Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[joshuahazen]

Right on Dr. Purp. What is Royal Haze? Hows the smoke report.
I have smoked Maui on the island, only ever saw it in the bag, dark green, kind of fruity, some of stoniest shit I ever smoked in my life. Stupifying. How is your sample?

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I lived on Maui in 1977. Had 3 jobs and a Rick James surfboard. This Maui smells more hazy. The slower budding plant is very strong. Neither of them remind me of what I had on the Island back then

 

[bushweed]

Jeez you've got some good shoulders on you mate...

We need you to come back to Mullum to help Nev carry some shit up the hill

 

[joshuahazen]

I lived on Maui in 1977. Had 3 jobs and a Rick James surfboard. This Maui smells more hazy. The slower budding plant is very strong. Neither of them remind me of what I had on the Island back then

Well that is interesting, that you say that. Someone I worked with many years ago moved to Maui in 96, He's been there ever since. He adopted some of my HHG Hybrids and went in his own direction with them. You never know, maybe your Maui has 5hz in it. Wouldn't that be funny.

 

[bigherb]

Bush

you really are a funny guy

 

[kashrocks]

We need you to come back to Mullum to help Nev carry some shit up the hill

One can see here the benefits of a regular practise of swimming...

Shanti is the Ian Thorpe of cannabis.

Peace.

K.

 

[Kangativa]

There seems to be a good debate going on outdoor V indoor.....so here is my opinion. I have smoked indoor very rarely because it gives me a headache and lacks the sweet taste of organically grown MJ. Now i am not talking about throw a plant in the ground and watch it grow, but properly prepared soil full of all the goodness and microbes you can think of.
It a bit like comparing hydroponic tomatoes to organically grown ones, the organic ones come out on top every time.
Plus you cannot compare lights to the sun as the sun also supplies vitamins necassary for sweet tasting pot.
what is lacking with outdoors is the resin production, because of rain ( another healthy benifit, depending where you live of course ) and wind and who knows what else.
Anyway that is my opinion and I am sure there are others who think the same.

Bigherb...I am working with the X18 right now and have just crossed it to a very nice Ghana and Shanti's Mazar male's. should be a very nice cross.

Ok the Grail is going along slowly at the moment, but a lot of pollinating has been done with the Oaxacan male 27.
The strains that I also mentioned are looking very good as seedlings and I must say the Purp Mex Thai's are looking very nice even at 10'' tall, its nice to see some colour in seedlings

As I said before we are actually using some fem seeds and yesterday I found one had hermied, as you can imagine I was pissed off as this might have just ruined a patch, I will just have to wait and find out
So my opinion of fem seeds hasnt changed and if people want to take the chance with them that is entirely up to them......but as a breeding tool I would step very lightly and stress the shit out of them before hand.
Please I am not here to start a war again......it is just my opinion.

Nev is still on walkabouts and say's he will get the report written up soon on the Mex, MM and crosses......wont you mate

 

[british_hempire]

Without tasting your outdoor i can't compare but my 2c on outdoor vs indoor is this - outdoor in northerly climes is always leafy, that makes a big difference, I've smoked a fair bit of outdoor grown in southerly climes like spain and the best of it was probably better than the best indoor, but most of it was inferior, I put that down to the genes they were growing and their lack of skills, they also had mad bug problems.

So for us guys with a poor climate, outdoor will never match up, I wish I could compare the best indoor to the best outdoor from a good climate but I'm not in a position to do so.

I would be happy to send down some samples of my best indoor to enable you to do a comparison, not organically grown, I'm just starting an organic grow.

 

[Kangativa]

Without tasting your outdoor i can't compare but my 2c on outdoor vs indoor is this - outdoor in northerly climes is always leafy, that makes a big difference, I've smoked a fair bit of outdoor grown in southerly climes like spain and the best of it was probably better than the best indoor, but most of it was inferior, I put that down to the genes they were growing and their lack of skills, they also had mad bug problems.

So for us guys with a poor climate, outdoor will never match up, I wish I could compare the best indoor to the best outdoor from a good climate but I'm not in a position to do so.

I would be happy to send down some samples of my best indoor to enable you to do a comparison, not organically grown, I'm just starting an organic grow.

Hi BH.....good to see you back.
I think the best comparision is when i get some clones of Hempy's Mango Haze and Nev can do it indoors and I can do it outdoors.
But you are right climate can have a lot to do with it as well. Same as genetics.
See how you go with your organic grow, I have heard it is hard indoors.
Maybe you might think that is better as well.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Indoor vs Outdoor

If anyone really had a desire to know the truth, they would grow a plant both indoors and outdoors, have it analyzed.
Anything else is speculation.

 

[bigherb]

The subject is indeed interesting with mixed opinions

As Dr.purpur mentions is all speculation without testing .But id like to mention not just any indoor location was the mindset of my opinion.I cant imagine comparing a perfect tropical local to an indoor set-up ,in a recent private convo i used hawaii as an example of how can we compare the volcanic soil which comes from evolution.I dont think we can compare it to store bought organic's IMO its no comparison.

Another thought id like to add is ive heard of perennials (Nepalese, thai's, colombians,india)which are rarely spoke of and could be myth ,how can we compare a plant which is in ground for say 9 months let alone a plant that has been in the ground for 18 months or more to an 8-10 week hybrids or 16 week strain.

Id love to hear shanti's thought on perennial cannabis as he has traveled far and wide

Kanga

I look forward to the outcome especially in your hands ,the ghana X has me excited .I havnt heard about shanti's mazar line ,Im curious to know about the traits.But i could imagine they would both be a beautiful paring, possibly an ultimate hashplant.

Thanks for the update on the grail the purple mex sounds intriguing.i have high anticaption for those smoke reports .

Curious if Nevil has got hold of any thai he desired which was similar to the buddah sticks he spoke of ?


1luvbigherb

 

[Yosemite Sam]

There seems to be a good debate going on outdoor V indoor.....so here is my opinion. I have smoked indoor very rarely because it gives me a headache and lacks the sweet taste of organically grown MJ. Now i am not talking about throw a plant in the ground and watch it grow, but properly prepared soil full of all the goodness and microbes you can think of.
It a bit like comparing hydroponic tomatoes to organically grown ones, the organic ones come out on top every time.
Plus you cannot compare lights to the sun as the sun also supplies vitamins necassary for sweet tasting pot.
what is lacking with outdoors is the resin production, because of rain ( another healthy benifit, depending where you live of course ) and wind and who knows what else.
Anyway that is my opinion and I am sure there are others who think the same.

Bigherb...I am working with the X18 right now and have just crossed it to a very nice Ghana and Shanti's Mazar male's. should be a very nice cross.

So for us guys with a poor climate, outdoor will never match up, I wish I could compare the best indoor to the best outdoor from a good climate but I'm not in a position to do so.

If anyone really had a desire to know the truth, they would grow a plant both indoors and outdoors, have it analyzed.
Anything else is speculation.

Hey guys,
I agree with you all on the subject indoor vs outdoors. Climate and genes are the most important players.

Dr purpur, i can't do what you suggest simply cause the climate where i live is much to cold and dark to grow sativa dom hybrids.

In the past I've tried to grow sativa dom hybrids outdoors in our northern climate, just to see how the plant reacts to an outdoor environment but when they start flowering the hours light decrease to fast, it's getting to cold and to humid to be able to finnish them proper.

However, what I've learned from this is I always put a few cuttings outside in veg to revitalise the plants.
A couple of months later I take cuts from these revitalised plants and take the cuttings back inside till the next year.
This way a strain stays fresh and enables me to keep these cuts for years and years.
This is an example of the importance of giving the plants sunlight/wind and rain.
If I would keep these cuttings strictly indoors for years the strain would loose her quality or even die.

So I'm trying to give them the best of the two and keep my plants healthy this way.
Regards,
YS

 

[joshuahazen]

There seems to be a good debate going on outdoor V indoor.....so here is my opinion. I have smoked indoor very rarely because it gives me a headache and lacks the sweet taste of organically grown MJ. Now i am not talking about throw a plant in the ground and watch it grow, but properly prepared soil full of all the goodness and microbes you can think of.
It a bit like comparing hydroponic tomatoes to organically grown ones, the organic ones come out on top every time.
Plus you cannot compare lights to the sun as the sun also supplies vitamins necassary for sweet tasting pot.
what is lacking with outdoors is the resin production, because of rain ( another healthy benifit, depending where you live of course ) and wind and who knows what else.
Anyway that is my opinion and I am sure there are others who think the same.

Bigherb...I am working with the X18 right now and have just crossed it to a very nice Ghana and Shanti's Mazar male's. should be a very nice cross.

Ok the Grail is going along slowly at the moment, but a lot of pollinating has been done with the Oaxacan male 27.
The strains that I also mentioned are looking very good as seedlings and I must say the Purp Mex Thai's are looking very nice even at 10'' tall, its nice to see some colour in seedlings

As I said before we are actually using some fem seeds and yesterday I found one had hermied, as you can imagine I was pissed off as this might have just ruined a patch, I will just have to wait and find out
So my opinion of fem seeds hasnt changed and if people want to take the chance with them that is entirely up to them......but as a breeding tool I would step very lightly and stress the shit out of them before hand.
Please I am not here to start a war again......it is just my opinion.

Nev is still on walkabouts and say's he will get the report written up soon on the Mex, MM and crosses......wont you mate

I agree Kanga, about outdoor vs indoor.
Thanks for the update.

If anyone really had a desire to know the truth, they would grow a plant both indoors and outdoors, have it analyzed.
Anything else is speculation.

I have analyzed many strains from clone, doing just this, and my opinion... Outdoor has been better in every instance. But it is in important to remember that I am talking about growing in one of the best climates for ganja in the entire world, using the best techniques, and growing them to perfection.

Now when I say better, I mean, denser, more potent, and tastier.

It should also be noted that I am traditionally an indoor grower, and was introduced to outdoor growing many years after. I literally had to see this with my own eyes to believe it.

Hey guys,
I agree with you all on the subject indoor vs outdoors. Climate and genes are the most important players.

Dr purpur, i can't do what you suggest simply cause the climate where i live is much to cold and dark to grow sativa dom hybrids.

In the past I've tried to grow sativa dom hybrids outdoors in our northern climate, just to see how the plant reacts to an outdoor environment but when they start flowering the hours light decrease to fast, it's getting to cold and to humid to be able to finnish them proper.

However, what I've learned from this is I always put a few cuttings outside in veg to revitalise the plants.
A couple of months later I take cuts from these revitalised plants and take the cuttings back inside till the next year.
This way a strain stays fresh and enables me to keep these cuts for years and years.
This is an example of the importance of giving the plants sunlight/wind and rain.
If I would keep these cuttings strictly indoors for years the strain would loose her quality or even die.

So I'm trying to give them the best of the two and keep my plants healthy this way.
Regards,
YS

Thanks for the tip YS I have heard this before from other sources. It is very telling, how just a few days in the sunshine can have such a profound affect on gene expression isn't it?

 

[jim dankness]

I have analyzed many strains from clone, doing just this, and my opinion... Outdoor has been better in every instance. But it is in important to remember that I am talking about growing in one of the best climates for ganja in the entire world, using the best techniques, and growing them to perfection.

Josh, I believe Dr. Purpur is speaking of lab analysis, as bioassay and visual analysis has lead us to the current impasse in the debate. I would be quite interested to see cannabinoid and/or terpinoid profiles of a clone grown indoor verses outdoor (each of course receiving more or less the same nutrient regimen). Until then, we may have to rely on the upcoming Kanga vs. Nevil MangoHz trials as our standard bearer on this topic!

I think it's splitting hairs to debate which is better, as they both have relative virtues and disadvantages. Outdoor cannabis is wonderful in its flavors and well-rounded in the depth of effect; indoor cannabis, in a perfect world at least, has the advantage of a finely-tuned environment (filtered intakes, atmospheric control, etc.).

In an era of increasing industrialization and pollution, one might argue that an indoor crop has the potential to be cleaner than its outdoor sisters. The amount of airborne pollution that I see collected on my car every morning is staggering (and gets significantly worse during fire season here in CA). But this is probably less of a problem in less populous places than where I reside.

There is a secondary issue at hand as well-- the theoretically 'cleaner' indoor cannabis causing more pollution through the resource-heavy means of indoor growing.

I'll leave the final word on this discussion to others, and will continue my constant and tireless indoor vs. outdoor bioassaying!

 

[kashrocks]

I think it's splitting hairs to debate which is better, as they both have relative virtues and disadvantages.

I agree with that statement.

That said it is clear that for a medicinal usage well cultivated indoor cannabis seems safer...

Peace.

K.

 

[PondeLftHndSide]

FWIW, I gave one of my pet cuttings to a first-time grower (but experienced gardener), which she grew in her Northern CA backyard. I had that plant dialed like 867-5309 in my indoor setup. She turned in a sample at the end of the season that almost made me ashamed to crack my own jars of the same plant. No comparison. The only thing my indoor had on it was, as Kanga pointed out a few posts back, increased visible resin coverage and better 'bag appeal'. Her outdoor sample had superior aromatics, flavor notes that didn't even exist in my indoor samples, and a markedly increased 'kindness' to the head that even inexperienced smokers noticed. It was hands down, far and away the best jar of herb I had in the house while it was around. Made me re-think my whole shit...

 

[joshuahazen]

Josh, I believe Dr. Purpur is speaking of lab analysis, as bioassay and visual analysis has lead us to the current impasse in the debate. I would be quite interested to see cannabinoid and/or terpinoid profiles of a clone grown indoor verses outdoor (each of course receiving more or less the same nutrient regimen). Until then, we may have to rely on the upcoming Kanga vs. Nevil MangoHz trials as our standard bearer on this topic!

I think it's splitting hairs to debate which is better, as they both have relative virtues and disadvantages. Outdoor cannabis is wonderful in its flavors and well-rounded in the depth of effect; indoor cannabis, in a perfect world at least, has the advantage of a finely-tuned environment (filtered intakes, atmospheric control, etc.).

In an era of increasing industrialization and pollution, one might argue that an indoor crop has the potential to be cleaner than its outdoor sisters. The amount of airborne pollution that I see collected on my car every morning is staggering (and gets significantly worse during fire season here in CA). But this is probably less of a problem in less populous places than where I reside.

There is a secondary issue at hand as well-- the theoretically 'cleaner' indoor cannabis causing more pollution through the resource-heavy means of indoor growing.

I'll leave the final word on this discussion to others, and will continue my constant and tireless indoor vs. outdoor bioassaying!

Hi Jim,

I have never put too much faith in lab analysis. Case in point: I had 2 Seedbank clones, one a NL#1 which apparently had an average thc content of around 22%, and a NL5Hz clone, which had an average thc content of just 17%.

Now you could smoke fat joints of that NL#1 all day long and you would not be as high as you could get from a single big hit of the NL5Hz. Why is that?
I believe that within the cannabinoid profile there are many cannabinoids, most of which have not been identified to date, that are responsible for exponentially compounding the effects of THC. That is just my theory though. Its the only explanation I could think of.

 

[Donald Mallard]

There seems to be a good debate going on outdoor V indoor.....so here is my opinion. I have smoked indoor very rarely because it gives me a headache and lacks the sweet taste of organically grown MJ. Now i am not talking about throw a plant in the ground and watch it grow, but properly prepared soil full of all the goodness and microbes you can think of.
It a bit like comparing hydroponic tomatoes to organically grown ones, the organic ones come out on top every time.
Plus you cannot compare lights to the sun as the sun also supplies vitamins necassary for sweet tasting pot.
what is lacking with outdoors is the resin production, because of rain ( another healthy benifit, depending where you live of course ) and wind and who knows what else.
Anyway that is my opinion and I am sure there are others who think the same.

Bigherb...I am working with the X18 right now and have just crossed it to a very nice Ghana and Shanti's Mazar male's. should be a very nice cross.

Ok the Grail is going along slowly at the moment, but a lot of pollinating has been done with the Oaxacan male 27.
The strains that I also mentioned are looking very good as seedlings and I must say the Purp Mex Thai's are looking very nice even at 10'' tall, its nice to see some colour in seedlings

As I said before we are actually using some fem seeds and yesterday I found one had hermied, as you can imagine I was pissed off as this might have just ruined a patch, I will just have to wait and find out
So my opinion of fem seeds hasnt changed and if people want to take the chance with them that is entirely up to them......but as a breeding tool I would step very lightly and stress the shit out of them before hand.
Please I am not here to start a war again......it is just my opinion.

Nev is still on walkabouts and say's he will get the report written up soon on the Mex, MM and crosses......wont you mate

Hi mr kanga ,,
i definately agree with your preferance for outdoor over indoor ,,
its absolutely mine as you already know ..'

on the resin production ,, generally its bettter indoor ,,
though i get some much the same during the dry season when theres perfect weather and no rain ...

sad to hear about the interesexed female plant , where are they from??

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Hi Jim,

I have never put too much faith in lab analysis. Case in point: I had 2 Seedbank clones, one a NL#1 which apparently had an average thc content of around 22%, and a NL5Hz clone, which had an average thc content of just 17%.

Now you could smoke fat joints of that NL#1 all day long and you would not be as high as you could get from a single big hit of the NL5Hz. Why is that?
I believe that within the cannabinoid profile there are many cannabinoids, most of which have not been identified to date, that are responsible for exponentially compounding the effects of THC. That is just my theory though. Its the only explanation I could think of.

Thats why You need to do a controlled expiriment Bro.
Harborside in Oakland can do all kinds of tests for You. Gas chromatography/mass spectrometry, gas chromatography/flame ionization detection, and plate culture analysis.

Harborside will be offering My Honeydew Headband cut after Tuesday, in case You are interested. Its an 11 week Kush with over 25% THC, and just a touch of relaxed body high. I will be running it Outdoors this year as it also gets pretty damn big too.

 

[joshuahazen]

Thats why You need to do a controlled expiriment Bro.
Harborside in Oakland can do all kinds of tests for You. Gas chromatography/mass spectrometry, gas chromatography/flame ionization detection, and plate culture analysis.

Harborside will be offering My Honeydew Headband cut after Tuesday, in case You are interested. Its an 11 week Kush with over 25% THC, and just a touch of relaxed body high. I will be running it Outdoors this year as it also gets pretty damn big too.

Actually I am interested. That is very cool. Unfortunately I am not in the Bay anymore, but I have friends who may be interested. I will pass the news. Thanks for the information.

What are the differences between those two types of gas chromatography, and what is a plate culture analysis? Please pardon my ignorance...
Do you know what these tests tend to cost, roughly?





I had thought it would be a great experiment to run some very potent strains, like my Malawi haze, and use a very high thc bud, that is not so stony, like NL as a control, and try to isolate which unique cannabinoids are present in the haze or Malawi, which cannot be found in the control. Anyway, it would probably require a huge sample of tests and be prohibitively expensive.