80s Nl5xHz

[CannaFish]

I know it's late where I'm at, but I just caught this post from 2018...

WTF?

"La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all."

I've been around for a long time on this board and the Haze used in La Nina was always some kind of weird mystery. It was never stated as fact that it was either HazeA or HazeC and there was a lot of conjecture with no proof of who the mother is. Was kind of rumored that it was Mullumbibby Madness from the early days but there was never any proof.

Haze seems to have a very specific context so it would be strange for Shanti to say that the Haze in La Nina is MM here. I had no idea another OG Haze existed. Can anyone provide more information on this?

SB said a long time ago that the “haze” in La Niña is actually mullumbimby madness. As musashi said earlier there’s lots of different hazes from lots of different people.

 

[CannaFish]

Hi All

listen since i am alot on the road it is hard to get to all threads and pm etc...as well as run a business ,do some investigation and continue to produce seed sometimes patience is the best answer.

Some members follow our basic constitution to the T and others are still a little unaware of our few rules. Let me remind all...we do not publicize private messages in a public forum under any circumstances...so please do not do it...wait for a response it will come to the public as all MNS information is not secret.
La nina was previously El nino and came out the same year as SSH...I did not have use of Nevils Haze C pollen for this...so it was one only plant out of the family of Haze C. The seed I used was from original seed grown in northern NSW in the late 70s and 80s of which some refferred to it as Mullumbimby Madness...what I considered a Thai Columbian inbreed line from a fellow grower who had had it growing and collected the seed himself from those places in his travels. There were other strains similar viewed as Mullum Madness, so it depends who you spoke to at the time.Nevertheless it was never written up to be Haze C male.

Hope that curbs things and we can all calm down and get on with the job. Nevil and I do our best to answer all, but we do have alot of pm and work too...not to mention family, so be patient and we will get to everyone all in good time.

Thanks for understanding and stay safe...all the best Sb

Hi All

well been a little relaxed designing a hectare of gardens for the Gili Trawangan project which will be called Eco Villas Trawangan...a green experience.So sorry for the limited attention to the MNS family but appreciate all your understanding for taking time out over the Xmas New Year period with the family...

As for this thread, most of you know the versions about the Haze myths. There are always a few sides to coin, as you all know. I do not feel to keep regurgitating the side we believe is the truth, but it is the truth for Nev, myself and Howard.

I think most of your versions lead you to the MNS forum for the right reasons and in the end we must all work out a view on life based on the characters involved and their integrity.

My personal opinion is since so many growers/breeders/travelers existed in the 60s and 70s and alot of small pockets grew into legends like Mullumbimby in Australia, Mendocino in the USA, and so on...access to good Colombian strains, Panama strains, Indian, Thai, Afghani, Lebanon etc...versions of Haze were being made without the labels of Haze till they came into the hands of those who made it their passion to find and refine Sativa dominant hybrids. I have smoked plants in Australia that have been grown from landraces and inbreed for decades that are so close to Nev`s Haze A, Haze C and pure female Haze characteristics that it does not surprise me that confusion exists.So what ever you make of the facts as you know them , it is possible someone else was working on similar lines in opposite corners of the world at the same time...We all rely on stories from those who were there, but before them things were going on too, and from who did they come from....so as you see we are all just the hands of mother nature in the end and egos and stories are just that. Truth is in the genetics, the closer you get to a good start is by trusting other growers over time, and your own experiences.

Keep up the good beginning to the 2009 year and I wish you all the best Sb
i

 

[CannaFish]

Hi All

well I am also originally from down under and cut my teeth with Mullumbimby madness...one version from my crew in Main Arm...we worked on it for years spending the joy from late 70s to mid 80s...so I am familiar with and do have seed stock of it. I would compare it to Nevils Haze if I was asked to do so...

Any photos? Also we do not get it going hermie ever so that must have been unselected seed or selfing problems. However there are a few version of the same name. I believe Wally Duck has some good versions still and is a good bloke...

All the best Sb

Hi All

well back from Spannabis and was able to read a fair bit of certain threads i have not had time to do previously.

I must say reading some of the theories and reasoning behind a lot of your opinions , well they sound kind of unusual.

Mullum Madness was at least a 3/4 haze in the form we had it and the closest plant i felt represented a pure Haze, if you consider this as me lying outright Old Spice it would be great to know why, as in the mid 80s when it was been grown in Main Arm and around those areas its scent was already apparent before you even saw the plant...but always happy to see photos or hear info as to why you believe as you do? Funny also to hear you think i am flowering up description without saying anything...kind of unusual so many companies blindly copied my descriptions word for word or paraphrasing...but they had nothing of original plants to begin with ....so you see it really is ok to give opinions about peoples work, but based on facts rather than theories. Not sure how old you are and what experience you have had with cannabis but maybe taking a more polite tack in asking for clarity with specific questions in mind may be a better way to be heard and taken seriously.

I got Nevil and my notes from many years ago written in our hand writing and maybe one day put it up to curb your enthusiasm and put you on a clear path, but for now it seems your theories are fueling new myths as is normal in this industry...and it is amusing at times to see how you all think.

The thing is that words as important as they are, really are nothing against the proof of the seed you are using. So maybe explain projects you are all doing and why with photos , so people follow your work and can add comments to help rather than hinder...as this is what forums are for in the end. Most of you were not around or ever saw plants we used as mothers and fathers...so it is much harder to prove historical references with this situation in fact.

Speaking of things, I have made a new version of G13 widow in seed form ready for testing...so if any of you wish to become testers of this seed then maybe watch the boards as to the details....

While i really do not mind people discussing, it is not so nice to be disrespectful to your hostsite...it reads badly and reflects upon he who writes such material. As i always say, if you got nothing nice to say then say nothing....

all the best Shantibaba

 

[BenPlantin]

A question like this is best answered by the original breeder don’t you think?

Yes.

access to good Colombian strains, Panama strains, Indian, Thai, Afghani, Lebanon etc...versions of Haze were being made without the labels of Haze till they came into the hands of those who made it their passion to find and refine Sativa dominant hybrids. I have smoked plants in Australia that have been grown from landraces and inbreed for decades that are so close to Nev`s Haze A, Haze C and pure female Haze characteristics that it does not surprise me that confusion exists.

IMO Haze is Columbian Gold for the most part.

My speculation is the people preserving the haze were never doing selections just open pollination. If the history is correct on the lineage of what Nev received it was a combination of the best Colombia sativas of the era.

The reason I ask why do hazes not do well back on themselves is im sure i read a quote a few years back where Neville said did say that..

But if some hazes are say landrace Colombian Gold, Punto Rojo, Manga Rosa, Thai, or crosses of those....

How can a good landrace not do well back on itself? since it has already done so for however many generations already to be landrace.
..and how can those good landraces crossed in whatever combination not do well back on themselves with the hybrid vigor factor added in?

 

[skubee]

My speculation is the people preserving the haze were never doing selections just open pollination. If the history is correct on the lineage of what Nev received it was a combination of the best Colombia sativas of the era. So I would assume they were either inbred lines or straight up land races. The way I look at inbred lines and land race genetics is to me they are like the core colors of a color wheel. For example; red, blue, green, yellow. As you combine these together with intention you will get different colors, the longer you combine without intention for example open pollination you will just end up with the color brown. In my opinion the earlier the combinations will result in the best examples of the genetics. As the line is furthered by open pollination without intention the lower the possibility of these truly impressive examples will occur. Hence no one really finding anything close to what Nev found in the early batch of haze compared to what is available today. I would also speculate it would take thousands of seeds to find examples as impressive as what Nev found. I hope my analogy is understandable.

I like that color wheel analogy. If you start with brown you can get close to one if the primary colors, but there will always be a brown tint to it.

 

[draztik]

I like that color wheel analogy. If you start with brown you can get close to one if the primary colors, but there will always be a brown tint to it.

Brown would be representative of every plant that was originally bred into the line. I look at genetic expression like switches and volumes/levels. When you combine two plants to create an F1 each plant lends its genetics into the mix. Some genetic traits are more dominant than others, some are flipped on or off or neutralized, some are lowered or raised in level of expression. Maybe instead of using the color brown as an analogy of the end result of open pollination without selection you could use White Noise. White Noise is every frequency being played at once, it has all of the frequencies in it but with refinement you can remove those other frequencies to create a tone that is pleasant to the ear.

I hope I don't sound too crazy with my analogies haha

 

[CannaFish]

There’s a recent video interview SB and his daughter Sarah back when she was helping out on the website. He says breeding haze is volatile. I’m guessing selection and progeny testing is important.

 

[Pennywise420]

Where’s that video, on YouTube?

 

[musashi]

There are no secrets or mysteries in the MNS camp. Much of it is a written record here. Take the time to read the vast, very informative information available on this site. It is found no where else. Thanks to our braddah @CannaFish for the informative articles illustrating this point. Hazes, we know come in different colors as @draztik describes it- all primarily have the basic sativa building blocks of Thai, Columbian, Mexican or Indian, etc. in varying combinations. People from different parts of the world shared the same dream, helping to create these unique hybrids.
As far as La Nina, it is an excellent example of a haze (hybrid), up there with Mango and Neville’s.

Mu

 

[CannaFish]

Where’s that video, on YouTube?

 

[Pennywise420]

Thank you!

 

[BenPlantin]

Thanks @CannaFish and thanks to @shantibaba for doing that video. Interesting the Critical Mass can handle an EC up to 2.0, Is there a EC feeding chart anywhere for the different MNS strains ?

 

[Fish]

Thanks @CannaFish and thanks to @shantibaba for doing that video. Interesting the Critical Mass can handle an EC up to 2.0, Is there a EC feeding chart anywhere for the different MNS strains ?

Yes a feeding chart or something similar would be extremely useful.

 

[#NightMare#]

My speculation is the people preserving the haze were never doing selections just open pollination. If the history is correct on the lineage of what Nev received it was a combination of the best Colombia sativas of the era. So I would assume they were either inbred lines or straight up land races. The way I look at inbred lines and land race genetics is to me they are like the core colors of a color wheel. For example; red, blue, green, yellow. As you combine these together with intention you will get different colors, the longer you combine without intention for example open pollination you will just end up with the color brown. In my opinion the earlier the combinations will result in the best examples of the genetics. As the line is furthered by open pollination without intention the lower the possibility of these truly impressive examples will occur. Hence no one really finding anything close to what Nev found in the early batch of haze compared to what is available today. I would also speculate it would take thousands of seeds to find examples as impressive as what Nev found. I hope my analogy is understandable.

Actually didn't sam grow like 10'000 females an god knows how many males an selected like 20 from those

 

[bigiron]

different Male and with NL5 clone gone also likely a different Female

 

[59lespaul]

Not sure if this is illegal here but.

Swami Organic Seeds has the 80s NL5/Haze at F6. Ive grown it, and it can have some massive plants, and can take 100 days to finish in some phenos. A bit of variation, but some extremely potent plants to be found. Very strong branching patterns. Church Incense phenos to be found. To potent for many to smoke. Can make many people sick, and very paranoid.

 

[bigiron]

Not sure if this is illegal here but.

Swami Organic Seeds has the 80s NL5/Haze at F6. Ive grown it, and it can have some massive plants, and can take 100 days to finish in some phenos. A bit of variation, but some extremely potent plants to be found. Very strong branching patterns. Church Incense phenos to be found. To potent for many to smoke. Can make many people sick, and very paranoid.

Hello Swami?

 

[Apollo]

Not sure if this is illegal here but.

Swami Organic Seeds has the 80s NL5/Haze at F6. Ive grown it, and it can have some massive plants, and can take 100 days to finish in some phenos. A bit of variation, but some extremely potent plants to be found. Very strong branching patterns. Church Incense phenos to be found. To potent for many to smoke. Can make many people sick, and very paranoid.

Well I never heard about this dude and I just googled Swami organic seeds and their seeds catalog seems like the menu of the most touristic restaurant in Mykonos island.
Has far to many options. I got lost.
What kind of breeding facilities he has ? Or he just crosses with out testing and then sales the seeds for 100 dollars .?

Lets get serious here guys common now..

-SaveTheBrains

 

[59lespaul]

Well I never heard about this dude and I just googled Swami organic seeds and their seeds catalog seems like the menu of the most touristic restaurant in Mykonos island.
Has far to many options. I got lost.
What kind of breeding facilities he has ? Or he just crosses with out testing and then sales the seeds for 100 dollars .?

Lets get serious here guys common now..

-SaveTheBrains

Hes not the only breeder. These people have been breeding weed since the late 60s- early 70s. Many of the old strains Swami has, come from stock smuggled in by the Brotherhood of Eternal Love from the late 60s-late 70s. BOEL were the main suppliers of marijuana smuggled into the USA in the 60s- 70s.. They are also the originators of the LSD/Orange Sunshine. Look up Nick Sands. He was also the first underground chemist to synthisize DMT. He was an original member of BOEL. They have a BOEL festival ever year in San Francisco.
BOEL ere also known as the Hippy Mafia. They were friends with Ken Kesey. Stanley Owsley. Grateful Dead. The HOG Farm. Timothy Leary, and many others.

The guy at SOS is also friends with many of the remaining alive BOEL members. I also wouldnt doubt that the original Sacred Seeds got many their genetics from BOEL. They were also associated with the Hog Farm, and Grateful Dead. And its for sure Sacred Seeds werent smuggling in nearly the amounts of weed BOEL was.


The Brotherhood of Eternal Love was an organization of drug users and distributors that operated from the mid-1960s through the late 1970s in Orange County, California.[3] They were dubbed the Hippie Mafia by the police.[4] They produced and distributed drugs in hopes of starting a "psychedelic revolution" in the United States.

One guy known as the surfboard guy, Mike Hynson was in Jimi Hendrix movie. Rainbow Bridge. He had brought a surfboard from his shop in southern California, where he made surfboards, and it was loaed with Afghani Hash. They showed him cut open the board, and pull out all kinds of hash. He had also been detained at the airport before flight because the cops though he had something but they could never find it. It shows them smoking the hash on film.
Mike was a well known maker of surfboards with psychedelic paint jobs, and an original member of BOEL.

Many of the genetics Swami has are irect genetics from BOEL that were smuggled in from the 70s, and have been maintained or a generation. Many of the guys from BOEL are still alive, and Ive become internet friends with Mike Hynson. One guy from BOEL was on the rn from 1972-015, where he turned himself in, and they ended up not doing anything to him.

There was also a movie made about BOEL. You can think what you wish, its a free country. But the facts are that many of these old genetics are originals form the early 70s-late 70s. Ive grown many of their strains, and while there is variation in some of it. Some of it is stupid strong, and alot of it is extremely long flowering. They also do some breeding with new stains, but the old stuff is the real deal.

Swami got his cuts of The ONE, and Blue Orca from Clackamas Coot. These are hybrids on 1971 Kandahar x 71 Thai. The ONE is more Sativa Dominant, and Blue Orca is Indica dominant. COOT will even give anyone a cu that comes to his place in Oregon, if he has any available. He doesnt charge for cuts. COOT is the originator of both cuts. They have been alive since the early 80s.
He also has a Living Soil Recipe. BuildaSoil. COOT is around 80.

It also wouldnt surprise me that the genetics for Original Haze originated with BOEL.


John Griggs - Brotherhood of Eternal Love, History

belhistory.weebly.com/john-griggs.html

 

[Pennywise420]

Nevil said he believes the Haze seeds he bought were made by an old master breeder. That makes me think BOEL were behind those seeds given the time lines.