Diesel840
2025 Circle of Excellence
Good luck with your project. Let us know which route you decide to go. I'm sure Shantis g13haze is
. It's an IBL, could find some powerful breeders in there.
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HazeC, C5, what did I miss?
- Thread starter helmsman
- Start date
. It's an IBL, could find some powerful breeders in there.Nightmare.
Active member
I did'nt know mr nice do a g13 x haze C ? I thought there was just g13 x (a5haze x skunk haze) and i think mr nice had g13 x afghan haze C.Correct. The goal is to find as pure a plant to Haze C male and to keep it for future crosses with female plants of unrelated genetics. I only recently got familiar with Haze C and was so impressed that I decided I should have my own male. To mate with any girl I'll meet and fall in love with. (Damn, this last sentence of mine make me sound like a pervert)
I never had a chance to experience Haze A as a pure smoke. But I am well familiar with a Nevil's Haze. This is not something I am going to smoke daily or even weekly. Not even monthly. She is leading me to the dark voids which I simply would not dare to frequent. Powerful energy is there, but it's more on a dark side for me. Do not get me wrong, I like it. But only occasionally. In secluded outdoor, like night on the beach.
Thank you for advice. I thought about it. Bought just today in fact. Now I have a tough dilemma again. If I should start with Nl5Hzc or with a G13HzC to get to f2 to find the male. Are there any solid evidence that C genes is more dominant in a G13HzC marriage compared with Nl5Hzc?
Diesel840, thank you!
I petition @musashi to add the title to your status of Well-known member.
The noble title of “The Well of Wisdom”. Or Mímisbrunnr if you prefer Old Norse.
Information you provided saved me the time and efforts of mining for scattered shards of valuable facts and helped to make the decision to set Nl5HzC as a starting point of the future lengthy journey. (Still thinking about what @Nightmare. said about QUOTE "for haze C the easiest strain ive ever seen phenotypes pop up in are the g13 x haze" UNQUOTE
So, I ordered myself a second pack of NL5 x Haze seeds to add to the single pack I have already in my library, added also a pack of G13 Haze to the order and dived into the reading about the homozygous heterozygous hemizygous staff heavily laced with interspecific / intrageneric staff with a Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium to estimate genotypic frequency on top of it.
Feeling myself thick and dumb in some places. A bit too much for the stoner’s brain.
So, I went for the basics, Gregor’s Mendel "Experiments on Plant Hybridization". Missus got suspicious when glanced on a laptop over my shoulder and noted Versuche über Pflanzenhybriden title on the screen. So, when I came later into the kitchen ranting about inheritance über hybridization, I was given wary look and expelled from the premises.
Needed to clear the head, reached for the special jar. One good toke and a few moments later it’s all downed on me, what really happened to Mendel.
See, Mendel was Augustian friar and he must have heard fellow monks raving about mysterious sativa staff, talking to the burning bushes again, filling temple with smoke from the glory of God and promising each other “to take them out of the gates and stone them to death” ( Deuteronomy 17). But Mendel was not just your humble friar but abbot and naturally, monks were keeping things from the boss.
Being a man of faith, Mendel exclaimed:Hell!Heaven! I am going to find for myself! And then he planted Pisum Sativum L. Little did he know that monastery whispers were not about a pea plant. Here we come again on a subject of importance of getting right seeds from the right breeder.
Mendel spent seven years, cultivated and tested some 28,000 plants on his monastery's 5 acres. Settled on studying seven traits that seemed to be inherited independently of other traits. Talk about Nevil’s Cannabis Castle! Imagine what this Mendel guy could do if Sam Skunkman’s famous seeds bag ended in his hands.
I thought about it and felt Blue in Green, so I took another toke. And again, things downed on me. It is known recorded fact that Abbot Mendel’s superior Bishop giggled when was informed of the detailed genealogies of peas. Bastard knew all along that Mendel got it wrong trying to get high on peas. All these years.
Poor Mendel.
Nightmare.
Active member
Has shanti baba said thats haze C to any one or on the forum. Looks qiute diffrent. Haze C was almost like a medusa with fine branches that shoot out everywere. Shortish leaves, and overall a very wild looking plant. The above looks quite tame in comparison. Haze C was on display at the castle at one point and was a very wild looking plant with unique leaves and fine branches with the polen pods on shooting out in every which direction. Almost like a mess of a birds nest that hadnt been rounded off, just long twighs sticking out every were. One of musashis nevils haze phenos documented on the mr nice site. It had the smallish leaves and allstrings with tiny round buds on them. That reminded me somewhat of haze c , but a tamed version of it. Hope that helps.Thinking.
Here, eight Nl5 x Haze males from @musashi grow. Being "straight f1s of HazeC", at least couple of them should have displayed Haze C male morphology, no?
View attachment 98821
In the MNS thread "Unique haze c progeny leaf morphology": https://mrnice.nl/forum/threads/unique-haze-c-progeny-leaf-morphology.17542/
we can see Haze C photo found in another forum, posted by hempy. And other photos with no resemblance to Musashi's boys.
Nightmare.
Active member
Looks like thats been mistakenly put up as the pure c haze male. It should be something like this.
Nightmare.
Active member
A c x g13 reversed. Not mine i just found it on net. These can pop up in all hz c hybryids , just some you have to search through loads or if the proper f1 you could always reverse or f2 . Iv seen the same come out of f2 ssh years ago aswell
helmsman
Active member
Beautiful picture but of little use. Hue of pigmentation of petals of calyxes alone will not serve as a trait in the search of the pheno.
Certainly, stem and leaf morphology and phyllotaxy may. Probably to certain extent only. Btw, here is the noteworthy post of Shanti in the highly educational thread
Unique haze c progeny leaf morphology
QUOTEshantibaba said:
Personally it is difficult to put so much onto a single trait like leaf traits...as this does not reflect the other traits very well generally. Glad to see people delving into theories and ideas, but both Nevil and I never used a plant that went to more than 16 weeks flower in breeding. We also know that HzC male instils a particular aroma to a strain and this is one of its strongest traits. In fact if you do crack alot of seed of any of the major sativas we at MNS produce, you will smell a more common trait than see one...but leaf traits in such strains as G13 really do stand out as dominant traits the mother passes on for example.....all the best Sb
UNQUOTE
After reading this I recollected that I've read somewhere that Nevil heavily relied on his nose in his breeding.
My kind of guy
. I am an avid collector of old perfumes, of few types. Those fragrances which are banned for a long time now, like schypre oakmoss, etc..Personally I give a damn about taste, aroma and flavor of dry bud. As long as smoke is not too harsh, it's all about high to me. But I also appreciate a subtle nuances of good wine and real tea too and staff like that. Was always amazed how powerful smell is the trigger of emotions and memory. Nose can tell us a lot. I know this.
helmsman
Active member
I am sure I've never seen this picture on forums. Any chance you may recollect where original was posted?
Nightmare.
Active member
Yep.
Some other haze C decendants were a similar thread can be identified.
pictures i found on the site. Most likley worked seedlines that have double doses or more of haze C ontop of what ever else.Attachments
helmsman
Active member
Episode 93 Ft Shantibaba of Mr Nice Seeds / CBD Crew - 05/12/23 - The Pot Cast
Quotes:1:36:57
Pot Caster: "If you had to restart Mr Nice with just one pack of your own stock what pack would you use?"
Shanti: "Afghan Haze, it's the building block of nearly every kind of 50/50... A Haze and and sativa. I still find it to be one of the most reliable strains in our camp along with Ash, Afghan Haze by Afghan
Skunk, so those ones..... if you look towards the extreme sides of the Haze side I could definitely find something towards like Neville Haze and on the other side I could
definitely find some very fast flowering Afghan fruity strong narcotic things, so Afghan Haze is a very big building block for me.
....
Just sharing.
Did I get it right that this one is also based on a HazeC male, like everything else of Shanti's Haze crosses (except La Nina)?
longball
Well-known member
Mullumbimby Madness not Haze C. I'm pretty sure the Afghan Haze comes from the same male line as La Nina which is Thai/Columbian. Notice in the above comment and the descriptions that Haze C is never mentioned.
"Family Breed: Afghan x Haze (origins of Thai/Columbia)"
"I did not have use of Nevils Haze C pollen for this...so it was one only plant out of the family of Haze C. The seed I used was from original seed grown in northern NSW in the late 70s and 80s of which some refferred to it as Mullumbimby Madness...what I considered a Thai Columbian inbreed line from a fellow grower who had had it growing and collected the seed himself from those places in his travels. There were other strains similar viewed as Mullum Madness, so it depends who you spoke to at the time.Nevertheless it was never written up to be Haze C male."
While that comment is about La Nina it also fits the Afghan Haze as the Afghan Haze also uses Thai/Columbian as a male. Haze C is never mentioned in any description of Afghan Haze. ASH is also made with Mullumbimby Madness.
Afghan Haze, 7 weeks of flowering outdoors in upstate New York. It went around 13 weeks.
Longball
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helmsman
Active member
So, @longball , you think above thesis of @Diesel840 may not be correct?
Then, Shanti saying in same sentence about Afghan Haze quote I could definitely find something towards like Neville Haze unquote. And Neville's Haze is a (NL5/HazeA x HazeC)
As interesting as subject of genealogy of strains may be, I am here purely for a purely practical reason, trying do decide which one these three will take me to the closest approximation of HazeC male keeper to be searched and found in f2 progeny of 1. NL5 x Haze // 2. G13 Haze // 3. Afghan Haze.
I have seeds of all these three. And I am still uncertain.
Diesel840
2025 Circle of Excellence
Correct. Afghan Haze uses Hz C, not Shantis Mulumbimby Madness that is used in La Nina
helmsman
Active member
The beast of beauty. Finished outdoor at latitude 41N after 13 weeks? (envy smiley).
Diesel840
2025 Circle of Excellence
I feel like all three bring something unique, to the table. All three use HzC as the sativa, but each affects the hybrid in a slightly different way.
Nl5Hz is a classic building block and once recomended by Nevil for budding breeders. The Nl5 used though is shantis own selection and seems to impart more indica looking growth in the f1's, than nevils original selection.
G13Hz is an IBL, so great for breeding, and many feel that G13Hz exemplifies the haze. Shanti selected for certain G13 traits though, some features such as leaf morphology will look very G13. Though great for outcrossing as an IBL, making "f2's" wouldn't segregate the phenos as much as the other two chemovars.
AfghanHaze is recommended by Shanti, and tends to throw very sativa dominant plants. It tends to shine when cured for ling periods, just like a good haze should. Not being an IBL, you could take it to f2, like the nl5hz, and select the throwback Haze C plants.
If I had to choose a strain to find a male Haze C keeper I would take Holy Grail.
71% Haze C.
About Afghan Haze I don't think it's the best idea.
I grew this strain a long time ago and the Afghani side stood out much more than the Haze side, I remember the taste was close to strawberry, which often happens with Afghan indicas (For example many Sensi Afghani#1 phenotypes have this type of aroma).
I grew NL5/Haze in parallel and the taste was closer to classic Haze hybrids.
And dont forget NL5 is NL/Hawaiian so is not a pure indica like the afghan mother.
71% Haze C.
About Afghan Haze I don't think it's the best idea.
I grew this strain a long time ago and the Afghani side stood out much more than the Haze side, I remember the taste was close to strawberry, which often happens with Afghan indicas (For example many Sensi Afghani#1 phenotypes have this type of aroma).
I grew NL5/Haze in parallel and the taste was closer to classic Haze hybrids.
And dont forget NL5 is NL/Hawaiian so is not a pure indica like the afghan mother.
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Diesel840
2025 Circle of Excellence
@helmsman you could always grow out a straw of the two varieties that most intigue you, grow them small to keep the numbers higher, and select from the variety that most closely resembles what you're looking for with Haze C. If you grow out a full straw of two or 3 different varieties, you'd have a good represwntation of what that line offers and can stick with that line for further exploration.
have you checked out @Swifty threads? He does a pretty good pheno hunting with multiple plants in the same container.
have you checked out @Swifty threads? He does a pretty good pheno hunting with multiple plants in the same container.
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