it is clear how to use mother plants to combine to other fathers etc...but these are powerful tools for breeding. As i always say these sativa cultivars are not for everyone but for those old enough to recall the first trippy weed...well you will find it in these old cultivars. Great show M...excellent work as per usual. All the best Sb

ps the best question to ask an old grower when you see these flowers...is what is in your stash box or pocket you are not showing me....and which strain is used up first when you have an equal amount of each to begin with.....?
 
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