Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[joshuahazen]

Josh


Im thankful you ,can share your first hand experience with us .Im also sad that the taste of yesteryear is not prevelant today .



1luvbigherb

Hi Bigherb,

The taste is still there in my hazes.

And it is definitely prevalent.

It's just a little bit watered down.


My Hybrids taste like the Haze I remember, and they have the same effect.
Just not as strong as the original cut.


Some perspective on what I am talking about:

I went to Amsterdam for the first time like around 6 years ago and I was looking very forward to trying the haze there, because at that time it had been several years since I had smoked any of my own, I smoked many different kinds of haze while in Amsterdam, but the 2 varieties that stuck out in my mind were Silver Haze and Super Silver Haze, they were the strongest things I could find in Amsterdam, and the closest to my original nl5haze cut.

Even though these were the strongest and best hazes I could find by my own taste, I would not have known they were haze by taste alone. I would have needed the label to know.

I smoked a bunch of other stuff, that was supposed to be haze, and it just wasn't in my opinion, most of it wasn't even stony, But the SSH? That stuff at least was the bomb, and though it did not deliver the taste, the effect while very different from my hazes, was still absolutely mind ripping.

My strains are not only much more potent then anything I tried in Amsterdam, but they taste like the only haze I know and remember, which I am told by folks on here including Nevil, had to have been NL5Haze from the Seedbank.

NL5Haze is the only strain the Seedbank ever posted a warning on, and that's the only reason I bought it in the first place.

 

[CheeseHunter]

Hi Bigherb,

The taste is still there in my hazes.

And it is definitely prevalent.

It's just a little bit watered down.


My Hybrids taste like the Haze I remember, and they have the same effect.
Just not as strong as the original cut.


Some perspective on what I am talking about:

I went to Amsterdam for the first time like around 6 years ago and I was looking very forward to trying the haze there, because at that time it had been several years since I had smoked any of my own, I smoked many different kinds of haze while in Amsterdam, but the 2 varieties that stuck out in my mind were Silver Haze and Super Silver Haze, they were the strongest things I could find in Amsterdam, and the closest to my original nl5haze cut.

Even though these were the strongest and best hazes I could find by my own taste, I would not have known they were haze by taste alone. I would have needed the label to know.

I smoked a bunch of other stuff, that was supposed to be haze, and it just wasn't in my opinion, most of it wasn't even stony, But the SSH? That stuff at least was the bomb, and though it did not deliver the taste, the effect while very different from my hazes, was still absolutely mind ripping.

My strains are not only much more potent then anything I tried in Amsterdam, but they taste like the only haze I know and remember, which I am told by folks on here including Nevil, had to have been NL5Haze from the Seedbank.

NL5Haze is the only strain the Seedbank ever posted a warning on, and that's the only reason I bought it in the first place.

So the question is:
Is there any strain available today which rivals the old NL5Haze or are there still pheno's floating around in the NL5haze which shanti offers today?
After hearing your description that is a strain which i have to get!!

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I agree with You JH

I did not find any acid trip hazes in all the haze and sativas I ran this winter. Several of them were not top shelf in my opinion. Some were tip top shelf on flavor and appearance, and very high quality highs. But nothing made me lose it.

It s been over 20 years since I had a full on, long lasting acid like trip on a sativa. I remember that trip clearly. I stood outside a packing shed with a buddy and he whipped out a fat joint of sweet and tart humboldt sativa.

I had to drive a half hour later, an I was scared shitless for a bit. My windshield was like a movie screen. I was checking my gauges constantly, as it seemed like I was going only 5 miles an hour. I was doing 50 through the country. Watching the lines, gauges, mirrors, and watching for cops. That 12 mile drive seemed to take hours.

That same buddy now lives in Honeydew Humboldt. He sends me special clones from time to time. Now he runs alot of Headband, Sour diesel, and GDP. I still to this day wonder what the fuck that sativa was we smoked that day. I guarantee it would have satisfied everyone in here.

 

[joshuahazen]

So the question is:
Is there any strain available today which rivals the old NL5Haze or are there still pheno's floating around in the NL5haze which shanti offers today?
After hearing your description that is a strain which i have to get!!

Well I have been researching MNS Haze strains for the last year or so, because that is what I am gonna get sometime soon.

I have not bought strains for over 15 years, but when I do it will be MNS Nevil's Haze, La Nina,on the top of my list, and also maybe mango Haze and Critical Haze.

Nevil said he tried a mango pheno that reminded him very much of his favorite NL5 Haze cut, I think it was Hempy's mango if I'm not mistaken.

L33t grew this pheno of Nevil's Haze, that looked so much like my original NL5haze cut, more so then even my own hybrids.
MNS Neville's Haze

MNS Neville's Haze Macro

Source: http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12568

Also L33t's La Nina, picutured below looks very similar to my original NL5haze cut.

MNS La Nina

Source: http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/la-ni%F1/547-la-nina-flower-shots.html

Thanks L33t.

That last picture the dried La Nina, looks so much like my old Seedbank NL5haze bud, it makes my mouth water.

I have heard from a lot of people that skunk1 has a tendency to dominate haze in terms of flavor and effect, so that many classic haze traits, can become very rare and even lost in Skunk1XHaze Crosses.

Nevil's Haze and LaNina both don't have skunk1 in them.

Can't wait to get my hands on them.


I have found in my own crosses, that high quality strains that cross well with haze are few and far between, and good strains that cross well and allow classic haze to shine through strongly are even rarer.

 

[joshuahazen]

Hi Hempy,

Thanks for clarifying.

Sounds like good advice on the hazes.

I would like to add that the different SSH phenos I tried were all from coffeeshops in Amsterdam, and someone on here told me that even though they are probably really SSH, the coffeshop phenos are selected for high yield, fast budding, and bag appeal, so they may not be the best, haziest representations of the line. Also they were greenhouse phenos, which I have heard are not nearly as hazy as the MNS lines of SSH.


Anyway, what do you see as the main differences between SSH and Mango Haze? I have seen some pics lately of the SSH that have really been awe inspiring.

 

[biteme]

do peeps really like those trippy highs? a few years back some vietnamese strains were around that left folks with a long lasting, uncomfortable buzz. i was not a fan either and my solution was to imbibe heavily in some alternate until vietnam was no longer running my show.

most of the 'psychedelic' strains were long flowering and low yielding so why bother if folks don't enjoy them? probably the very reason they are seen so seldom these days? peace-biteme

 

[lbezphil2005]

The macro shot with the picture coming thru the head of the trich should be framed somewhere or in a magazine article or used in some advertising, something! That is very very cool, excellent photography!

 

[bigherb]

Hi Bigherb,

The taste is still there in my hazes.

And it is definitely prevalent.

It's just a little bit watered down.


My Hybrids taste like the Haze I remember, and they have the same effect.
Just not as strong as the original cut

Sup bro

I have to say that whole post was a GREAT post i enjoyed it ,But from my reasearch/experience the Spice if yesteryear is Not common .


First im very curious as to what hazes you refer to an im not askin about your personal crosses ,im talkin about MNS or any other offerings .


In my 4 trips to the dam nothin was Close to NYC haze ,The haze taste or effect im familar with was not present at all .The cloest i came to was HASHPLANTHAZE which was a batch from S.holland .As you say the SSH an a few others such as cambodian haze stood out .There are soo many hazes out there but 98% a dissapointment .I undersatnd the fact that the CS cuts are a high yielding short flowering cut but how about someting to satify the haze/sativa heads . We could go on an on ive had the convo many times b4


There is a great post on someones experiences with the S.holland hazes /Cali /NYC .In short it was more less the Cali hazes were of the Green type the NYC were Brown yellow an the S.holland were similar to NYC but not as Good .

NH an skunk haze are the cloest ive tasted to NYC haze not from my area.the reason i bought Nevil haze was because of UNC L33t description an the similarites to NYC haze then after seing how it was one of the closest representations to the santa cruz haze

I did not find any acid trip hazes in all the haze and sativas I ran this winter. Several of them were not top shelf in my opinion. Some were tip top shelf on flavor and appearance, and very high quality highs. But nothing made me lose it.

It s been over 20 years since I had a full on, long lasting acid like trip on a sativa. I remember that trip clearly. I stood outside a packing shed with a buddy and he whipped out a fat joint of sweet and tart humboldt sativa

.

Sup brother

Honesty is always appreciated

Id appreciate if you shared your thoughts on which didnt meet your exspectations or werent top shelf .I know this is your experience or opinion an we dont like to post negative about anyones hard work ,but i was hopin maybe you enlighten us an beaware of what to exspect by sharing your experiences .

This is one reason i have only went for IMO what was the best offerings ,Im sure if i had more opportunity to run a selection id try other stuff .But my first haze grow was NH i had no hesitation .I want the best an anything less i can buy

very curious what was that sativa 20 yrs ago that gave you that trip .

Side note as good as my 2 NH phenos were the Sk/Hz had a trippy quality very different to whats around nowadays my older coz said he felt like he was spinning an couldnt smoke for sometime after ,He smokes chem all day



1luvbigherb

 

[coop]

I gotta agree with BigHerb, the east coast hazes have so much more flavor then what I can find out here in the mountains.

I've found that the flavor of the Durban I can get to be very similar in taste to the Jack we used to get back east. Its got that great uplifting sativa high, and I would speculate that those are the flavors that are predominant in the chem lines (if the chem does in fact originate from a nl5haze)

I personally have only found the acid type like plants in purer more tropical sativas. But the last herb I smoked that gave me the effect you guys are describing is some 100 day kali mist. That would make a few people freak out im sure.

 

[bigherb]

I gotta agree with BigHerb, the east coast hazes have so much more flavor then what I can find out here in the mountains.

I've found that the flavor of the Durban I can get to be very similar in taste to the Jack we used to get back east. Its got that great uplifting sativa high, and I would speculate that those are the flavors that are predominant in the chem lines (if the chem does in fact originate from a nl5haze)

I personally have only found the acid type like plants in purer more tropical sativas. But the last herb I smoked that gave me the effect you guys are describing is some 100 day kali mist. That would make a few people freak out im sure.

Sup bro

Id guess your speaking of cali ,Im curious as to which moutains you refer to ?

As for the durban its been reported true durban is very anise like ,IME JH has been more of a lime peppery type ,some traits which ive experienced in a Sk/hz pheno which was very reminescent of Jack herer we get in NYC .At the time i didnt realize it shares parents of the same blood


An old post of mine below ,The chem cutting was made in 90 ,the parents of Chem were around in the 80's it's not probable an highly unlikey .As we all know many strain share similiar terpenes

Quote:
The owner of a seed co. in Amsterdam in the '90s was the first person I knew of who was using the name Diesel and THAT plant was NL5HzCxSK1HzC. What people have been calling Diesel since then, I don't know anything about. If you want to know who that was, do your homework

.

quoted nev above

my point/opinion is according to wonkanobe and chemdog who has posted online i believe recently at the farm is from their story/timeline it doesnt seem possible that the chem line came from the haze parents nev refers too

as you suggest possibly ,somthin from the mid 80's catalouge but i doubt it .

if you have reads nevs response to me he refers to a specific cutting he worked and passed to shanti



1luvbigherb

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Trippy Weed

I remember smoking some psycoactive pine tasting sativa in the forest below Lake Tahoe in 75. It was a good trip overall. We were looking at everything. Watching ants carry stuff, looking at rocks, trees, animals. We both got a little paranoid for a few minutes only. We felt like we were being observed by unseen beings above us. It must have been a good Mexican Sativa. We only had a couple grams of it, and only smoked a pinner dube

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Cambodian Red

In 1976, I visited Dennis Peron in San Francisco, and bought some Cambodian Red from Him. I had a gay boss, that had a transvestite friend that knew Dennis. They arrainged for me to meet him and purchase several types of hash, colombian gold, cambodian, buddha sticks, and thai sticks Its my favorite Sativa of all time. Tasted like wonderful incense, better than any thai Ive ever had. My vision changed and everything took a rose colored hue. I think sound was gently echoing as well. I wasnt paranoid at all and had a great time. Dennis told me I was welcome to come back anytime. He pulled a Physicians notepad like thing out of his pocket. It had his Bigtop Enterprises logo and picture as letter head. He signed his name across it, tore it out like a perscription and handed it to me. He said hold this up to the mirror on the front door when ever you visit, and the guard will let you in.

I had a fucking blast! That was a grail, that Cambodian Red!

 

[joshuahazen]

Sup bro

...First im very curious as to what hazes you refer to an im not askin about your personal crosses ,im talkin about MNS or any other offerings ...

Actually, the haze I was referring to is the only haze I have experienced outside of several recent trips to amsterdam, and that is: Seedbank NL5Haze, and all the subsequent crosses I have made from her.

In amsterdam I have smoked everything I could find with the name haze in it. Some supposedly pure "Original haze", and other types of haze, they were all pretty forgettable midgrade and even lowgrade sativas. I would not have called them haze.

I tried Jack Herer, which struck me as the higher end of average for Amsterdam.

but over the last few years there were 3 hazes I tried that stood out in Amsterdam as memorable for me: Silver Haze was decent, Amnesia Haze was good, SSH was very good. While these strains were excellent, and the best I had smoked in amsterdam, they didn't have that taste which I associate with haze, except maybe for a hint.

Its got that great uplifting sativa high, and I would speculate that those are the flavors that are predominant in the chem lines (if the chem does in fact originate from a nl5haze)
.

The first time I ever smoked the Chem was in the mid 80s so it could not be from NL5Haze.

I have not tried the recent "Chem Dawg" but I have tried "Sour Diesal" and "NYC Diesal" which supposedly come from Chem Dawg right?

The Sour Diesal is supposed to be the shit right now around here, apparently there is a cut going around which is measuring 24 % thc,

I got some of it and I thought it was kind of weak. I had trouble catching a buzz off of it. But that is probably because I was acclimated to HHG.

It is nothing like the real Chem that I used to smoke back in the day.
That was top grade smoke. And it smelled like Chemicals, not sickly sweet like the sour diesal I tried

 

[1cat]

Back in the day I smoked some brick , & it was increadibly psycodelic.It hit me in waves , & made me tingly on the top of my head , & at my fingers & toes.It was unbearably strong.
I have spent a good number of days trying to figure out what its deal was.
I have never come across anything like it ever again.
For most of my life I thought it was laced with d.m.t , but now I no that d.m.t only lasts 20 minutes, this lasted hours.Nothing you could add would do this.It was just really good weed.
I wish I could properly explain how intense it was , it was nothing like anything i've ever smoked,diferent feeling.
Mabey it was a mallawi?

 

[coop]

I rememember chemo but the chem/dawgs are a Rez/ic hype. Not saying they are bad plants just a lot of mis confusion.

The diesels and chems are supposed to be similar lines.

Which cAme first is the real question but the true e.c.s.d sounds more like josh's descrip of his seedbank haze.


And lineage wise the Masssuper skunk x nl is very similar to nl5xhazec x skc. I was told the mss was/ is really jack/ssh.

Big herb i mean the rockies. The one thing that has struck me here is how similar all the ssh/jack and chems look/smell/taste. I would say the chems have the stoneyness of the ssh. Thejack is a bit more uplifting.


"At a Grateful Dead show at Deer Creek Amphitheatre, 'joebrand' (aka 'wonkanobe') and 'pbud' met 'chemdog' and sold him an ounce of very high quality pot for $500. joe and chemdog exchanged numbers and they later arranged for two ounces to be shipped to chemdog on the east coast. According to chemdog, one ounce was seedless and the other had 13 seeds.

In ’91, chemdog popped the first 4 seeds. From these seeds, one male was found and disposed of (chemdog was young, you can’t blame him). The 3 females were labeled ‘chemdawg’ (now ’91 chemdawg), ‘chemdawg a’ (now chemdawg’s sister), and ‘chemdawg b’. In '01, chemdog and his girlfriend attempted to germ 3 more seeds, labeled ‘c’, ‘d’, and ‘e’. the ‘e’ seed never germinated, ‘c’ turned out to be junk (according to chemdog), and chemdawg ‘d’ was the keeper. In '06, 'chemdog' and 'joebrand' reunited and joe was given 4 of the last 6 beans: Chemdawg phenos 1-4, '4' being the chosen keeper. Joe thought the '4' was the best representation of the original and thus dubbed it the 'reunion pheno'. Chemdog still has two seeds left in his stash.

Chemdawg Crosses:
• 'OG Kush' (the original cut) came from an s1 from in a bag of '91 Chemdawg in the Lake Tahoe area in 1996.
• 'Sour Diesel' aka ECSD came from an accidental cross of ('91 Chemdawg x Mass Super Skunk/NL)x DNL after the DNL hermed and seeded the room. The DNL's lineage is NL/Shiva x Hawaiian.
• Original Diesel' (also known as Diesel #1, Headband, Daywrecker Diesel, Underdawg) came from a cross of '91 Chemdawg x (Mass Super Skunk x Sensi's Northern Lights) done by a guy known as ‘weasel’.

• 'chemdog' and friends made several crosses that are held closely by a small group of friends and acquaintances. Among them are:

1. Super Snowdawg (Bubble Chem x [Super skunk x Oregon Sno])
2. Giesel (Chem D x Mass Super Skunk)
3. Bubble Chem (Chemdawg’s Sister x Sag's Bubbleberry)
4. Dawg Daze aka ChemHaze (Chem D x ’93 Sensi's NL#5/Haze)
5. Chemdawg D x Pbud (another old-school Colorado strain)


JJ-NYC has been working on a Chemdawg D-based seed line for several years now. He started by crossing Chemdawg D to Sensi's Afghani after thoroughly testing both Sensi's Afghani and Sensi's Hindu Kush to determine which was more stable and would be better for the initial cross. JJ then did a backcross, known as "Double Dawg." Several phenos of this circulate and several people still have beans. JJ's latest work to the line is a second backcross known as "Tres Dawg" which is just starting to get tested.
"

 

[joshuahazen]

I think Chemo is different,

Chem, or Chemical bud, is from Colorado originally in the early mid eighties and not even related to holland weed. It was one of the first big label indoor ops ever, after "The Company", for those of us old enough to remember the original Krypto.

 

[coop]

and for clarification, when i saw ecsd i mean the more 100 day plant, with the Lemon/Diesel smelling characteristics. Even the Chem91 which looks like a dead ringer has more of them chem family taste then the real ecsd. I've found most of the sour D being sold to be like the chem91, not true ecsd.

and what I find odd is how you then also have the Colorado Cough, a known NL5 x haze cut from what 88 or 89? But you don't hear to much about it anymore. I've found a clone and few places that have it and grow it out for 13-14 weeks. I just can't believe they only sell it for $10 a gram.

and here's a pic of 12 week ecsd. Could prob stretch a few more weeks even still, but i miss these buds and the ocean.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Rez chems

I have some of those expensive seeds. I grew some last year.

I prefer My cuts of Headband , OG Kush, and Sour Diesel from Honeydew California.
Im smoking Sour Diesel from up there right now. Its good, but probably not done fully organic. Its not nearly as good as I grow from the same exact clone. I sent some buds up to humboldt and they admited mine was better.

I sometimes make a product from Headband, Sour diesel and GDP. It was named "the Spine Tingler" by a Crab boat captain up north. He is a real Character. It can actually drop you for 15-30 seconds, where you dont even know what you are let alone who you are. All that time your head is rushing like NOS, and sounds reverberating. It feels like a mind orgasam

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Deerpark Ampitheater

I spent many summers at a beach house in Rio Del Mar. (Santa Cruz) Its just down the frontage road from Deerpark Amphitheater. I think that was a left turn a block and a half from the house. But, if you took a right turn and went a mile or so south I guess, and drove up on the small hillside neighborhood on the north side of the hiway, You would have beenin the Haze Brothers and Sams neighborhood. Thats if the stories are true that weve heard.

 

[bigherb]

Actually, the haze I was referring to is the only haze I have experienced outside of several recent trips to amsterdam, and that is: Seedbank NL5Haze, and all the subsequent crosses I have made from her.

In amsterdam I have smoked everything I could find with the name haze in it. Some supposedly pure "Original haze", and other types of haze, they were all pretty forgettable midgrade and even lowgrade sativas. I would not have called them haze

Thats exactly what i thought

which proves my point again on th epsice of yesteryear not bein prevelant or common in todays haze offerings

I Fully agree ,soo many hazes but none are haze as i know it ,I tried a Orginal haze hybrid at Katsu an as you said not memorable

rememember chemo but the chem/dawgs are a Rez/ic hype. Not saying they are bad plants just a lot of mis confusion

.

rez hyped them but got nothin to do with the creation ,his starins are hybrids an not a reflection of the true .

chemo is not related

The diesels and chems are supposed to be similar lines

Diesel is chem ,the named was changed when the cat brought his clone to NYC .The original chemdawg is chem 91 aka as Diesel .The chem if i recall correct was originally called Colorado green bud an is reported to be an afghani from Bc crossed to a highand mexican

Ive had experience with Chemdawg an sour diesel an Sd is not on the same level ,the diesel hybrids are nice an there has been aflow of cali headband an outdoor or Gh grown Sd .But they Dont compare to our NYC haze IMO

BTW ECSD is just REZ verison iif i recall cause he aquired a true Sd cut fom NYC

Im not that interested in the story but it became widespread big news awhile back .Imo for Nevil to make th eclaim he made he should have gave us more supporting info ,instead he said do your homework an It seems we all agree ,its not possible .



1luvbigherb