Confused about who really has which skunk #1

Broseidon said:
Sorry if I add fuel to the wrong fire but I always wondered:

I heard the story of Sam being a DEA guy several times and I am inclined to believe it because the few facts I could find seem to support this.

But if Sam is a known (ex-?) DEA informant and landed so many people in jail, how come he is still in the heart of the Canna community and posting over at ICmag?

Hell I had a personal exchange with him once or twice to siphon off some knowledge and that really made me wonder "if this guy is know to have worked with the DEA closely and landed many growers in jail, how come we all accept him as a member of this community still and even look up to him?".

Really confusing to me.
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Well, in my conversations with Dave Watson on IC (SamTheSkunk) he is so full of shit it is not even funny. I was warned off of IC when I tried to rat him out over there. My posts were removed by other mods on IC before Dave or the owner there could read them, and they told me that if he or the owner saw them I would be banned from IC. He is a friend of the owner there from way back, and for whatever reason they support him there. The mods also told me that pretty much everyone there is well aware of Dave's narc background as an operative for the DEA. I lived in the Monterey Bay area from 1966 until 1986, and neither I nor anyone I know or knew there knew Dave Watson or the Haze Bros. I was deep on the weed scene there and then. Nothing Dave says seems to have any validity, and much of what he says is just plain wrong about what happened in that area between 1969 and 1985. Sadly Leafly continues to publish the myths of David Watson and perpetuates the lies. But enough about el narco.

Anyway, skunk weed was a local grown product in the late 1970s from all around central California. I smoked a lot of it, but I do not have any seeds from it as it was usually seedless. My understanding then was that it was the result of a cross of early indica weed from Afghanistan and local sativa weed from Colombia and Mexico. That area was saturated with weed from SE Asia until the end of the VietNam War. I was also saturated with weed from Mexico until about 1976 when Paraquat spraying became more common in Mexico, and the weed imports shifted to being mainly from Colombia and the local grow scene started in earnest. There was also later generation Thai sticks and a lot of hashish from Lebanon around there in the late 1970s. The locally grown weed was getting really really good around 1978, and prices were cheap. $60-80 an oz. Then High Times started publishing prices for weed, and people started showing up with suitcases full of cash from back east to buy up all our cheap local grow, and the prices went up and up ad up for what would later be dubbed, 'lawyer weed'. About that time weed started coming in from Africa as well. Early Haze was certainly never $200 an oz as claimed by Dave (and later cited by Clarke), and certainly not in 1972. I doubt that Haze was even around that early. The local grow scene did not really take off until after the Paraquat ordeal under Emperor Nixon.

Who came up with the original Central California Skunk? I doubt that the originator is even known at this point. It may have been Sandy, I actually heard of him. My bet would be that there were several simultaneous strains. There were a lot of early growers there in Monterey and Santa Cruz Counties, including myself. I never did any second gen cross breeding though. I had landrace seeds galore in my freezer that I had saved from many pounds of a wide variety of imported weed. So I only grew original sourced landraces every year, and I pilled the males to flower out the girls. Few up until the mid 1970s knew how to grow sinsemillia, let alone cross breed strains.
 
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Thanks Big Sur.
It's really cool to have a wise head from the early years with local knowledge here. There is just so much bullshit out there pushed by people with an adgenda. I really like reading what you put up and hope you stick around.
Respect brother
 
While i don't believe (or really care or know what to believe) all the conclusions about sam, all the bits about sandy and the rest of California at the time, seems to make good sense. :) However, we won't really ever KNOW. I don't care, because personally, I liked import sativas better than the "improvement" of skunk.

i deal Sam the skunk pretty often. He knows the plants and genetics better than the vast majority of people over there. I don't agree with him about many aspects, but he's not just spouting and not thinking stuff out. I will say that when i've posted about not knowing who is telling the truth about "the busts" , he went to the trouble to try to convince me (a nobody) messaging me relentlessly for a short while. But like I told him, there is NO way to sort it out at this point. So he will always be viewed as someone to be slightly wary of.

BTW, he's going to be a part of Chimera's new seed bank venture if I understand correctly.
 
Yeah I wonder how long that thing will last or have a reputation.

People over at IC are hyping it as a collaboration of the hall of fame of breeders lmao.
 
They are perfect for one another LOL. They are funny guys, high on their own hype :p .... but if you can wade through all that there is some good stuff in there. I'm working with plants right now that are hybrids DJ shorts BB and a Guerrero line from Chim. A generation or two removed from the F1s. I'm a very happy camper with these hybrids :D
 
Mr PMB I couldn't have said it better "high on their own hype" nailed it. Neither would know the definition of humble.
@corky well done brother megalomaniacs all need a good slap down from time to time.
 
professorjj said:
Thanks Big Sur.
It's really cool to have a wise head from the early years with local knowledge here. There is just so much bullshit out there pushed by people with an adgenda. I really like reading what you put up and hope you stick around.
Respect brother
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Yes, there is BS, and then more BS piled onto the BS. I was there in central California from 1966 though 1986 when I moved to Sandy Eggo. I have no agenda, here or anywhere else. I do not sell my seeds (I have a large collection of early landrace seeds from the 1970/1980s), nor am I affiliated with any seed company. While there was also a lot of tall tales and a lot of BS even back then and there, I can assure you that my experience in Central California during that time was not the same that Sam/Dave/El Narco talks about. His 'reality' contradicts way too much of what I saw there. My read on him is that he is a compulsive liar and flipped by the DEA to get out of the Sacred Seeds bust, and then they injected him into the Holland marijuana scene. He still seems to be living the lies he told in Holland, for whatever reason. Fame? Fortune? Ego? He has a massive ego.

As an aside, I know people in Europe that have been burned on deals with Sam/Dave/Whatever his current name was or is. Mostly on strains that that they sourced or sold to him. They also tell me that he is ramping up business in Jamaica now? He (as Sam) told me once that he has over a ton of MJ seeds in his personal collection. That is a lot of seeds, and storing and moving that many is a logistical issue. If they are going to last more than a few years, they are going to have to be kept dry and frozen. Where/how he has them stored is another issue. Maybe in Switzerland? I do not know. I looked into sending and storing and then sourcing my own seeds in and through an eastern block European country a while ago, but I gave up on that idea. I would have to have international bank accounts, I would have to trust people in Europe that I do not know, and it got weird really fast. No thanks.

I also was going to start a commercial rec grow operation here in Oregon now that it is legal. I live in a county that approved rec weed. I also have a water right and the right zoning and acreage (a pure fluke, I bought this place 5 years ago), but... the costs are just too steep and all the requirements, licenses, and permits are just too many. I want to do a one man micro grow in 625 sq ft. indoors, but to make it worth while, you have to go big or not at all. I would have to grow one acre outdoors in a greenhouse because I could not get a power permit to run 1/4 acre under lights here. Legal weed is not all that is is cracked up to be. I went into a new Cannabis store here the other day for a look-see. It is all clean, brightly lighted and sterilized. All you can do is look and smell the buds in jars on countertops. Do not touch! At their prices, I grew over $8,000 worth of weed here this year for my personal use. That was from only 4 plants! I could grow a lot more if I wanted to pay the high lighting bill though the winter months here, which I did last year.

In retrospect, black market weed scene was way cooler in the 70s than the legal weed scene is here now. It was a complete counter culture then. Now its just a ho-hum commodity. Buying weed is like buying milk. And like some 22 year old is going to tell me the difference between Haze and GDP? Phut... I am just an old fart to these kids. They think I am clueless. Little do they know. In the old days I wold put out feelers for buying a pound of weed, and someone who knew someone would get in touch, and a deal would be set up. Half of them would fall through, but some... one such deal was for a half pound of Guerrero loose tops. Man, that stuff absolutely kicked ass weed. I did not save seeds then in the early 1970s, but I wish I had those seeds now. I do not care what Sam/Dave says about Haze either, that Guerrero would kick Haze's ass. According to him, Haze was better than anything and everything else available there and then, combined. That was simply not true then, nor is it now.
 
Broseidon said:
Yeah I wonder how long that thing will last or have a reputation.

People over at IC are hyping it as a collaboration of the hall of fame of breeders lmao.
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IC seems to have been culled into a collective of suck-ups to Sammy-David Jr. (my new name for Dave Watson). Anyone else is banned from that site.

On online forums you can be anyone that you want to be....
 
Not only that. There seems other stuff to be going on over there.

Just found out that benevolent Ace seeds, beloved by all, seems to be ripping off small collective members and stealing genetics. Just like in the good old days.

I wonder if the guys from Ace are talking with Watson, something along the lines of:
"Yo Dave, we got this Nepalese that is a definite grail plant in one of our collective members gardens but the dude wants a say in how we use it and bring it to market. What do?"

"Guys... You are a PAYING SPONSOR, you have your own sub section, you have banners .... THINK! Just jack that shit and if he dares to speak up, use me and the mods. Dude can't say shit then."
 
Seems to be a bit of a theme with these new age breeders. I recall when a certain Mr R won the trust of others by claiming to be medically motivated and went on to steal genetics from many only to use them in his own breeding program. It really shows what guys like this are made from. Unfortunately the public forget too quickly and reward these POS and buy their gear...
 
For me it was the same story with both Karma and Ace.

Bought into both based on their stellar reputation from the past few years. Had nothing else to go by really.


Now Karma has his Karma Squad bs and looks like he is becoming the next DNA and Ace seems to be "one of those" who steal and don't give credit.

Mr. Nice hasn't disappointed yet but I have to say I wouldn't hold them in as lofty regards if I hadn't discovered the auctions.
At that price I really can't say enough good about Mr. Nice but if I had paid full price I wouldn't be nearly as excited and maybe be one of the guys complaining that they were better back in the day or something (according to reports/opinions).

Peakseeds really is the only one I am completely content with so far...

Maybe the future really is in the small, unknown breeders without any marketing etc. ..
 
Yep, I haven't judged anything yet, but I have formed an opinion based on my intense research before purchasing and am supplementing this opinion with first hand experience (limited as it is) which in turns leads me to adjust my opinion as I go along.

And I can't say that after learning this or that about Karma and Ace that I haven't felt some sort of buyer's remorse at one point or another.

But this is just the current situation. I will grow the stuff either way as I have no intention of sinking any more money into genetics for the time being (about 600 bucks worth of MRN gear and another 500 of Ace, Karma and Peak gear should be more than enough. Also add the 20 PurePowerPlant beans I have from almost 20 years ago, I really shouldn't require any more seeds any time soon).
 
Big Sur said:
IC seems to have been culled into a collective of suck-ups to Sammy-David Jr. (my new name for Dave Watson). Anyone else is banned from that site.

On online forums you can be anyone that you want to be....
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Well after some doing I finally got permabanned from ICMAG.

Reason: I reported a post made by Skunkman where he flames me and one of my previously banned contacts. It was edited and it shows **edited /tou++ and
the SuperMod who edited that post even PM'd me to tell me that as a result of me reporting Skunkman that I better stay low and under the radar. Sure enough the
next day I'm permabanned. Skunkman must be spraying fake skunk odor seeing that his post got edited. I got it all saved in jpeg format.

BTW: It was the 2nd time I reported Skunkman. The 1st time I reported Skunkman to Gypsy for another TOU violation this summer and have saved Gypsy's PM.
It's clear that from seeing it that Gypsy didn't know 100% of what Skunkman was doing.

As for contact that is also permabanned. He got permabanned because he was exposing Chimera (Skunkman's new seed venture partner) with cannabis patent references. LOLZ

There was even pics and videos online with Chimera with patent references and now they've all been taken down. Sadly for Chimera I saved most of them.

BTW: Who here thinks its cool to take a picture of their granddaughter beside a huge cannabis plant in an illegal grow op and post them on the Internet.
Skunkman seems to and there's pic of him doing so on ICMAG if you know where to look.
 
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PlantManBee said:
While i don't believe (or really care or know what to believe) all the conclusions about sam, all the bits about sandy and the rest of California at the time, seems to make good sense. :) However, we won't really ever KNOW. I don't care, because personally, I liked import sativas better than the "improvement" of skunk.

i deal Sam the skunk pretty often. He knows the plants and genetics better than the vast majority of people over there. I don't agree with him about many aspects, but he's not just spouting and not thinking stuff out. I will say that when i've posted about not knowing who is telling the truth about "the busts" , he went to the trouble to try to convince me (a nobody) messaging me relentlessly for a short while. But like I told him, there is NO way to sort it out at this point. So he will always be viewed as someone to be slightly wary of.

BTW, he's going to be a part of Chimera's new seed bank venture if I understand correctly.
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Yeah, they are both working for Pharmaceutical companies that are working for Bayer Monsanto they already have at least one patent on a GMO marijuana variety. I love how they both talk like nobody is working on GMO cannabis while they themselves are.

Just hopefully they don't make anything too amazing for Monsanto Chimera did mention their was a GMO years ago that would never get botrytis. Could be good for a commercial grower if they can make a GMO to prevent seeds but still would be great for hash production though I think people will still want higher quality hash or import some will go cheap though as Budweiser is the #1 selling beer in America and it tastes like shit IMO.

I also seen a post from Sam about locking down on cannabinoids buy making an S1 of a pheno with like 1% thcv then selecting all the way to S4-S5 and claiming you can get it to about 10%thcv.

Certainly looks like they are going to dominate the medical marijuana industry for sure if it becomes a Schedule 2 drug because we won't have dispensaries just FDA certified drugs. Just god knows what Trump will do about recreational would be great if he just legalized across the board certainly would be easier to legalize it just like alcohol states would have to still legalize though like how we still have dry counties in the south.
 
Pretty cool isnt it. I was keeping an eye on this after the announcement of the OGnome project on the adam dunn show. In true stoner style it went no where and no findings have been revealed AFAIK. I love how it shows you just how it is. No arguing with the genetics...
 
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