Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

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The first post here explains a lot.

Im aware that the plants that won the cup as jack herer are same pedigree as SSH, that does not mean that's what the seed release of JH was.

If doubling up on C is negative how do you explain SSH?

One of the contenders for the Grail is oax. x SSH x NH, so that would be a triple stack of C.

IBF
 
here is what nevil said..I don't know how to do the quote thing, lol

The price for back crossing the 5HzA back to Haze C was that the hybrid was not as consistent as the 5Hz. Maybe one in 20 females would be better than the 5Hz. Further doubling up on HzA or C will reduce the return even further. I know this from experience.

The cat piss smell associated with Haze is the result of inbreeding to the Haze. Inbreeding to siblings or half siblings, is less damaging than inbreeding to the same Haze plant.
NL5 was somewhat neutral in smell and when crossed with the Haze, it expressed the various genotypes behind the Haze very well. I have grown large numbers of NL5HzA and NL5HzC plants from seed. Considering that the HzA male was dead, I could only use it's daughters to put back to HzC.
 
he says further doubling up, after the first time, will reduce the return futher. but i think he may be talking about the 1 in 20 being better than 5C. if c99 came from an f2 jack herer, or even a mystery jack herer cross, and then was inbred/backcrossed to get it where it is, that shows that it is possible to get something really interesting still, it might only be 1 in 40 plants that will be better than 5C, but that may be good enough for me.
one thing i have been wondering is how soon things will go downhill when inbreeding haze. will just one or two generations be enough to really screw things up or would it take something like 5 generations before all you have is catpiss?
i dont think i mind catpiss though, as a weed smell that is. ;)
 
Hey zigzag,

Not a huge quote fan anyways.

But what Nevil said there was directed at going straight back to the haze C without an outcross first and then selection. If you look at his first post he also says that great plants can be pulled from direct backcrossing but are less likely. This is why SSH, NH, MH and the AC male defy the traditional outlook on direct backcrossing of haze. Outcross, select, backcross.

IBF
 
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the thing with the catpiss is that they don't seem to be the most powerful phenos to be found, and with so many flavorful strains out today its just not that interesting. I know I prefer the strains that are a bit hashy, peppery, and piney. I grew up in the import days so I can still remember some of the tastes and smells of the columbian we used to get...but they are fading. I've been searching for years for strains that remind me of those days. Thats why we are all here in this thread I think.
 
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Hi all.....Just wanted to let you know before this goes much further, SSH is not a candidate for the Grail. If you happen to see crosses with SSH in it , it is because I made that cross last year when I found a SSH pheno that I knew would go well with my strains.

I will have a update and some pics later, on what is happening with the grail.
 
Kangativa said:
Hi all.....Just wanted to let you know before this goes much further, SSH is not a candidate for the Grail. If you happen to see crosses with SSH in it , it is because I made that cross last year when I found a SSH pheno that I knew would go well with my strains.

I will have a update and some pics later, on what is happening with the grail.
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Thanks Kanga. People, Kanga is correct.

Ive missed You Guys. Im laying low at moment for reasons beyond my control.

I do have some of the candidate crosses from Neville directly. I want You to know that I Love Neville as My Brother. He is an awesome person, and friend. We are the same age and connect. What Neville has stated on this thread is true and accurate to my best Knowlege. Thats an awful disclaimer. I absolutely Love Neville as a Brother

Be well My Friends. I care about You. Each and every one, even those who have said things untrue.

Take care my friends.
DP
 
Hey kanga,

No words in your mouth I hope. Just trying to say all is OK with a backcross none the less.

Fantastic season down there, ripe for the taking I'd say...

I don't wish to be in disapproval, yet I'm concerned about finishing times beyond NH.

IBF

Unconfrentational lol. Im curious of finishing times compared to o. Haze IBL.
 
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catpiss

jack hairy said:
he says further doubling up, after the first time, will reduce the return futher. but i think he may be talking about the 1 in 20 being better than 5C. if c99 came from an f2 jack herer, or even a mystery jack herer cross, and then was inbred/backcrossed to get it where it is, that shows that it is possible to get something really interesting still, it might only be 1 in 40 plants that will be better than 5C, but that may be good enough for me.
one thing i have been wondering is how soon things will go downhill when inbreeding haze. will just one or two generations be enough to really screw things up or would it take something like 5 generations before all you have is catpiss?
i dont think i mind catpiss though, as a weed smell that is. ;)
Click to expand...

sorry to but in , i grew all the smells and catpiss reminds me of weed from 80 s i wouldnt mind my house stinking of catpiss as my nosey neighbours will think ive cats and i wont raise any suspicion ,thanks t
 
Dr. Purpur said:
Thanks Kanga. People, Kanga is correct.

Ive missed You Guys. Im laying low at moment for reasons beyond my control.

I do have some of the candidate crosses from Neville directly. I want You to know that I Love Neville as My Brother. He is an awesome person, and friend. We are the same age and connect. What Neville has stated on this thread is true and accurate to my best Knowlege. Thats an awful disclaimer. I absolutely Love Neville as a Brother

Be well My Friends. I care about You. Each and every one, even those who have said things untrue.

Take care my friends.
DP
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Dr. Purp, be careful, my friend, keep safe and we really look forward to your fulltime return - I so miss those freaking cooking updates, bro!! (also the mango haze updates weren't too bad, either, lol!) Keep the faith!
 
jack hairy said:
i think he may be talking about the 1 in 20 being better than 5C. if c99 came from an f2 jack herer, or even a mystery jack herer cross, and then was inbred/backcrossed to get it where it is, that shows that it is possible to get something really interesting still, it might only be 1 in 40 plants that will be better than 5C, but that may be good enough for me.
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail on the head bro.

The way I interpret it is that Nev was saying a good portion of the NL5 x Haze progency resulted in something special.

As soon as Haze gets inbred (by putting Haze C back to itself after outcrossing), the improvement on the original NL5 x Haze will be 1 in 20.

That's not to say the remaining 19 out of 20 are inferior to the original NL5 x Haze, just not an improvement...

And your example of cindy, jack herer etc. supports this - maybe the phenos selected that ended up creating these strains were those special 1 in 20 improvement phenos.

I wish Nev was still around!!!!
 
Dr. Purpur said:
Thanks Kanga. People, Kanga is correct.

Ive missed You Guys. Im laying low at moment for reasons beyond my control.

I do have some of the candidate crosses from Neville directly. I want You to know that I Love Neville as My Brother. He is an awesome person, and friend. We are the same age and connect. What Neville has stated on this thread is true and accurate to my best Knowlege. Thats an awful disclaimer. I absolutely Love Neville as a Brother

Be well My Friends. I care about You. Each and every one, even those who have said things untrue.

Take care my friends.
DP
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I hope you are safe bro and I'm sorry to hear you have had dramas.

Hope to see you back in full effect soon!

Bless
 
Piff Rhys Jones said:
I think you hit the nail on the head bro.

The way I interpret it is that Nev was saying a good portion of the NL5 x Haze progency resulted in something special.

As soon as Haze gets inbred (by putting Haze C back to itself after outcrossing), the improvement on the original NL5 x Haze will be 1 in 20.

That's not to say the remaining 19 out of 20 are inferior to the original NL5 x Haze, just not an improvement...

And your example of cindy, jack herer etc. supports this - maybe the phenos selected that ended up creating these strains were those special 1 in 20 improvement phenos.

I wish Nev was still around!!!!
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Pretty sure if the other 19 were as good as the mother 5c we'd see those crosses available from Shanti.
 
itsbenfun said:
Hey kanga,

No words in your mouth I hope. Just trying to say all is OK with a backcross none the less.

Fantastic season down there, ripe for the taking I'd say...

I don't wish to be in disapproval, yet I'm concerned about finishing times beyond NH.

IBF

Unconfrentational lol. Im curious of finishing times compared to o. Haze IBL.
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Ben We do want Your opinion. Im sorry if I came off in a way that could be interperated as saying You are wrong. I do care what You think. You are important to this thread, and this planet. I apoligise to You directly right here , right now. I did not read Your post thoroughly. I do hold You in high regard.
DP
 
Piff Rhys Jones said:
Not saying that doubling up haze c is the way to find the grail - but just trying to understand Nevil's initial comments re: inbreeding haze...
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Ask Him My Brother. He is around.

Nevil is here, and He has Heart. He is a very real person, and His breeding techniques, as an overseer to steer those in the right direction are true. He absolutey knows what He is doing. You will prosper from His struggles, and His sweat. I can promise You that. He is the real thing and He is Our Friend

Lets all watch together as History is made.
Be well DP
 
i thought id share a few more pics.
this one made it to 99 days.
ive one more little one that will get it at 105.

i think this is pretty interesting. i didnt expect color, just flavor,strength, and high.
josh had asked me about temps these were in, and they were a bit cold. ill throw a meter in there tomorrow and see exactly, but id guess lower 60s upper 50s even.
however...
even the bigger one is showing some color in its leaves and tips of some calyxes, and it doesnt get colder than 70 and its 85 with the lights on.

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here is the same cut, NH4, in hydro at 60 days.
if someone were to flush it ahead of time, it looks like it could be ready now.
hopefully it can hang in there for another month to fully ripen though...

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Nice!

Nice pics, jack! I bet thats gonna smoke nice, bro! Great work, my friend, very nice job - patience, patience!! Thats my "break point", lol - if it looks done my mouth starts to water!!
 
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